#awinewith Josephine Chidinma Okurame
MEET Josephine Chidinma Okurame, Founder of Dr Jowie
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:00):
You are listening to Spark tv, where we bring you daily interviews with real women in business at all stages. I'm your host, Danielle Lewis, and I am so grateful to have you here. So good. Dr. Joey, welcome to Spark tv. I'm so excited to have you here.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (00:18):
It's so good to be here. I'm so excited. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while now, so thank you for having me.
Danielle Lewis (00:24):
Oh my God, of course. Same here. So let's start out by telling everyone who you are and what you do.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (00:32):
So my name is Dr. Joey O. My name, my full name's Josephine. A lot of my friends call me to just call me Dr. Joy. I'm an academic, I used to work at a university as an academic researcher, but also behind that was a very strong passion for business. So I've always had my business brand running whilst I was working as an academic. But then recently I took the bold step to resign my academic physician. Congratulations. That is your reaction. I love that. Do you know what it is? I think a lot of times people are like, oh my gosh, you did what? I was like, if you're going to take business seriously, it's going to get to a point where you're going to have to choose. But my decision wasn't just tied to academic career, distractions and work. It was also tied to being present for my family and the fact that work was taking me away from that. And when you have a deeper why to build your legacy and build your career, it's an easy, I mean, it's an easy answer. So yeah, that's my story a
Danielle Lewis (01:34):
Little bit. I love that so much, and I'm so glad you said that because I think oftentimes we make decisions based on money. Where's the business from a money point of view, and am I hitting all of the Instagram worthy milestones? But it's like, what is actually important to you? Why are you here? Why are you building a business? It's so critical to know that
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (01:55):
And the ability to have that flexibility. I think COVID-19 taught us a lot of things in that your job can be taken away from you at any point in time. And if you're not building something for yourself at this stage, you're literally, but putting yourself in the hands at the mercy of someone else, and that's not a position I want to be when I have kids and I have a family and there's mouths to feed. It is beyond you now. You can't be living from hand to mouth or at the mercy of whether or not they're going to fire you this year or if the budget includes you, if the grant allows for your salary. You just have to get out there and build your own table. That's my stance.
Danielle Lewis (02:33):
Oh my God, I love it so much. And you are so right, and it's so exciting that we live in a time where we can do that. You can access stuff online that you need, and it's not easy. I'm not saying it's easy, but you can do it.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (02:50):
Yeah, yeah. That is incredible.
Danielle Lewis (02:53):
So then tell me, now that you are in business, you have branched out for yourself, what's, what services or what products do you deliver in that business?
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (03:02):
So I own an African Nigerian, specifically Nigerian food catering business where we have bespoke Nigerian authentic flavors. We have been running for a while, but like I said, like a side gig, side hustle. But we're in full force now, and we do a lot of fusion Nigerian meals as well as authentic Nigerian meals just to kind of introduce the flavors into the Australian market and the pals. So it's not too overwhelming so to speak. But yeah, that's one of my businesses. I have a few. There's another, I mean, now that I have the time, I might as well, right?
Danielle Lewis (03:39):
I love it. No, this is so good.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame(03:42):
I love it. And I'm also rebranding my husband's media business into a one-stop shop, like a turnkey social media solution on visibility. I've been lucky to sign a few clients now that are thought leaders and excellence. They're doing great things in their space and in their bubble of expertise, but the world doesn't know about it. And I'm just like, let me help you. Let me put the word out there. I've been doing content creation for a while. I love it. It comes naturally. I know someone said to me, how do you come up with the topics you want to film on? I was like, I have topics. The issue is time, but now I have time and I still have topics, which is a perfect match. So yeah, I've got charcoal and chops on Instagram, and then I've got the visibility lab that is in motion at the moment. So those are my two babies for now. But I have my hands in a few other things, but that's my primary focus.
