#awinewith Anna Oliver
MEET Anna, Founder of Anna Oliver Psychology.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:07):
So good. Anna, welcome to Spark tv. I'm so excited to have you.
Anna Oliver (00:13):
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Danielle Lewis (00:15):
I know fellow WA girl. I don't always get to speak to people on the same time zone, so I'm very excited about that. And you have wine. Cheers.
Anna Oliver (00:24):
Cheers. Rose Grenache something. Something from Vino Mofo.
Danielle Lewis (00:28):
Oh nice. I love Vino mofo. It's so good, isn't it? Hashtag they should sponsor this podcast. I know. I love that. So good. Well, let's get started with telling everyone who you are and what you do.
Anna Oliver (00:42):
Yep, sure. So I'm Anna Oliver. So my business is Anna Oliver Psychology. So I'm just a solo little lady in a rural town of Lehman's, which is three hours north of Perth. I think the population here is like 300, 600 when it's holiday makers. Yes, yes.
Danielle Lewis (01:04):
Oh my God. Okay, hold on. I have been complaining about 30,000 people in Kalgoorlie and
Anna Oliver (01:10):
You live. Oh my God,
Danielle Lewis (01:12):
Stop it. I was like, I like, oh my God, my life is over 300 people. Are you kidding me?
Anna Oliver (01:19):
But hey, we made the decision. We chose to live here. We love it. So started up my private practice about three years ago because there's not any sort of psychological support in any sort of surrounding towns. I think there's a psychologist in Donga, but you're looking at another sort of 90 ks North. So I saw Site, Lehman, Greenhead, dream Bay, those sorts of clients will come and see me. And then I'll do telehealth for Caru, Moura Perth, just anywhere really. I can sort of offer that support to anyone. So I work with predominantly adults at the moment, but I do work with quite a few adolescents and the odd child, so I don't see too many. That's by case. By case. That's not my caliber, but I had a few moms in the beginning, will you help? And I was like, oh, okay, that's right. As know it's not my speciality. And they're like, that's fine. So they weren't too young, they were still eight or nine. So I was like, yeah, yeah, I can work with that. I'm still seeing them today. So that's really good. That's awesome.
Danielle Lewis (02:23):
So how long have you been doing this?
Anna Oliver (02:27):
Yeah, so private practice, three years. But how long have I been in this sort of industry? Yeah, how long have I been a psychologist for?
Danielle Lewis (02:36):
Forever.
Anna Oliver (02:37):
Six years. But then being in this industry while you're studying and stuff. Since early twenties, I guess. So 10 years or something. Wow. Yeah. So what have I done? I worked at a youth center in Perth and did subcontract into a high school. I then worked with Holyoke Drugs and alcohol in Midland for a bit, which was awesome. And then I was at a private practice in Fremantle for a while, and then I actually completely burnt out and I was like, no, never again. I'm not doing psychology. I'm done. I'm out. Did a complete career, well not career, but just a job shift. My beautiful sister-in-Law has a food company and I was like, can I just work with you for a bit? And we're planning to move to this beautiful town of Lehman. So we moved here and I just was very, very lucky and privileged to just because there's not much job opportunities here.
(03:33):
So we were like, just get here and I'll just make a baby and then I'll be busy with a baby. But things didn't happen straight away. So I was like, okay. So I just had all this time to do my own journey, my own healing stuff. And then I was like, wow, let's start a practice. And then I'm my own boss. I call the shots, I can do my own thing, which I think it's awesome that it's here, but it's a shame in some ways because I'm sort of like, oh, I should have done this years ago. I would've, I think really thrived years ago, I think. Yeah, just some of the places I worked for, just that pressure of an employer and I've got that people pleasing and I'll just go the extra mile kind of template just meant that I would just burn myself out basically.
Danielle Lewis (04:21):
Wow. It's really interesting, isn't it? I think that that's something amazing about being in your own business is look, absolutely. People who run their own businesses get burnt out, happens to the best of us from time to time, but at the end of the day we do have a little bit more control over the way we structure things and we do have a little bit more freedom and flexibility to change things if they're not working for us versus being in an employment situation. It's really interesting, even just thinking about business model design. I've been listening to a lot of podcasts about that lately and just thinking about your personality type and if you're someone who really thrives one-on-one, or if you're not, someone thrives one-on-one and you prefer big group things or if you like the marketing side of things versus client delivery, something really just thinking about who you are as a person, what works for you. I think businesses are this amazing vehicle to create something that actually works for us and supports the life we want to live.
