#awinewith Sarah Macrae
MEET Sarah Macrae, Director & Founder of 24/7 Care Disability Services & Activity Hub.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:07):
My God, we've got three of you today. I'm so excited to share your story. Let's kick off first by just doing some intros. So who wants to get started? Let's talk about what the business does first and then let's introduce the three of you so we kind of set up the conversation for today.
Sarah (00:26):
Okay. So we're A-N-D-I-S provider, but we do a lot of focus on the day program, community participation, a little bit of in-home supports capacity building.
Danielle Lewis (00:41):
I love that. And now, so what do you do? So let's go names and what you do for the business.
Sarah (00:45):
Okay, so I'm Sarah and I'm the director and original founder of this organization and I've got a role of many hats. But yeah, I've originally come from where I was just a worker support worker from 18 years old and I've just got a real fire in my belly for these guys. So
Danielle Lewis (01:14):
Good.
Terry Ann (01:15):
My name's Terry Ann and I'm the quality assurance manager. It's a bit of an ambiguous title here. I do lots of different things. I work a lot with staff, ensuring their welfare, making sure that they're happy and healthy and go home in the same way. I have a background actually in Seal Homes, so being welcomed into the day program environment has been a really good challenge for me personally. Yes, that's a bit about me,
Emily (01:52):
But she loves the challenge. She loves the
Sarah (01:54):
Challenge.
Danielle Lewis (01:56):
I'm like, I was just like, you make employees happy. I'm like, I need one of you on my team.
Emily (02:02):
I know she's great.
Sarah (02:03):
I love it. She goes, my doing right, and I'm like, yes, you're amazing. Just keep going. You're on track.
Danielle (02:12):
Incredible.
Emily (02:14):
So my name's Emily. My background is Aboriginal early intervention and I recently jumped ship over to the NDIS field. My role, many hats, but mainly just to collaborate with other service providers and who is engaged with the client's, participants care, making sure that we're on top of things.
Sarah (02:50):
Do a lot of cultural
Emily (02:53):
Aboriginal women. I do a lot of the cultural work as well, linking in with the cultural services and just making sure that we have the culturally safe boundaries and all that in the workplace.
Danielle Lewis (03:07):
Awesome. I love it
Sarah (03:09):
Participants, but it's been a good collaboration because she's got that background, but we do have a lot of First Nations and by staff and participants and the way that directions go. And so it comes in with the cultural diversity of mixing it up and bringing them all together as one.
Danielle Lewis (03:30):
Yeah, and it's interesting. You've got to have somebody that has that lens of understanding everyone's circumstances and can help everybody come together in a good way.
Sarah (03:42):
So yes, we come as one. We do.
Emily (03:45):
We make that quite clear
Sarah (03:46):
Too. Yes. That we are all one. It's not that because you are indigenous or everyone's different. Yeah, everyone's different, but we're all one, we're all human. We all walk the same path. We're all in it doing the same thing.
Danielle Lewis (04:00):
That's so
Sarah (04:01):
Cool. I get those barriers down, which has been interesting.
Danielle Lewis (04:05):
Oh, I can imagine. So how did this even get started?
Sarah (04:11):
So,
(04:14):
Well, no, basically I walked into Pete Island when I was 18 and it was quite overwhelming, but a great story and a lot of history and experience and life lived experiences being in that field, especially the transition from the mental health act to the disability act to coming in and tidying everything up to be where we are today in the industry, which has been quite evolving, but I've grown with that whole process. So I suppose I was lucky that I came in on the end of it so I could see why the changes were being made and then grew with it and then they shut down, did the decommissioning of all the large resis and there was the grandfather's agreement to where they'd get 'em out in the community and then have them integrated back in. So we supported them through the transition period of gone to the community.
(05:22):
Some guys had never been to a shop or a cafe to the point, yeah, we're teaching 'em how to break down those habits of just knowing that one thing. So that was quite challenging but rewarding. Set up all their houses and then I seen a huge gap when we were trying to link them into services. They didn't essentially fit into the criteria, so they were left without services. So I went, I'll go build a service around that. The more complex challenging participants, I focused purely on that and it just grew in that respect because they all came and then I just modified it too because hard with the NDIS standards because you've got to keep everything within the standards and the guidelines, but you've also got that input and foresight of the participants and what they want and need and what they're seeking. So I've done a lot of tweaking and pushing it to the edge of gray areas to just make it work, but make it for them. So they plan a lot of their programs and activities. They have a lot of input, which we're finding the balance in that because that's hard when you've got management side, staff side and then you've got the participants got a big input into what they want and voice what they want. So it's teaching skills across the board to the participants, to the staff to ask management on how to collaborate and find that middle ground to where everything's in line and collaborating with their other stakeholders, their members, family members, house managers.