Danielle Lewis (04:38):
Oh my God, this is so cool. And this is wildly different from your career.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (04:43):
Yes. But remember I did my, and this is the thing, so it always sounds scary. I had four degrees, I have two, four degrees. I'm like, Nope, this is not the future I want. And I keep reiterating, especially for moms, and I know a lot of moms can relate to this, we tend to always plan our family around work. And I'm trying to change that narrative that you can plan work around your family, so you prioritize what matters to you first. And every other thing can fall in between. And I'm on a mission to prove everyone wrong. They say you can't have the career of your dreams and be a mom, but I'm like, you can have the career, career of your dreams and also have the life of your dreams, the family of your dreams. I'm definitely on a mission to prove that that is a thing and working out so far.
(05:31):
So my background is in public health, biomedical sciences, and then I did research in public health as well. So I also did some lecturing in the school of nursing and midwifery. So very, very health related health background, but I worked as a researcher predominantly, so a clinical trials coordinator, a senior research officer, and just collecting data recruitment, a lot of organization, a lot of research that goes into my business for me to be able to source the right ingredients to teach people about the culinary experience. It also goes into obviously the visibility lab where we are actually researching people's niches and trying to put them in that position. And then it goes into my content creation. I have content that I have to research. So it's like all the skills that I developed along the way are finally, it's just beneficial. Now I can see why it makes sense.
Danielle Lewis (06:31):
Oh, I think it's just so important for people to understand. I think sometimes we think that making that switch from Korea to business is a huge leap and wildly scary, which it is. Were you not scared? But so many of the skills that we learn in our corporate careers, transferable, totally transferable. I mean skills that you learn as a mom are transferable into running a business and vice versa, skills that you learn in business sometimes. I love when moms tell me that they use their negotiating skills on the toddlers.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (07:12):
They're the ones that take all of our law degrees that we never got. We have to develop them with those kids.
Danielle Lewis (07:20):
Oh my God, it's so good. And what was that like for you? So we sort of touched on, yes, it's wildly scary, but what was it actually like from you going from academic career to business? Have there been any teething issues along the way?
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (07:37):
I think there is a bit of identity loss. Like what am I am still an academic? Am I still considered an academic? I'm not a lecturer, but I am still a researcher. I still have my title that I earned from graduating with a PhD. That doesn't change who you are. Who you are is deep within, and that identity is something that you create for yourself. It's not by the job that you are in. And I know I'm speaking to whoever's listening to this thinking, I don't want to lose this job because I don't want to lose the title. The title is who You Are that lies within you. It's not tied to a particular job role or opportunity. And I remember saying to myself, oh, how am I going to do this transition? It's going to be so hard. And I was a little bit sad, not a little bit.
(08:23):
I was very sad. Let me not, I was downplaying that a little bit. I was very sad with the whole turnout of events because it felt like I got pushed into a corner where I had to choose between my career and my family, and I'll always pick my kids and my family first. So it was a no brainer, but it was still sad because it felt to me like a death of my career. But then I'm trying to reiterate that it doesn't have to be, and you can choose how that all plays out. So I had to ask myself the question, which was why am I being sad over a role that I'm not really in? How satisfied am I in that position? Am I researching the topic of my dreams? No. Am I able to spend time with my kids? Sometimes I would miss bedtime and I'd come home and they're already asleep because my husband's put them to bed and it takes something out of you.
(09:14):
Trust me as a mom. There's no way. I keep saying, you cannot have job satisfaction when the home front is missing out on you when you come home to sleeping children and you feel like your kids are growing up without you. So as difficult as the transition was and the questions and the doubts, am I crazy? What am I doing? It didn't happen overnight. I've been running this for a while. So I know a lot of, I spoke with a lot of people, and yes, a lot of people do say, congratulations. I have the people that are scared, but I have the people that say congratulations, and I love those people because I don't need your fear right now because
Danielle Lewis (09:49):
We have enough of our own. We don't need anyone adding
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (09:52):
On top. It's all in there. It's trying to replace a six figure salary income with business that I was just kind of like, okay, I'll take an order here. I'll do this, kind of taking it as a joke and now I have to be serious. So I love that there are different people with different stages, but you have to, and I almost feel like for me to then determine what my identity is, this is a very isolating time for me because I don't need the voices of anyone else in my ear apart from the ones that I permit to be in my ear or in my head. So yeah, it is a bit tricky navigating the transition, but it is possible and it's doable. And I know that the long-term benefits are going to be massive. So you might interview me in another year and ask me how I'm going, and then I'll telling you all the great things that has happened so far. So you are part of my beginning, my journey.
