#awinewith Yarrow Magdalena
MEET Yarrow, founder of Pink Well Studio.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:05):
Oh, so good. Yarrow, welcome to Spark tv. I'm so excited to have you here.
Yarrow Magdalena (00:10):
Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm excited to be here too. I'm often on other sites. It's really nice to be interviewed for a change.
Danielle Lewis (00:17):
I know. It's really interesting. I used to do a lot of podcasts and now I'm feeling the reverse. Now I'm like, I keep interviewing everyone. I think I want to just chat on online again soon. Oh, I love it. Let's tell everyone who you are and what you do.
Yarrow Magdalena (00:34):
Yeah, so my name is Yarrow Magdalena. I live on the east coast of Scotland, and I've been doing this for about almost 10 years. I'm mostly a web designer. I also offer tech support, which I'm really passionate about because it's something so many people struggle with and just love this feeling of going into someone's business and tying some loose ends up and making things a little bit easier. And then seeing that people have this sense of like, ah, yeah, it's working now. And I'm also a writer and artist, so I do run two businesses, which some people find weird, but I really enjoy it. I love the variety it brings for me. And I also love that my art and creative business has its own cyclical rhythm to it. It really kind of expands and rests as I do because the web design agency, Pengu World Studio is my main thing and bread and butter. So yeah. But I think it's interesting to be in the other world as well, because I serve so many people who are working creatively.
Danielle Lewis (01:37):
That is so interesting. So technology and art, so creative and tech. It's super interesting. What's the backstory? What did you do before starting Amazing businesses?
Yarrow Magdalena (01:51):
I did so many different things, I think, to be honest. So I'm turning 14 next year, and in my twenties I just didn't know myself that well. I was really excited about the internet. So I turned 16 in 2020 just for kind of timeline. I got an email account when I was about 11 or 12. So the internet had already been a big part of my life. And in my very early twenties, I kind of stumbled into e-commerce startups, and I worked as a management assistant and an HR manager. And if you know me now or friends of mine, just totally don't get it that I could have do something like that and sit in a big open plan office and find that joyous. But I did for a few years at least. And then in my late twenties, I did an MA in Creative Media, and that was a really cool, quite broad program.
(02:43):
And I had at that point already been really into DRI media, so I was into photography, I've been publishing zines, writing poetry, very cringey poetry to be fair. But it really kind of boosted my confidence around media production and tech. And right after that I started as a web designer. I initially focused on custom built sites on WordPress and then kind of branched out from there. And I think how it is in business, you kind of respond to your own changing needs, but also to the landscape and to how things evolve. And I think that's how I've grown my business. I left social media in 2020. That was quite a big milestone for me, one that I never regretted, and so I'm
Danielle Lewis (03:34):
Really focused. Do you mean you stopped offering it as a service or actually stopped posting on social media?
Yarrow Magdalena (03:40):
Yeah, I deleted all my social media accounts. Yeah. Oh,
Danielle Lewis (03:43):
You're so brave. I love this.
Yarrow Magdalena (03:46):
Yeah, I do still sometimes support people in it, sometimes helping them figure out if they really want to invest in social media and be there sometimes creating graphics or branding automations, that kind of thing. So I'm still happy to do it. I have no judgment if it's right for people. That's so great. But I think for me, I felt like I was wasting a lot of time and it wasn't the best for my mental health, and so I left. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (04:13):
Oh my God, I love that so much. Someone was giving me a hard time about Instagram yesterday, and I'm like, it is not the be all and end all of my business, so just relax.
Yarrow Magdalena (04:23):
Yeah, I think it's going to be fun. And I can really see how some people still get a lot out of it. And I did at the time too. It's great for meeting new people and being exposed to ideas, and it can be really inspiring. And it can also, I guess, fill a social need in a way if it really makes you feel connected with people. So yeah, there's definitely benefits to it.
Danielle Lewis (04:46):
Wow, what an amazing story. And I just love how you've said that we do in our businesses, adapt to a changing landscape both within ourselves and what lights us up, what we're interested in, but then what our customers need, what market changes are happening. I love that. That's kind of the exciting thing about running your own business as well as that you do have the power to change it as often as you like.
Yarrow Magdalena (05:15):
Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (05:16):
It's quite empowering, isn't it?
Yarrow Magdalena (05:19):
Yeah, it can be, I think. Yeah, absolutely.
Danielle Lewis (05:21):
So how did you find the transition from employee to business owner? What was that like for you?
Yarrow Magdalena (05:29):
Ooh, yeah, that's an interesting question. I had already been freelancing for a few years, so before I did this, there were a few in-between years between employment and e-commerce startups, and then starting this business. And as you know, freelancing is kind of different. It's a different way of being in the world, negotiating contracts. I was also mainly working with two companies, so it really was kind of more like being employed by them. I didn't do any marketing. I didn't run social media accounts for my work or anything like that. And I think, yeah, it was a really swim or drown kind of situation. I lost one of those main clients. I thought there was going to maybe be a transition period where I had nine months to a year of both freelancing and doing this, building up this web design business. And then that company hired someone in-house because their workload increased around what I was doing. So they just didn't make sense for them to not have someone in-house anymore. And I was dropped very suddenly and I was like, oh, yeah, okay, I need to make this. You're like, oh,
Danielle Lewis (06:33):
Great.