(07:24):
It's a real big jigsaw puzzle, but somehow we do it and it works I guess because it's flexible and it's not structured. And they do have their choices. They have their rights and what they want to do. And we have family meetings once a week and they all give their inputs on what they want to do. So then you've got the families input and then this one, there's a lot of factors in there that we face challenges and barriers constantly daily, but somehow we work. So we chew it up and mix it around and all of a sudden we come out with a solution. You said we're about solutions for problems.
Danielle Lewis (08:11):
I love that. I love that. I was going to say, do you have any tips? I think this is super translatable, dealing with multiple parties or multiple stakeholders and trying to get the best outcome for the participant. Do you guys have a bit of, whether it's documented or just something that's a bit gut, feel like a process that you follow to try and make sure everyone's voice gets heard and it is the best outcome for the participant?
Sarah (08:37):
I think an open door policy is very important. So we do, we've got our policies and procedures and then we've got the structure of client feedback and consultation, and that's all within the standards. But we've tweaked it enough to where it suits them. But I think a lot of it is sometimes we have to eat humble pie. Sometimes we have to be aware, self-aware and reflect on ourselves and our decisions because you are thinking on your feet and trying to make decisions sometimes while you're running and they're not always the greatest decisions, but you learn from them. But we've just got a real open understanding and no one makes huge mistakes or is a stuff up because if we learn from it and we've got something out of it and you're aware of it, well then it was a growing, it was growth and it was a learning part of that particular situation or part of the business.
(09:43):
We are forever changing because we have to. I think that as in we said that open door flexibility, nothing set in stone because it could change at the heart because we do deal with people, we do deal with people with behaviors or mental health. So what was good yesterday wasn't good today. So it's just constantly, forever a changing environment. But we keep that same structured culture. I think that keeps us all together as we're on the same page with our team, which yeah, I do think we're very good communicators. Yeah, probably too much. Too much, a little bit too much.
Danielle Lewis (10:30):
Sometimes that's important. Yes,
Sarah (10:33):
Yes, that is true. We are, we're very good at communicators and we don't have that full rigid of how communication comes across because people are out there on the floor and they've had a pretty bad day and they might come flying in like a tornado. I think it's really important that we are very approachable for the staff too. We're understanding we put ourselves in their position. We've all worked with somebody who's not been that nice. The majority of us have been worked from the floor up so we know what it's like. We're not just walking into a job and textbook. Well, this is what it says in the staff handbook. Sorry, that doesn't fly. No, sorry. But that ain't going to work.
Danielle Lewis (11:21):
Is nothing worse than managers who've never done the job.
Sarah (11:25):
And I think that's one of our biggest keys of where it's successful is that we do get it and we have been out there and we will go out there. We're short staffed, they go, we don't see a director out there emptying bins and pp, well no, it's not a director. It's we're a team. We've got to get it done. Same with Terry Edge. She'll be not sitting at a desk, she's out there. Same with Emily. If someone needs us or that supports we're there, then yeah, we're not sitting there by the books or pulling out the policy and we know what we've got to do legally and what's got to stand. But we bringing that more personal approach to,
Terry Ann (12:11):
I think we come from an industry where we do have a lot of education and experience with different personalities, mental illness, anxiety, depression. So it gives us a special insight into our coworkers as well and managing multiple different personalities and how can we make that work to our advantage.
Sarah (12:40):
Well, that's true.
Danielle Lewis (12:42):
That's so good. And as
Sarah (12:43):
I say, you're as good as us, your team's as good as your managers.
Danielle Lewis (12:47):
Yes, that's so true. It is really true. What's it like running a business within the constraints of the NDIS programs
Terry Ann (13:04):
Where it's
Danielle Lewis (13:06):
That is hilarious
Sarah (13:08):
Consultants to do all your forever changing policies and procedures and I think the thing we write on and that we do is we know all the governance and we know all the red tape, but we always just come back to the basis of it's person centered. It's about the participant that will never change. They change the wording overnight. They change structuring overnight, they change standards. But the main point of purpose that we're all here for is the person. And as long as we're doing the best for that person and it's for the goodness of what they need. And it's not blurred lines. You fall in with the NDIS, if you want to get into the right of the governance and all the legislations and all that, you need a uni degree
Terry Ann (14:06):
And
Sarah (14:07):
Some, but you do get a lot of outsource. We've got a consultancy company that helps to make sure because your policies and procedures, 120 page,
Terry Ann (14:17):
Definitely making connections in the industry is very helpful. Building on that,
Sarah (14:25):
Lots of webinars and workshops,
(14:29):
Forever workshops because they're just changed everything. But they're good because you break out in breakout rooms, so you'll be with other providers that are doing it. So it's not just so you want to PowerPoint screen that's just so you nut out those problems that we're all facing because there are a lot of problems. It is a very risky business now because of all the changes, the price cuts, the Shads award, there's so many financial constraints. The white bread report come out and not one provider is making a profit at the moment because of the government changes. It's forecasted that we're all sitting at a 2% loss
Danielle Lewis (15:14):
For next.