Anna Oliver (05:26):
Definitely. And that was part of our whole plan of moving up here was we were like, how can we work smarter instead of harder? And I think from the models that I was working in companies, it was billable hours. So it was like, see six, seven clients a day, five days a week. And I'm like, that's going to burn anybody out.
Danielle Lewis (05:50):
Whereas
Anna Oliver (05:51):
Here it's sort of like I can pick my niche, I can decide who's going to be, and also I'm not right for everyone. I'm not going to say I'm a specialist for everyone. And that's where you can pick and choose as well, as well as going well, what do I enjoy and what am I really good at and what is enjoyable essentially. And then you do pick clients that are a bit more challenging and then you upskill yourself. But yeah, and I think too with my business, there's so much capacity to do more. It's just finding the time and the energy I guess. I feel like I can be quite creative and I'll have all these ideas and I'm like, yeah, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this. And then I'm like, oh, I'm too overwhelmed. I dunno where to start. And then just I don't do anything. But I think, yeah, there's a lot of creativity you can put into this industry and in different avenues of income because working individually with clients day in and day out, it can be quite draining. I wouldn't be able to do individual work full time. I'd have to break it up, whether that's mentoring or coming up with a training program or I've got big dreams about a woman's wellness retreat or something. Just something else that's
Danielle Lewis (07:13):
Come in that sounds so good.
Anna Oliver (07:16):
Just something where you're not in such a professional role and you just, yeah, I just love that sort of creativity side
Danielle Lewis (07:25):
Because surely it's hard not to take things home. So I have a therapist and I love therapy. I think I'm
Anna Oliver (07:36):
The best.
Danielle Lewis (07:37):
Therapy's the best. Oh my God. Okay, let's just have that conversation. Who should go to therapy? Everybody,
Anna Oliver (07:42):
Everyone, everyone. I'm just such an ambassador for therapy. I love it so much.
Danielle Lewis (07:47):
And it's really interesting. So I started therapy with an ex-boyfriend. So we were in a long-term relationship and he really struggled with mental health issues, which put a strain on the relationship. So that was kind of the Kickstarter for me going to therapy. But I've stayed with that same lady since forever and still go to her. And it is really interesting. Now I see it as an athlete has a nutritionist and a therapist and a coach and this and that. And I feel like as, so I think about it in two ways. I think about it as being a business owner and being a person trying to exist in life. And I think, oh
Anna Oliver (08:34):
Definitely
Danielle Lewis (08:36):
You need people around you. You need experts and coaches and help in all of these different areas. And I think that the mental game of life and business is so difficult and important. Why wouldn't you have a therapist even if you are not, I think it's too many people associate it with you have a problem, so you need to go to a therapist.
Anna Oliver (08:58):
Yeah, you have a mental health issue or you've been diagnosed with something and that's the time you go. But I'm like, no, go for. You're in a crossroad, you don't know you, you're not feeling it with your job. Go do some value alignment stuff. The biggest change of my life was I went to my last company before I quit site. It was a very lovely opportunity. I won a competition to go do Date with Destiny, which Tony Robbins.
Danielle Lewis (09:28):
Oh cool.
Anna Oliver (09:30):
It was awesome. But that was all about values and value alignment and it was just like there's so much you can do and you've got psychologists out there that specialize in certain things, but yeah, relationship issues or not sure what to do with your career or just life improvement, why not go and just be like, I'm actually pretty happy, but how can I make things even better? Or my mum really pisses me off. Why is that? And they'll be like, okay, well your childhood. And then they'll be like, oh shit, why that can, there's so much.
Danielle Lewis (10:10):
Yeah, and one of the biggest things I love is the person asks you questions that nobody else in your life would ask you. Well, it depends on your partner and your family and your friends and all that kind of stuff. But I just found there's been no one in my life that will have that level of conversation with me and push me to actually care about what my values are and question what I want out of life. And I'm a recovering people pleaser as well and really figure out if the decisions I'm making actually do align with what I want or if I'm making them to please somebody else. I just find that the level of conversation you can have with somebody who has learned about your history but is also objective is just next level. It's so cool.