Danielle Lewis (10:44):
I love this so much. I just really love that you're shining a light. This is one of the reasons why I love business ownership is because you get to make it up. You get to choose, and I love for you, and I actually went through this, so I had a business for, oh my God, I think it was like 12 years, and I had the same thing of the identity loss, even though I was so excited. Spark is my baby. It's my life's work. It's everything I want to do. But stepping out of that other business, I was like, but that's what everyone knows me for. That's why people ask me to speak at their events and all those things. And I'm like, who am I if I don't? How
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (11:23):
Do you introduce yourself?
Danielle Lewis (11:25):
Yeah, I know I did. Oh my God, it's so funny. I wrote down, I was like, people always say, what do you do? So I wrote a sentence out that I could say You
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (11:34):
Did that. I did that a couple of days ago. I was like, who am I? I can't even say I'm an academic anymore. That's kind of like catfishing. I'm no longer there. I have to write who am I? What still remains? What resonates with me? What is my identity? And that is really, you have to search deep within, I'm a prayerful person, so I pray about everything and I'm like, God, please reveal to me from the depths of my heart who I am. And so I can run with that identity and not what the world has put on me.
Danielle Lewis (12:03):
Yes. I think it's such a beautiful exercise to do as well because I think it helps bridge that gap between, oh my God, I'm not really sure who I am, but this is who I want to be. And the more I say it, the more I'll lean into it and feel like I'm stepping into that new identity.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (12:20):
Beautiful. I love that. I love that so much. That is good.
Danielle Lewis (12:24):
That is good. It's so good. It's so exciting. And also, I'm wildly interested because this is such a business owner thing to do. So you've gone from academic career to now running a business. The businesses are in totally different fields. Yes, the skills are applicable, but one's like social media services and one's catering two wildly different business models as well.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (12:46):
See, that's where the Who am I comes in because that's like, what is this? But even in the catering, food business, whatever business you have, you need visibility. So definitely learning to transfer the skills that I'm learning from this business into this business. And even when I run visibility workshops or if I want to run a training session, they're going to need catering. I've got my people. I love that. Yes. This is so good. I'm really far into the future as to how this is all going to play out. But yeah, it is very different fields. But one thing that is common between both of them is that I'm very passionate about both fields and I want to see them shine, and I know they can shine, and I know that each of them are industries of its own. People focus on one and thrive in it, but I know that I can replicate it across board.
(13:34):
Then on my own personal brand, it's literally living what I'm just sharing with you my purpose, turning my purpose into my passion and stepping away from metrics and KPIs and making my purpose, my legacy. And so I also have that personal brand that I'm building where as someone that came into Australia as a migrant, this is a very big fear. Migrant's already disproportionately affected by some of the blocks and obstacles that they face just by the nature of migration. And to have to walk away from a steady income that pays you regularly that you deserve and you've worked hard to get is something that's really scary. So I'm trying to prove to women, mothers that you can do it. And basically there's so much more fulfillment in passion and purpose than there is in just a paycheck.
Danielle Lewis (14:29):
Yeah, it's so interesting. I feel like the theme of today is so transitional that we're allowed to decide that we want to be something different or pursue something different at any stage in our life. And yes, it's tricky, but you can achieve it. Whether it's when you enter motherhood or whether it's when you're transitioning from corporate to business, there is that period of, oh my God, who am I? But with a little bit of self-reflection, it can definitely be the key to unlocking that higher purpose.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (15:04):
Yeah, and I think your identity doesn't have to be static. You started off as a graduate, you started off as a business owner, you started off as whatever it is. But just like with everything else in life, personal growth is constant. And so you are discovering yourself every year of your life. If you look back to when you were 20, you're definitely not the same person. Heck, I'm glad I'm not the same person. Listen, I'm telling you, girl, some of the things that I was doing at 20, I'm not definitely No, you can relate. No, exactly. So that constant process of growth is inevitable. And so we shouldn't feel tied down. The only regret you're going to have is years later not looking back and knowing that you could have tried, but you didn't.