Sarah (15:17):
But you make it work.
Danielle Lewis (15:21):
It's really interesting because I know, so Kylie who's presenting a Spark masterclass on leadership next week, she works in the NDIS constraints as well and has had similar comments to make. But what blows my mind is, but all of the people that seem to like yourself, it's always about the people. It's about, okay, we've got a job to do in terms of making the best outcome for the participant. Yes, we've got crazy regulation and governance, but at the end of the day, we've got to do whatever it takes to make sure the participant gets the best outcome. And I just think it's so cool within those constraints, how businesses are born. It's awesome.
Sarah (16:06):
You're really
Emily (16:06):
Wasted everybody's time if you're not going to
Sarah (16:08):
Have
Emily (16:10):
That drive.
Sarah (16:12):
But it is, it's becoming a very split industry at the moment though. You've got your real innovative organizations that are coming out and trying to make it work and this and that, but then you've got your ones that've been around for 20 years, so they're still very restraint and restricted within their bloodlines and they're big. And so yeah, it's very, and it's not a divide I suppose. It's just like you've got your McDonald's compared to your cafe down the road is always going to have their McDonald's way. There'll be 10 cafes down the road that are all different but under the same. So yeah, it's good for the guys. I think it's been a good change needed to happen. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (17:05):
And so I guess moving outside of what the business does and think more from a business point of view. Obviously we all have struggles in business. Any big lessons that you've learned over the past few years?
Emily (17:20):
How much time do you have?
Danielle Lewis (17:21):
Yeah, it's like, and where's the wine Fine
Sarah (17:28):
Business lessons. Yeah, don't ever take this. Trust is a big one. Nothing's ever for face value. If anyone says they're giving you something for nothing, it's not nothing. There's always something at the end.
Danielle Lewis (17:43):
Totally. Totally.
Sarah (17:45):
Yeah. Family business.
Danielle Lewis (17:49):
Oh yeah, I've done that one. That's fun
Sarah (17:53):
Partners, you haven't
Danielle Lewis (17:55):
Done that one. Don't do that.
Sarah (17:58):
And I think what I'm learning now, and that's where Terry Anne plays a good part and Emily's good at that too, is that although she can be very empathetic too, just a, Terry
Terry Ann (18:08):
Ann's very good at this.
Sarah (18:10):
So Terry Ann's our oversight seer because we get sucked in basically because we're a people person and that doesn't run a business.
Danielle Lewis (18:24):
Ann keeps you both in check.
Sarah (18:26):
Terry Ann. Yeah, as she said, no more freebies. And I think
Terry Ann (18:31):
I'm probably in a different, I have found personally where the stages of my personal life have up to influence my business decisions. For example, my children are adults now, so it changes the way I operate from my kids.
Danielle Lewis (18:56):
And it's so important to have the different perspectives. Yeah, it really
Terry Ann (19:00):
Is. Yeah,
Sarah (19:02):
It and to have that person and I know has a long history in the industry and foresight to say to me, no, Sarah, that's not a good move. Or Show me from a different point of view where I've always had this, can't let 'em down. Can't not do it. So I'll pick up, say, I'll pick up all the pieces and doesn't matter how much it's going to cost me, I'll just fix it when it's not like that because that's not how you run business. And they're all out there doing their business and I was just being the people pleaser.
Danielle Lewis (19:37):
It's really hard though. I'm also a people pleaser and it is like soul destroying saying no, sometimes
Sarah (19:47):
You won't sleep.
Danielle Lewis (19:48):
Oh, totally, totally.
Terry Ann (19:53):
The lady's very complimentary. But I have to say, I think one of the things that does help me is I've worked for a number of quite large organizations. So I guess the way in which I present information to Sarah sometimes that may influence her decision because I am trying to be as professional as I can, presenting her with the facts. And I do try to take my emotion out of it a lot of the time so she can make a smarter
Sarah (20:24):
Decision. I've just run on emotion. That's my biggest downfall is I've got to take emotion out of it.