Anna Oliver (11:09):
Yeah, and I think especially because I think society in general, we just have that mindset of keeping up with the Joneses and this is how you do life. You do school, you do uni, you get a partner, you get married, you have kids, you have a career, you get the house, you get. I'm not saying that's everyone and a lot of us are privileged to have that or whatever, but I think a lot of people are unhappy and it's not because they necessarily have depression or anxiety. I'm actually, the way society operates isn't necessarily healthy and maybe you actually need to live in a different way. And that's kind of why we moved was because we were like, we don't like the hustle and bustle anymore. We want the option to go back, which is great. All of our friends and family are there, but we like the idea of slow paced living presence, just chill time to just reflect. But I think, yeah, a lot of people wouldn't know that that's why they're upset or that's why they're in pain or that's why they're anxious until maybe they decided to go and actually explore things like values.
Danielle Lewis (12:14):
So is there a way to bridge the gap for people when we talk about values? Are there exercises or questions that somebody could ask themselves to just start diving in if they haven't taken the leap to talk to a psychologist yet?
Anna Oliver (12:32):
Yeah, definitely. I mean obviously you can do it as simple as just write down your values obviously, which I'm sure we've all done those team builders or team break the ice things at some team building exercise, but it's going a bit deeper than that. So I guess you would have, let's say write 10 values down and then it's, that's a very superficial level I guess it's trying to go a bit deeper of being what would life look like if say, one of mine is freedom. So before obviously knowing that obviously I didn't feel free in my life. So then it's like what would life look like? So it's getting a little bit deeper into that. And then I guess it's going through with each value and getting a bit deeper around what would life look like? How would life be different? How would I be different? It's like you kind of going down a rabbit hole of just peeling back all the layers. Would you even still be where you are if you actually implemented those values? And then I guess scaling them back. I mean 10 values is great, but we probably can't live authentically with 10. So then scaling it back to what's my three, what's my top, my top three to five or whatever. And then sort of scaling on like that. But yeah, look, there's lots of good stuff on Google as well.
Danielle Lewis (13:57):
And I wonder too, how much we would write down things that we think we're supposed to say. Sometimes we're having somebody that can actually facilitate with you and be there with you and ask you and question why something is already important to you is why I think it's so helpful. Having somebody else there that understands what you're going through.
Anna Oliver (14:23):
Well that's it. Because the first time you do the values will be completely different to once you've broken that all down, explored it all because there's all, like you said, the first time you do it, there's all these deep seated reasons as to why you've chosen money. Okay, well we all would love money. But then you break it down, it turns out that it's like, oh, well my dad, all he cared about was money and he came from nothing and built it up, so I've got to do the same. You're like, whoa, that went from money to this. So it's act, is it about money or is it actually acceptance from your dad? So it's quite interesting. Yeah, how deep it can go.
Danielle Lewis (15:03):
Oh my god, that's full on, isn't it? So how did you go? It's isn. Oh my god, I found this into a therapy session. We have wine. It's okay.
Anna Oliver (15:11):
Yeah. Yes, yes.
Danielle Lewis (15:14):
How did you go from working for someone? Obviously going through that burnout, going through that healing process, but then becoming a business owner. So I am sure the working from somebody else to then working for yourself whilst it's afforded you the opportunity to be more flexible and more free. I'm sure going into business for yourself was a learning curve.
Anna Oliver (15:38):
Oh, massive. I was like how to start a business?
Danielle Lewis (15:43):
Google, thank you. Thank you. Business coach. Yes,
Anna Oliver (15:46):
Exactly. And especially for psychologists, it's one thing, oh yeah, cool. I was like, oh, I made a business name tick, I'm done for today, but you've got to then look at Medicare billing codes. So it was wrapping my head around that. Then it was sort of like, what do I even say about myself? And then it's that confidence and imposter syndrome. So I mean I think we all struggle with that, but I feel like that's something I've really struggled with. Never feeling like you're giving enough or knowing enough, which now in hindsight I'm like, whoa, way too much pressure on myself. I'm a human at the end of the day. I never am going to know everything. So it was just a slow burner of just being like, okay, I want templates for gps, I want templates for invoices, I want. And in the beginning I literally was doing everything for myself, so I still am, but I didn't have practice software.