Danielle Lewis (15:52):
Oh, I love that so much. Yeah, and it's really interesting. I was thinking as you were speaking, I think part of the challenge is when we go from young to primary school to high school, get our first job, I feel like oftentimes from our twenties to thirties, we're just falling into the next thing. We're kind of just doing the next thing, but it's now when we get a little bit older that we get a little bit more self-aware and intentional. And it's almost like because we realize that we can choose, we're like, oh my God, what do I do?
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (16:24):
And that's the thing. I think that's a really good point. The fact that you said, we realized that we can choose, and this is why when I see people on their journey, I see people that are way in the trajectory of things, and there's no up or down. It's just what you are doing now. I've done it before. I can see it. I recognize it. And it's not wrong or right. It's your pathway to embark on and it's your choice to make. But you do get to a point where you can choose, like you said, and I say that because for instance, I mean working in academia as a lecturer is considered white collar job to an extent. It is. It's not blue collar. And I see a lot of people that, some migrants that I know of that are in blue collar jobs thinking, oh, you're so lucky you have this prestigious job at this university and this title and things like that. And I'm like, that's what you think until you get
Danielle Lewis (17:14):
There.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (17:15):
So you will not know until you get there. And that's why I respect every single person's journey. If you are starting off, I've done it. Listen, Danielle, you haven't heard the half of it. I was a makeup artist. I've done hair extensions, installation.
Danielle Lewis (17:29):
Oh, cool.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (17:31):
I have everything under my belt. And I see people coming up and doing those things. Why did you stop? You were so good. I was like, until you get there, you won't understand. So you have to do something for a while to see, how do I feel about this? Am I really fulfilled by this? And I remember when I was resigning from my job, I said to my boss, she's amazing, by the way. I have nothing against her. It's just the way the system is designed. She's a mom as well. So she could really relate. There were lots of tears. So it wasn't like this vindictive, oh, get out of here. It's just how the system's made up. And I remember saying to her, no offense. Yeah, I really respect where you are. And you literally are a mentor, very hardworking, very resilient. But if I can't see myself looking at you where you are now, I want to be there in 10 years. There's a problem. If you look at your boss and you're not thinking, oh my gosh, this is where I want to be in 10 years, you're in the wrong profession.
(18:25):
I see. And I say this because I see how hard, if you know academia, they're always constantly applying for grants and funding
(18:33):
And trying to keep their stuff and things like that. And I'm like, I can't even imagine having to go to bed at night knowing that some of my staff might be fired or might lose a job and not be able to fend for their family. I'm that deep. I'm that person that thinks beyond, oh, you're just my staffer now, and the money's gone. If my staff comes to me with an issue, I take it personal. It's a big thing. And so I was like, I can't even imagine being in your place. And I've thought about it. Is this who I want to be in 10 years? No. So why am I here when the person above me that I should aspire to be, I don't aspire to be. Why am I here?
Danielle Lewis (19:09):
Yes. And it's such a good process to go through. I think in any stage of life, look ahead. What path are you actually on? Where you going? And if you continue that path, is that where you want to end up? Or if you wanted to end up over here, maybe you need to change your path,
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (19:25):
But the fear is real.
Danielle Lewis (19:27):
Oh, yeah.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (19:27):
The fear is real. I mean, even just like I said, I'm in this period of isolation trying to figure myself out, but even just sometimes in my head, it gets in my head and I'm like, in this economy, was this really the smart move? Do you realize how much mortgage is? I have an amazing supportive husband. He's just amazing. He's just like, do what you need to do. I'll pick up where I need to pick up. Not everybody has that. And
Danielle Lewis (19:51):
You have to
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (19:52):
Be realistic with that. And like I said, I didn't just wake up and drop my job. I had a business that's been running. I know it's scalable. I have a passion. I have a personal brand that I've been building. I have things in line, and I have confirmation that this is what I'm meant to be doing, but the fear is still there, even with all of this support system. So if women out there don't have that support system, we need to be the support system for each other.
