#awinewith Avril Dargie
MEET Avril, Founder of My Driving Online.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:07):
Amazing. Avril, welcome to Spark tv.
Avril Dargie (00:10):
Hello, Danielle.
Danielle Lewis (00:12):
Thank you so much for being here.
Avril Dargie (00:15):
Oh, it's a pleasure to be here.
Danielle Lewis (00:17):
So look, let's start out with telling everybody who you are and what you do.
Avril Dargie (00:22):
Okay. My name's Avil dgi. I'm a driving instructor and an educator, a driving examiner and former school leader and teacher. What I do is train and teach, really, and what I'm doing, my project at the moment is to make sure that I've got all of my driving training content online so that parents, supervisors, students, and driving instructors can access that training to use during the time that they're doing their 75 to one 20 hours of practice so that we're embedding the correct habits and skills and so that supervisors are feeling
Danielle Lewis (01:18):
Safer. Yeah, and so are you doing that through an online platform that then these parents and educators and teachers and driving instructors will be able to access?
Avril Dargie (01:28):
Absolutely. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (01:30):
Awesome. And so how's that been like to put together? Tell us.
Avril Dargie (01:36):
Well, yeah, it's a story. How many hours? You got?
Danielle Lewis (01:43):
All the hours for you tell me. I want to know. I want to know.
Avril Dargie (01:46):
Okay. Well, I'm getting older and I'm in my 40th year as a driving instructor.
Danielle Lewis (01:53):
Awesome.
Avril Dargie (01:54):
Yeah, the story is, it's a long one. I started when I was 19 and I was the youngest driving instructor, and that was at a time of fairly big social change. So it's a story of women at that time that I find a common, I guess amongst us. The average age for the first baby then was 21, and I had my son at 19. I got married and had a child, and that wasn't uncommon for the time, but it was pre anti-discrimination, just pre anti-discrimination time. So I worked in retail fashion and at that time after having my son, I wanted to go back to work, but I couldn't get a job because I had to fess up that I had a child and I was unemployable basically at that time. So it seemed like the worst thing that could ever possibly happen, but it turned out to, in reflection on my life, it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
(03:04):
We went on in Australia to have 10 years of zero birth rate. So I said it was 21 average age, 10 years later was 31, the average age for the first baby. So it was a time of social change, but I needed to look at a situation where I didn't look elsewhere for a job. I needed to find something. And I turned to my father, who'd been a driving instructor since 1962 in the uk, and we always laughed at him and made fun of him. So we'll never do something like that. And I had to then turn to him and say, dad, do you think I could be a driving instructor? Could you help me out with that? So I then went and did some training and he mentored me. He's 87, he worked till he was 82. We're still having professional conversations along the way.
(03:56):
That's amazing. Yeah, that's the story of me moving into a training environment and went on to do two degrees in adult education and vocational education in the early nineties when the vocational competency-based training was just coming into Australia, and it was the outset of the certificate system that we've got now, then another degree to go on to teach in schools and be a counselor, school counselor in schools. So that's kind of the journey that I've been on. I always stayed current with my driving instruction and last year I retired at the end of last year for a reason because in October I had an epiphany. All I know, some people like to say an epi fanny all the year elevens who are my favorite group, of course, 16, 17, they're my people. I love 'em. They were coming to me saying this, I'm having a driving test next week driving.
(05:10):
And I'll go, oh, that's fantastic. Tell me what's your first responsibility as a license holder? Tell me what a hazard is. What system are you using on the approach to a hazard? We know in urban areas, every 30 seconds you are managing a hazard. And they had complete blanks. Every single one of them drew a blank. And it brought all this understanding to me that parents supervisors were, and that they had always told me that they felt unsafe in the environment that they were in, which is, and I absolutely understand that they don't have dual controls, they don't use mirrors. They're really out of control. And in a moving and hazardous environment, they're also worried that they're passing on bad habits. And I can tell you as a driving instructor that yes, they're,
Danielle Lewis (06:10):
I'm just reflecting on my own learning to drive situation. And I'm like, yes, there are a few bad habits passed on.
Avril Dargie (06:17):
Yes. And the driving lessons become sometimes not learning the correct way, it's undoing what's been done so that you can put that foundation back in place, which is unfortunate and it's costly as well. So that's not ideal. And also knowing the industry and the certificate for in driving instruction is leaving a big gap between for work readiness for new instructors. And we have lots of new instructors coming into the industry and there's a gap in there around their own driving. And often it doesn't even touch on teaching and learning in that environment. So I realized in my epiphany one morning last October, I woke up and went, why haven't I done this? Because I could be helping lots of people by putting all of my content online, get it out there because there are barriers for other people accessing training, whether they live in regional areas, if there's financial barriers for them as well, and this way, that would be fantastic.