Terry Ann (20:32):
It's the best.
Sarah (20:34):
It's a double-edged sword. Yes. I need to be more logical.
Danielle Lewis (20:41):
And I mean it's difficult though, right? So, so good that you've got people around you that can actually go, oh, okay, I know that about you. So what I'm going to do is try and support you by providing this level of detail that maybe you hadn't considered or no one else has shared with you. So having that support network around you as a team, that's awesome.
Sarah (21:02):
Yeah, no, it's really good. It's been a real game changer really. It was that missing piece that we're missing. And it was funny because I said to our ex manager when he left and he was like, really think about what you need to make this all come back together as one.
Danielle Lewis (21:25):
Well, that was going to be my question. How did you find this amazing team? What did you do? What's your secret?
Sarah (21:32):
I've put it out there. Manifested. Apparently we manifest, I manifest. I
Danielle Lewis (21:35):
Love that you were drawn in,
Sarah (21:37):
Is what I
Danielle Lewis (21:38):
Need brought you together.
Sarah (21:40):
I did. I sat there on the awards night down in Sydney. I was so emotional that my manager was leaving me and retiring. He was a real rock. He got me back up on my feet and gave me that confidence to get back out of there. And I felt so empty and lost and because everything I knew and everything I've built is just all of a sudden gone, where do I do? Where do I go from here? And because you get up and you do it again, you do it better. You've done it once. You do it again. That wasn't a dream. You got a better, my
Danielle Lewis (22:17):
God, that just gave me goosebumps shit.
Sarah (22:20):
Yeah. I never that day. And he said, so stop crying. Well you are crying. They're out there thinking, we're Sarah, you need to get up and go. And that's where we got the Phoenix as our logo.
Danielle Lewis (22:33):
Cool. Yes.
Sarah (22:35):
That's where that comes again from and from that. And then yeah, we're at the awards night and he's left and I was all emotional feeling like getting secure, A bit unprotected. He was like the protector and he'd be the voice like, Anne, he go, no, okay. I'm like, I can't do this unless lost Archer and said, just sit here and think about what you really need. What's this person going to bring and what do you want them to bring? And it's everything that Terry Ann did within the first two hours of being here.
Danielle Lewis (23:10):
And
Sarah (23:11):
She walked in and because we met and I'm like, yeah, come down. We have an interview. I really need someone like you that knows the industry and knows what they're doing. The other hard part is two years in the industry isn't enough in this position.
(23:29):
Have a really good foresight. And I've heard a lot about Terry Ann. Good things obviously. Thank you. I basically said, yeah, come down, see what you like. If you like it, get a feel of the place. We say that to staff and participants. Just come and hang out. See if it's your thing. It might not be. It could be. And yeah, we had an interview pretty casually interview, and she said, alright, well when do you want me to start? And I said, because we'll get in this office set up. I said, well this office will be ready next week, so how about Tuesday? She goes, yep, I'll go bruise that week after. Is that alright? Yep. Not a problem. I'll have your desk emptied and ready to go. It's all yours. That is, yeah. Yeah. It's been unreal. It's just that, yeah, missing peace and you just feel it. It's a feeling. And I do definitely feel part of the family and we are, we're a family and they are. They're my family. I treat 'em, we're my family and they've got to be happy too. But yeah, she's just that missing piece. But we've found that with everybody. We, they just fit. So we just say it's manifestation of the universe.
Danielle Lewis (24:46):
That is so good. It's really interesting though. I am trying to hire for a role right now and all I've been thinking about is the job list. What are they going to do? But I'm just sitting here going, no, that's not what I need to be doing at all. I need to be thinking what do they bring? And I'm just going through all the things. I'm like, oh my God, that's such a better way to approach it. I'm literally doing that after this call. I'm going to write my manifestation.
Sarah (25:13):
I know. It wasn't until he put it to me and then I sat and I thought about it. I was like, yeah. And it happens and it does. It just feeds.
Danielle Lewis (25:22):
Yeah. It's awesome. I love it. Alright, let's leave our spark community with one last piece of advice. So if you were talking to another woman in business reflecting on your business journey, what would be one piece of advice that you would give them?
Sarah (25:42):
See, reflect on yourself and make each day count with the right choices that you make. And just go for it, girlfriend. Don't give up. Don't. As bad as today was, tomorrow is another day. And we start again listening. Yeah. That's who never stop listening.
Danielle Lewis (26:11):
I love it so much. Very wise words from the trio. Thank you all so much for being on
the podcast. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.
✨ Thank you to IP Australia for supporting the SPARK podcast and women in business ✨