Danielle Lewis (16:50):
So
Anna Oliver (16:50):
I've got practice software now, which I know that there's way more cool things it does. I really need to sit down and be like, how do I use you? But the main thing I'm using now is it just does your bookings. It automates text messages to clients to just remind them the notes are electronic, whereas before I was sitting there, I'll just get my diary out and just so time consuming going into Dropbox and yeah, it was daunting. But again, I was lucky just to sort of have the time and the space to be like, I'm going to do a little bit of this today and then I'll have a break or I'm going to get a bit of inspiration, do a little bit more. But I feel like once that drive gets in, then I get really excited and then I feel like, yeah, and then I went and visited and then I went and visited the GPS in dur, which Perth people probably don't have time to do.
(17:47):
So them and then it was a waiting game and you put advertising, which was basic, just like in the local rags, you've got the Cray towers in and the snag island and Leman putting that in waiting. So good. Yeah. And then it's just mean the main thing, obviously majority of people come through the mental health care plan, which you need to go through your gp. So it was just waiting and it was probably a month and I got my first referral and then it kind of just came in quite consistently after that. And then it was just steady and that was nice because yeah, the last thing I'd want to go from is nothing to full on. But yeah, it just meant you can kind of pick your own time and day and be flexible. And now I'm a mom, so I'm much more, my time is much more constricted I guess. It's not as easy just to be a bit free flowing. But yeah, I think being a mom adds another layer of confidence. I don't know, I'm just a bit more, let's just do it. Get in, get out, do it.
Danielle Lewis (18:50):
I mean it's so funny there is that saying if you want something done, give it to a mom. They will find the time, they'll make it happen. They will just fit it in amongst moms are just super women, so much respect.
(19:07):
And you mentioned imposter syndrome and I think it's something that, I don't know, I really feel like it's something that's come up a lot just recently in the last couple of years. I don't know whether we called it something different or we weren't talking about it as much if we were all just burying our feelings in the past. But I do feel like it's a topic that is really on everyone's minds and I guess now we have a label for the way that we are feeling. Is there anything that you did to work other than giving yourself a kick up the bum and saying, hang on a second, this is not right. Was there anything that you did to try and help yourself, I guess feel those feelings and do it anyway and push forward with the business?
Anna Oliver (19:49):
Yeah, so I am someone that's struggled with anxiety my whole life anyway, so you've got, but I mean I was just someone that always soldiered on. So anxiety for me, it's a third arm. I'm like, ah, anxious today. Cool, you're coming
Danielle Lewis (20:05):
To, don't worry. Yeah,
Anna Oliver (20:07):
No worries, we're just going to do it anyway. So the anxiety was nothing new, which of course is always there for anyone starting a new business. And I guess with the imposter syndrome, I had it with other companies as well. Some companies were very nurturing and kind and very good supervision and others were much more like, if you don't know it, figure it out and you'd be like, so I guess starting my own thing, I think initially I just sort of said, look, just put it out there. And I think me what helped me feel safe, not safe, but felt contained a bit when I was advertising was be very clear of the clients you work with and very clear with the clients that you don't, because that was going to help alleviate some anxiety. I was like, what if the GP refers this person or what if they ring me up and they want to, should I take them on? And it was like just be so blatantly obvious. Yeah, I think that's my model with anything with my business is you think you don't need to say it, say it. So in an email, these are my work. I'm very, very boundary. So boundaried and I have to be. And it just works so well for me because I was raised and in my early twenties, mid twenties boundaryless, so I very boundaried now. So that was my thing. You've
Danielle Lewis (21:39):
Been on that rollercoaster already.