(07:37):
So I talked to people in the education department, they're really keen avil, go do it because last year, as I said, with my year elevens, I ended up teaching on the whiteboard, a lot of driving theory that had not been taught during the time with their parents or during their driving lessons. I felt because I care and love them, I felt that these were country kids and country kids get killed on country roads and there was something that I could do that might be able to help that situation. So there was a lot of conversation and still is about, okay, well how do we bring this into schools? And that was put into place, hopefully for next year we can take it to the next stage. But as I started looking through it, I realized that it was multifaceted. And if you didn't bring all the stakeholders on board, then I wasn't really achieving the maximum benefit for the maximum number of people. So bringing on the driving instructors and the parents, all the supervisors and the learners, not just let's talk to the learners because the learners, when you are learning, you can only take on so much information and then you've got to transfer or at least have an argument with your parent about, but Avril said, do it this way.
(09:14):
That really doesn't happen. It doesn't work. And so those relationships are often very strained in the car. Understandably so. That was the beginning of this birth of my driving online and the initiative that I'm putting forward at the moment. Hopefully my launch is in two weeks. I know I was saying before I'm middle. I'm still in the middle of the hard part that last little bit at the end. So yeah.
Danielle Lewis (09:51):
What's been the biggest challenge for you building it out?
Avril Dargie (09:55):
Yes. Well, my biggest challenge, interestingly enough, when you do something and it the back of your hand is to find that and write it out and make sure that learning comes out in a different format. So it's not as simple as I'm going to put somebody in the car and I'll just teach them something. Because there were different audiences. It needed to be put forward in a way that was an easy step by step, easy to follow process and very, very clear. So I think that was a big challenge for me, making sure I know my stuff backwards and I'm a teacher, I'm used to program writing, but making sure I could bring that stuff to the surface because I've been doing it for so many years, it's so embedded.
Danielle Lewis (10:57):
Oh, totally. And even just the process of sitting down and getting it out. If you are more of a hands-on teacher, I find that too sometimes when people write books, they know the content, but actually just sitting down and delivering it in a way where somebody will understand, oh, course creators, that idea of, yeah, you could just show up and speak about it for hours, but actually sitting down and stepping it out in a way that many audiences will understand is super challenging. Yes.
Avril Dargie (11:30):
Yep. It was extremely, that's been at least one challenge. And really, if I line that up against what the parents and supervisors tell me, it's exactly the same thing. Because they're driving has become so embedded, our processes become unconscious. And that's why they find it so difficult to unpack the steps that they take to get from A to B and give those directions and instructions in time so that a learner who is taking that information on slowly can manage and follow those instructions in time before they crash the car. Whereas when I'm teaching, I not only have all the controls, I can drive the car from my side if I want to. I'm reading the road way ahead, the hazards and can give those instructions in so much time that the learner has a chance to start building those habits. So it's similar issue. The other issue that I've had, and although as a teacher I've had to deal with technology and making and editing little videos and so on at different times of my career, oh my gosh, the technology and putting it all together and everything that happens around it is this a different insurance that I need.
(13:10):
So I've had to call in people to help me, obviously because it was too big, way too big a task for me to manage. And although I've done a lot of the footage, I've got educators working on lovely little videos, and we know that learners can only manage three minute videos. If it's longer than three minutes, it's too much. So I've had to break it down all the little aspects of the driving process and what they need to do to be safe. I've had to break it down and make it a very, very logical sequence so that they can take that on board.
Danielle Lewis (13:53):
And that's really interesting point though that you mentioned around it becoming bigger than you expected and having to call in the experts. I think that's really interesting. A lot of times as business owners, we just think we're solving a problem. We just know that we have the expertise to solve a problem. And what there could be a business model that we can wrap around that, which is always good, but you are right. Sometimes it does get a little out of control. And depending on what industry you're in, you do need to leverage people that are in your network or outside of your network to bring that expertise in and make sure that you're doing everything the right way. And that extends not only from the business you're in, but business in general. Not all of us are accountants or lawyers or anything and know any of that side. So bringing in experts, I think whilst maybe we don't expect it in the beginning, I actually think that that is one of the important parts of business is to understand where your gaps are and bring in people that can help.
Avril Dargie (14:51):
Absolutely. And there were plenty of gaps
Danielle Lewis (14:56):
Though.
Avril Dargie (14:57):
Yeah. I've got my expertise and I was juggling so many things, and I'm happy to use, I know what my strengths are, I'm happy to use my strengths. And I was then very happy to bring other people on. And I guess the other challenge of that is that it's completely, that has been a massive drain because this has not been a cheap process by any means. And there's lots of things that I didn't necessarily foresee, but it felt like a baby that needed to be born. And I was willing to do whatever it took to make sure that it reached the people that I believe that it will be very helpful to. And the industry, I've taken it to industry, I've taken it, run it with students, and they're certainly onboard and see the benefit. See the benefit to themselves. So yeah, that make a difference.