Danielle Lewis (20:17):
We need to hold
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (20:18):
Each other's hands and walk with whoever is in a place where we once were. If someone is listening and they're like, oh my gosh, I resonate with you. How were you able to do this? Definitely love to have a conversation. Just we have to be each other's village.
Danielle Lewis (20:36):
Yeah, I love that. And I am always surprised, one, I shouldn't be surprised, but how supportive women are, women get it and want each other to succeed. You can ask someone, and it's crazy. You don't even have to actually talk to somebody with the amount of podcasts and social media and people showing up, just spilling their guts on the internet, the blueprints there, tap into that. But you're so right. If they's someone who you aspire to be, I guarantee you they will have a conversation with you.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (21:09):
Yeah, well, if they're like 2 million followers, they might not get you a message,
Danielle Lewis (21:13):
But maybe start next level above you wrap it up.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (21:19):
I mean, just be very realistic.
Danielle Lewis (21:24):
Yes, exactly. Oh my God, I love it so much. But it's so true. Women especially are just so amazingly supportive. I mean, I see that every day in the Spark community, but you look anywhere and you, yeah, I'm always just amazed at how you can just reach out to somebody these days and they'll, maybe they won't have coffee with you, but maybe they'll answer a question or two. Some things.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (21:47):
Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (21:48):
But you've just got to, if you don't ask, you won't get.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (21:51):
Yeah, that's true. That's true. I learned that from someone. I was at a cafe once and I was like, oh my gosh, I love this cafe. I love the way they take their orders in the systems, and it's just, just ask. I was like, huh. Their best kept secret. She was like, what makes you think it's a secret? I was like, but you didn't just ask people for their private information that they worked so hard for. She was like, the only answer you're going to get is a no or yes, it's 50 50. Just ask. And this guy sat with me and ran through the whole thing, and I was like, wow, it works. Just Alex. Wow. Yes, us and you shall receive.
Danielle Lewis (22:22):
Oh my God, you are amazing. This is so good. I could literally talk to you all day. However. However, yes. I always love to wrap up these podcasts with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on your multiple businesses, what would be a piece of advice that you would give to another woman on her business journey?
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (22:46):
Ask for help. A lot of times we are living in this culture where it's like, I don't want to be a bother, but I've learned that people are more willing to help than you think. Ask for help, because it can save you months and months of figuring it out by yourself.
(23:05):
Ask for help because it can save you thousands of dollars spending money where it's not needed. Ask for help because it allows you to learn from people's experiences and not yours. But in saying that, value people's time. I'm one of those people. I do content creation and sometimes I reach out to people that I'd love to collaborate with. And a lot of the times you'd be surprised. People are like, yeah, sure, we can do a collaboration. And I'm like, so I mean how much? And they're like, oh, no, no, no, it's free. I'm like, you put your time though. I am someone that really values someone's time, so if you're not going to take money from me, I'll send you flowers. I'll send you something. Appreciate the fact that people are willing to help you. Don't feel entitled, but ask for help. Definitely.
Danielle Lewis (23:52):
Dr. Joey, you are incredible. Thank you. Thank you
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (23:56):
For having me on your podcast. It's so amazing,
Danielle Lewis (23:58):
And we are absolutely circling back in a year. I want to hear all of the good news.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (24:03):
Yes, yes. I can't wait to share. I can't wait. It's definitely going to happen.
Danielle Lewis (24:07):
Oh my God, you are incredible. Thank you so much again for sharing your time and wisdom with the Spark Community.
Josephine Chidinma Okurame (24:12):
Oh, thank you. Thanks, Danielle. I really appreciate it.
Danielle Lewis (24:16):
That wraps another episode of Spark tv. Shout out to Spark TV sponsor IP Australia for their amazing support of the Spark Podcast and women in business. And if no one tells you today, you've got this.
✨ Thank you to IP Australia for supporting the SPARK podcast and women in business ✨