Anna Oliver (21:41):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So the way to go is just, okay, I feel like an imposter, but I can't do everything. What am I confident in? And I had a huge background with adolescents. They're great, they're fun. You can be a little bit more informal with them. I feel like I connect quite well. I was like, we push that out to the universe a bit and obviously anxiety, depression, that's pretty much a ballpark. And then I really do enjoy people that come in with anxiety, depression, but it actually works out to be childhood trauma. So it was just like, let's start with that, then we see how we go. And I think what helped as well was naming it. So if I did have a parent or a client ring up being like, this is my challenge, I just straight out name it. Hey look, I have worked with clients with that in the past, but it's not my caliber. How do you feel about that? They'd say, oh, well I just need the support. I said, let's see how we go. And if it's not working for you or I'm feeling out of my depth, let's just name it and I'll help you find someone else. And it was like, cool. Just setting that precinct from the get go was really, really helpful. And then just once they start coming in and they come back and you're having those connections, it's like, oh, maybe I'm not so bad at this job. Maybe there's something here. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (23:07):
I mean it's interesting. I think there's two really interesting things there. And the first one is you talk about it in terms of patients or people that you would see or treat. For everyone listening, that is your ideal customer, right? Yes. So I think you are just spot on actually figuring out where you feel comfortable to start with and where you feel confident and setting those boundaries around. This is who I look after, this is who I serve. It does two things. It not only helps you feel better, but it also helps you attract the right people. You are one person, don't have time to talk to every man and his dog, and you also can't serve everyone. There's no business that is, oh, everybody is my customer. So by actually love that, by naming it, by putting those boundaries in place, by being super clear about the customer that you serve, that just alleviates so much more stress. But I think it also makes sure that when people do find you, they're the right person.
Anna Oliver (24:12):
Yeah, exactly. Because I mean, everyone's dream is working and doing what they love. And of course there's always parts of the job that are hard or strenuous or whatever, but psychology is no different. We should be, I'm going to be the best psychologist if I'm working with a caliber that I feel confident with and that I enjoy. Because initially part of that, I guess not having the knowledge or that imposter syndrome a bit was in the beginning I was like, well, I'm rural so there's no other services, so I must have to bulk bill. That was a real, and I talked to one or two people and they're like, no one's going to come Lehman. There's not much money nobody's going to come to. You got to be really cheap. And I was, I was really struggling with that because a part of me was saying, no, I feel like my worth is more than that. The other part is like, oh, but I should be serving everyone. And then the other part is you work from home, so we don't want everybody because one that's not safe too. It's burnout anyway. And that's when I was consult with my supervisor, who was my supervisor through my training and stuff. And she was like, what are you talking about? Bulk bill. She's like, you've done this, you've done this, you've done this. You were worth more. She's like, I think you should charge this. I was like, whoa. Oh my
Danielle Lewis (25:34):
God.
Anna Oliver (25:35):
I was like, I'm going to charge a little bit less than that, but thank you. So yeah, she just said, said it straight out, you don't charge what you're worth. All you're going to do is resent it, be unhappy. So yeah, I really remembered that and was like, no, which is hard too, to be like, am I really worth that much? But yeah, I think over time, and I think too now, yeah, I'm just sort of like, if I'm not for you, whatever, that's cool, that's fine. And I'm not going to be for everyone and even clients, I know that it's Slim Pickens. I am the only sort of onsite person, but I always say to clients, I might not be your cup of tea, and that is okay. Name it or I'll pick up on it. That is cool. We'll look to find you, it'll have to be telehealth, but I can't, like you said, can't serve everyone
Danielle Lewis (26:26):
And you are right. And it's just also that abundant mindset of I might not be for you. And that's okay because there'll be plenty of other people out there. My business is still going to thrive at the level at which I'm charging at the type of customer I want to serve. There is enough. We have enough humans on the planet that it doesn't matter what niche you pick or what price point you pick, there will be enough customers to actually reach them, reach or hit your goals.
Anna Oliver (26:54):
But it's so interesting in the beginning though, how you doubt that you are like, oh, but or if someone doesn't come back or you think you need to be everything for everyone. And yeah, I know that's a hard thing for everybody, but I think it's just time and you just shake it off as time goes on.
Danielle Lewis (27:13):
And even that they won't be able to afford this even making decisions for other people that you've never met.