Danielle Lewis (16:08):
Yeah, and it's interesting that validation of the industry and learners and potential future customers essentially kind of makes you feel a little bit better about spending the money when you are still funding it.
Avril Dargie (16:21):
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And at the end of the day, it's something that I've done. I'm nearly 60, I'm in my 40th year in the industry. If I've done something that at the end of the day will ensure that someone lives as a result of putting what they've learned in the training because they're not only, it's all of the tips and tricks for the supervisors. So my first marketing to supervisors and parents first up, because if they can use that 75 to 120 hours in real learning that is going to provide them with a system for safe driving, then I know that those young people are going to go on, or anyone who takes it on are going to go on to be safer drivers. Because a safe driver, everyone likes to think that they drive really well and they'll tell you they drive really well, then they'll tell you they had a new miss, it was a new miss and that, and it's always somebody else's fault. And as I say to my learner, drivers, good driver, they don't have near misses because they're using a system to ensure they're always at the right place at the right speed and navigate every single hazard. And we are only ever as good as our last decision.
Danielle Lewis (18:02):
That seems like a metaphor for life as well.
Avril Dargie (18:05):
Yes, exactly. So we try to get that through, and if I can get that through to more young people before they go on the road, and parents, so parents are also getting the benefit of that instruction as well. And that system that they may not have looked at at all, like my year elevens, they may have been introduced to it, which I'm sure they were, but it wasn't embedded in their learning. So we want that unconscious driving habit to be in place. If you lined up a school of kids and said, okay, well let's look at the road to all the kids on the oval, bring your parents. Now we are going to sacrifice a couple of these kids to the great God of road crashes, which ones should go? Well? None should go. So we want zero. And the 19-year-old, 19 to 25-year-old age group is actually faring very well in the rot to at the moment in comparison to what they have in the past. They're actually leading the way, but can they ever farewell if there's anyone, everyone's life is valuable. And interestingly enough too, the 40 to 49 age group is actually leading the way in crashes.
Danielle Lewis (19:36):
Oh, wow. Really?
Avril Dargie (19:38):
Yeah. So it's a 40 to 49 year age group. That's my target audience at the moment. And back in when I first became a driving instructor, it was really the Wild West in Australia. If you can get a car moving and drive it, you can drive. And they'd ring up and go, they just need some parking. And then they're off. You go, oh no. And the road pole was terrible.
Danielle Lewis (20:12):
I kind of feel like that was my experience. Nobody expected me to pass my driving test and I did. I was like, oh dear,
Avril Dargie (20:22):
That's
Danielle Lewis (20:22):
Not great, is it? Hopefully I've improved since then. I'm sure with practice,
Avril Dargie (20:29):
I'm sure you have. Experience does help us. Yes.
Danielle Lewis (20:33):
But it's so interesting, isn't it? I mean, it's something that, it's such an important thing that we do at a time in our life that never gets really revisited. And it's just this little blip on the radar that happens. But you are right. It's something that we do as adults every day, and it's serious. We are putting other people and our own and our family's lives at risk. It's one of those things, you kind of look at a business that you are creating and go, why has nobody done this before?
Avril Dargie (21:05):
That's kind of what I thought to myself. I thought, why haven't I done this before? I'm an educator, I've got all the tools, but it was my beautiful year elevens that just woke me up. And it was an overnight thing. I obviously went to sleep thinking about, I wasn't thinking about this particular, it was just, this is a problem. Here's a problem, there's a problem that's a problem. And I was concerned about it. And I went to sleep and I woke up the next morning and it was almost the whole thing was formulated for me. And I thought, why haven't I done this before? It was, it was just waiting to be born. And I resigned from the department at the end of the year after talking to people in the department, the education department, it went avil, why haven't you done this before? Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (21:55):
Wow. So what's next for you? So we're launching in a couple of weeks. What is the next step for you? Marketing? You mentioned reaching out to a couple of the different groups. What's going to be the next priority for you?
Avril Dargie (22:10):
Well, the marketing plan is already in place. Like I said, I have reached out to the people who know their stuff and that's all in place ready to go. I'm working in partnership with an organization that's a charity called Get Home Safe to put a curriculum around it and change it slightly for schools and get home safe. And my organization will work together to present it to schools, will do a pilot term one next year. And then there are ministers who are very interested in looking at driver education in schools. So because of my teacher background, I can put a unit around it so that students can gain points towards their education certificate.
Danielle Lewis (23:18):
Oh, that's smart. Awesome.