Anna Oliver (27:22):
Yeah. Yeah. I'm mind reading, mind reading the whole vicinity. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (27:27):
Isn't it crazy? It's so funny. So it's just coming up a lot lately, this concept of self rejecting. I had a woman, so the news spark grants are launching today, and so we're doing a little bit of outreach and what have you for it. And I had a lady reply to just a general info email just saying, look, this sounds amazing. It's so good. Awesome, awesome, awesome. But unfortunately it's probably not for me because I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not this. And I was like, well, none of those are criteria. You just self selected yourself out for no reason. You just made up a bunch of reasons why you are not the right fit, even though none of those are actually a criteria for this. And I'm like, why do we do this? Why do we make crap up that doesn't exist? And then cap what we can do cap worth, cap our scale, cap our growth, and then turn around and we are resentful and we are not hitting the goals that we want. It just blows my mind.
Anna Oliver (28:26):
Yeah, totally. It's like job descriptions or a job advert comes off and you're like, oh, well I don't have that. And yeah, I had a friend once, I think we all said, we all do it. And I had a friend once, she's like, it's not that you haven't done it, it's just you haven't maybe done it the way they want. You just got to be creative and right. And I was like, hundred percent. Yeah, then. But yeah, it is sad that we do that to ourselves. We're all very, yeah, it's funny, isn't it?
Danielle Lewis (28:56):
I think it comes back to what we were talking about earlier. The mind, your mind is just so powerful, but unfortunately it can work for or against you. And it is.
Anna Oliver (29:10):
And I think women, we do it more, right? Men are like, I'm going to apply for that job and they've got no experience. A woman's like, oh, well I meet eight of the nine criteria, so I better not apply The guy's like I need nothing. So
Danielle Lewis (29:24):
It's insane, isn't it? I dunno. What's wrong with us? What is wrong with us?
Anna Oliver (29:28):
I know society programming.
Danielle Lewis (29:32):
Oh, it's great. This is why we need therapists so that we can get yes,
Anna Oliver (29:36):
Everyone therapy
Danielle Lewis (29:37):
Stuff totally
Anna Oliver (29:39):
Get out of our own way.
Danielle Lewis (29:41):
And it's really interesting because I find that a lot of the times it is just having that outside perspective of having somebody, because we are not all as business owners, not all of our friends and family understand what we do and what we're going through. And it is nice to have somebody to go to that you can actually talk about things and talk through scenarios and situations and have them just help check yourself a little bit in why you are telling yourself whether you can or can't do something. Yeah, I think it's just, I know I'm now on the therapy train. I'm like, all right everybody.
Anna Oliver (30:21):
I know. It's really true. Yeah, I was thinking that. I was like, is this going to end up me just talking about therapy and stuff as opposed to business? But it's all good, but there's a lot of therapy involved for anyone starting a business because like you said, all these thoughts come up for everyone. Imposter syndrome, how am I going to do it? Anxiety, stress, especially if you don't have my thing for anyone, is boundaries. Boundaries, boundaries. I'm like the boundary queen now. Yeah, it can be. How do we
Danielle Lewis (30:52):
Set boundaries?
(30:53):
How do we, what's like a quick tip? Something that I can do to tell people to stop following my emails up. No, I had this, I'll give you one. So I've just come back from my honeymoon and I did a couple of things, a couple of clients I kept happy and I had this one client who's a new customer, so I was kind of just keeping him entertained. Anyway, he emails me at two o'clock on Friday afternoon and I was in transit back, follows me up on Sunday, follows me up at nine o'clock on Monday morning, and are we going to have this level of difficulty communicating when I am a customer? And I was like, hang on a second, there hasn't even been a 24 hour, like a 12 hour window of business hours and you've sent me three emails. And I definitely did that. Look, whilst as a business owner, I sometimes do reply on weekends. None of my team will ever do that. They do not work on weekends. I do not expect them to. So we do have this kind of response, but I was like, are you kidding me? I was furious. I was fuming.
Anna Oliver (32:02):
Totally. Well, he's trying to push boundaries and get his way.
Danielle Lewis (32:06):
Exactly. It's not even a accustom yet. Oh my god. Red flag. Red
Anna Oliver (32:10):
Flag. Yeah. Well, yeah, red flag. I think if you take him on, you have to be. But it's interesting, I think because even I fall into the trap and there's something about someone, someone's igniting something in you where you have that you feel yourself being drawn into it. I better reply and then I'm like, oh, what are they triggering in me? Why do I, I've been boundaried with Bob over there. It is interesting, but a quick tip, I think you feel it in your body, right? You feel that or the second you feel any form of resentment boundary, you feel tense. You're like, oh God, oh, should I, I, anytime you have that argument in your head, should I do that thing? Should I not? You don't want to do it. You're trying to talk yourself into doing it. So just don't do it. Say no,
Danielle Lewis (33:01):
I love that.
Anna Oliver (33:02):
I
Danielle Lewis (33:03):
Love that. And it's so funny. I love the say no. How do I say no? You just say the word. No,
Anna Oliver (33:09):
No. Yeah. And I think to another quick tip is if you're too scared to say no, get straight off the bat, you say, I'll let you know. And it buys yourself time to build up the courage to say no is a good one.
Danielle Lewis (33:23):
Exactly. And I always say to people, you know what? If you have to make up an excuse, I understand that sometimes that's you feel a little bit silly about making up excuse. Who cares? If it gets you out of an uncomfortable situation and it makes them feel fine, then just do it. It doesn't matter. You do not owe anybody anything, especially when it's your time and business. And if it's going to take away from the values, the reason why you built the business or having to not spend time with your family or whatever it might be,
Anna Oliver (34:01):
Well that's it. Because it's exactly right. You say yes once to that say, because there are people that push boundaries, and that would be across the board for anyone in business. You have these boundaries set and they push and then you be firm and then they push again and you allow it, and then potentially it just becomes a problem. And then you are resentful and then you are unhappy and then you hate dealing with that customer or whatever. And it's tricky though. It's tricky because I think too in the beginning you are on that crossroad of, well, I want to make money, right? I'm starting this up, but you're not really, yeah, tough.
Danielle Lewis (34:41):
And I do find it's a good, when people say, if you say yes to something, you are inadvertently saying no to something else. So I always like to think, okay, so if I say yes to this, then I'm saying no to going out to dinner with my partner. That's a good way to, do I want to say no to that or do I want to say no to that? It's almost then pick your no rather than yes or no to that person. It's actually, we'll pick your, no, do I want to say no to my darling beautiful husband, or do I want to say no to this guy who's being an asshole and he's not a customer yet.
Anna Oliver (35:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a good way to think about it.
Danielle Lewis (35:25):
Super interesting. Now we could talk all night because we have a glass of wine our hand, but I always love to leave these podcasts with one piece of advice for women in business. So reflecting on your time as a woman in business, would there be a piece of advice that you would give to a fellow female founder who might be struggling to show up in these tough business times?
Anna Oliver (35:57):
Yeah, I just think if you're thinking about it, I know it's not as easy as just doing it, but it's just do it. And I'm always like, my biggest motto in life is you can change your life. So I just feel like something's not working. Find the solution. Find someone that can help you find the solution. Someone that motivates you, that supports you, and start small. Give yourself if you are not in a position, like I said, I was very privileged. We weren't came to a small town. There was nothing else to do but time. A lot of people don't have that. They're working full time and they're trying to start a business, which is huge. So it's just do a little thing at a time or find the thing that gets you all excited and creative and then go with that for ages. Yeah, I just think start small, but just do it.
Danielle Lewis (36:57):
I love that so much. You're so spot on. I think that there's this narrative, especially online, especially Instagram, where we've got to run so fast and we've got to achieve these big things. And if we're not having six figure seven figure months, years, days, minutes, then we're failing. And I love how this conversation has really touched on figuring out what your values are, designing something around that and then just taking small steps towards it when you can. Progress is progress,
Anna Oliver (37:32):
Definitely. Yeah. And just living, like you said, you've said it beautifully, just living an authentic life, living and doing something that feels authentic to you and then you can't go wrong.
Danielle Lewis (37:44):
I love that so much. You are incredible. Anna,
Anna Oliver (37:50):
Thank
Danielle Lewis (37:50):
You so much for sharing your wisdom with the Spark community tonight.
Anna Oliver (37:55):
Thank you for having me. I had a great time. I
Danielle Lewis (37:57):
Know we'll have to do it again. Definitely. Yes. Awesome. And everyone get therapy. That's the model, this podcast. I love it so much. Cheers to you. Thank you, Anna. You are the best.
Anna Oliver (38:11):
No worries at all.
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