Avril Dargie (23:21):
And that's what the conversations were last year when I was leaving. Like I said, it morphed into something that I feel needed to happen because I mentor a lot of new instructors and their experience, they're just, I'm not at a meeting next week. There's 50 of them. And their experience is that they do this course is certificate four. They get handed a certificate and say, oh, well you're now a driving instructor, and then they're thrown into the world in isolation. They were in isolation. No. Whereas in my world, I had access to my dad and peer learning and I would go, as a teacher, I would mentor, and I also do peer learning. I'd sit in the back of cars with instructors as well. And there's never a time that I haven't been in a peer learning mentoring situation that I haven't picked up something from the person that I'm supposedly mentoring, but I haven't picked up something from them.
(24:29):
It's always when you teach someone, it's always a two-way street. So these instructors are very, very keen to get it on board. And I think if their students are also using it, they can use it to supplement the learning that they're teaching. And some of them are just hanging out because they've had no instruction on how to teach or learn. They're coming to me going, alright, now I've got some driving skills, because their driving skills weren't touched either. So if you can't drive to a learner standard, you can't possibly teach to that standard and they're not getting that good oil and they're having to come afterwards and get that up to speed. So yeah, I guess that's next for them. I'm hoping that they can all work together and take something from it whilst they need to. Yeah, so it's a professional development for driving instructors.
Danielle Lewis (25:34):
That is so amazing. I love it. Can't wait. I was just thinking, I was like, I can't wait to do this all again in 12 months and see how it all went. I just think this is just such an important idea and you are doing it from a place of so much experience leveraging technology to get this information in the hands of people and bring together the people that need to be brought together. Again, shocked that it doesn't exist. So I just am so, yeah. So I dunno what the word is. Amazed. You're incredible. It's awesome.
Avril Dargie (26:11):
Thank you. And incredible. I've got a lot of help around me now that I needed that I hadn't envisaged that I would need, but I have a great women's network and people have come out of the woodwork and keep me on track, a range of things, everything I need help for, they're there.
Danielle Lewis (26:36):
Oh, that is awesome. And I love that about women's networks. We often, as women in business or owners, we are a little isolated and a little crazy that we think we can change the world. And so it's so amazing when we do have other women come together to support us. It's incredible.
Avril Dargie (26:56):
Yeah. Oh yes, I still have moments of imposter syndrome. You think what? And then I look at it and think, what are talking about? Where did that come from? And often that is from, as you said, working in isolation
Danielle Lewis (27:12):
And
Avril Dargie (27:13):
It's hard. Yep. You've got to get a really strong mindset and knowing that there's also going to be a lot of negativity coming back and knowing and getting not a positive mindset, just grounding yourself and understanding that what you're doing is right for you and the people that you are there to serve and just sit with it, run with it. But it's not easy. But everyone, I think doing this sort of thing will experience those difficulties at some point.
Danielle Lewis (27:51):
Absolutely. And it's unfortunate, but it's true. And I think I made that comment before we started recording. I was like, I don't know when it does get easy, it's sort of, I know personally every milestone I reach something, there's a new challenge to overcome or a new thought that pops into my mind. I think, like you said, where did that come from? I've been doing this for over a decade. Where did that come from? So you're so right. Grant that, and I like what you said too, as it doesn't have to be a positive mindset. I think sometimes we see all of the Instagram memes and it's like, ah, no, some days are just shit. And we do. So I love that you said actually, it's more of a grounding mindset and really look, think about why this is right for you and how you're impacting the people and the community that you serve. I think that's awesome. Now, we could talk all day, but the last question for you, so reflecting on your time building this business, what would be a piece of advice that you would give another female founder or woman in business who is also on this journey?
Avril Dargie (29:12):
I would say surround yourself with people who love your idea and want to work alongside you. Get some help. If you need help seek help. Don't do it in isolation. That's going to be a pretty rough road. And I would also say you don't need to know everything that know your strengths and you don't need to beat yourself up about your weaknesses because your weaknesses are somebody else's strengths. And so leverage everyone's strengths if wherever possible.
Danielle Lewis (29:54):
I love that. You are so right. I know there's oftentimes, we as women in business, whether we live in a city, whether we live regionally, wherever we're located, whatever kind of industry we're in, sometimes we do fall into that trap of isolation and feeling alone. But I think like this, right? You and I are world's a part, and we can jump on video and share our experiences. And I think we're so lucky that we live in a time where there's other women out there who just want to help other women succeed.
Avril Dargie (30:26):
Yeah, and I love this Danielle, and thank you for the opportunity to have my chat. It's fantastic.
Danielle Lewis (30:35):
Oh no, I'm so impressed by what you are building, and as I said, in 12 months, we're doing this again. I want to hear all of the updates. It's incredible. So thank you for sharing your time and your wisdom with the Spark community. Really appreciate you.
Avril Dargie (30:51):
Thanks Danielle.
✨ Thank you to IP Australia for supporting the SPARK podcast and women in business ✨