Yarrow Magdalena (06:35):
But I think it just always in a way really suited me. I love working from home, always have, hopefully always will. And I think I definitely made a lot of mistakes. I underpriced my work a lot. Initially my bookkeeping was all over the place. My marketing was somewhat inconsistent, but I had to make it work because I didn't really have big savings or anything to fall back on really. So I think I had this drive and a real hunger to just work it out. And I think the way that I was working in the first years definitely wouldn't be sustainable for sustainable for me in the long term. I did so many late nights and said yes to every single project and always tried to keep on top of technology and how it's changing. I dunno if you remember Periscope for example, which was the video platform.
(07:26):
I hated it, but I was like, right, giving that a go too. If everyone is doing that, that's fine. Yes, I'm so happy that my business has matured to a point where I know myself better. I know what I'm good at and what I need to hire out and I need have in place to keep on top of things. And I would say that marketing probably is the one thing that had the biggest impact to become more steady within. I really focus on my two podcasts and my newsletter and taking Instagram out of the equation. It has freed up so much time and energy for me to be consistent in my own way. It's not a weekly podcast, and I'm not the best editor if I'm totally honest. I'm so impressed with how frequent yours is too, for example. That must be a huge amount of work, but I've never
Danielle Lewis (08:19):
Started. I have help. It's not all me,
Yarrow Magdalena (08:23):
But I've been doing it consistently for over eight years now with the podcast. So I feel like you have to find your own way of being consistent and then it works.
Danielle Lewis (08:31):
Yeah, absolutely. It's really interesting because podcasts and email so powerful in terms of that long form educational content and meeting people exactly where they are and actually landing in their inbox where they will actually open your email versus Instagram, which is so short, sharp, short attention spans doesn't reach your audience anyway these days. So really interesting. I feel like there's a lot of shiny object syndrome when it comes to Instagram, and we just feel like, and a lot of, I think we feel guilty if we're not on every platform. Sometimes as business owners it's like, am I doing enough? But I love the, no, this is what works for me and this is how I can be consistent, because I think that that is the most powerful thing. If your customers or your community learn when to expect you, that's what's valuable. Not just that you are jumping on the latest trend on a reel.
Yarrow Magdalena (09:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
Danielle Lewis (09:40):
That's so good. I love it. I love it. So in the early days, so you've been doing the podcast for eight years, so you were an early adopter of podcasting. I've only been podcasting for a year and a half, two years or something. So I'm so impressed that you started so early. Was it the podcast and email that were the way you grew the business, or were there other sort of strategies that you used to get those early clients and start growing?
Yarrow Magdalena (10:09):
I also ran a lot of free workshops, and I still do sometimes. That's something I really enjoy because it feels energizing to me even though I'm a hardcore introvert. I somehow really love teaching online and I have really practical things to teach. It's quite easy to rally people around. This is how you start a substack. This is how you start a podcast. Here's how to troubleshoot your WordPress website. They're not kind of concepts that are kind of really abstract and hard to sell to people. And so yeah, I really grew my list a lot and at first, I would say five years through offering free workshops, and that was when I was still on social media. So people came from there into my list and told their friends often. And I just really believe in generosity. I think sometimes we can get a little bit tied when totally, understandably, when we are really needing to make an income and the clients are just not there.
(11:08):
It feels hard to stand, step out and be generous and kind of trust that people are going to pay for some services even if you offer a lot for free. But I think has really worked for me. And in these workshops I got to know people. I also got to know their questions and concerns a lot better. So all the courses that I now have really are direct responses to questions that have come up in free workshops that I've been running. So it's such great feedback for me to see really how do people go through the process if they want to make their own website, for example, if they want to start a podcast, where are the little bitches? Where does it snack? And oftentimes also, people come to a workshop and they love it, but they just also have a sense they don't want to do it themselves, and they're quite gladly would pay someone else to do it.
(11:55):
And then I'm happy to do that. So yeah, that feels really good. I still do that. I have a workshop coming up this Sunday on ethical marketing, and I think it's just a great way to get to know people. I think business is so much about relationships, and I think we can kind of rehumanize that a little bit and step away from just thinking about the numbers and the funnel and how many people can I get to follow me to how many people going to be in conversation with. And I guess that depends also so much on your business model. If I had, I feel very geeky about business models because I think it's so important for your wellbeing to choose the right one that really suits you as a person. If, for example, I had a subscription model, which I had, I had a patron for many years.
(12:46):
I really loved that. And I was really into attracting large numbers of people, increasing my visibility, and then selling a small monthly subscription, that's a totally different thing, but I really only need a handful of clients a year who pay my larger web design packages to work with. So the numbers are not that important to me. It's really more about building trust and relationships. And I think having a website made is something very intimate in a way that can bring up a lot to be seen and think about the visual language that you feel is right for you or what you want to say and where you want to put your headshot. So I just noticed that people need to get to know me quite well before they want to work together. And that's fine. I really get it.
Danielle Lewis (13:33):
I love that so much. I mean, so much to unpack there because it's so interesting. As you were saying, the website development design process can be so intimate. You just made me reflect on my websites. And you think often as business owners, it's like our words we're the first ones to kind of populate it. And it is. It's just like we put our heart and soul into it, and then to have someone come in and go, okay, this is how we can tweak it and make it better. And it is almost like letting go of your first child.
Yarrow Magdalena (14:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
Danielle Lewis (14:08):
But talk to me more about ethical marketing. I'm really interested in this topic because I've been following a couple of people on Instagram lately who have been exploring this idea. And I always rant about people who, especially business coaches who go on about being a billionaire overnight. It drives me up the wall. So I know there's a lot of smoke and mirrors that kind of do happen on social media at the moment, but what is ethical marketing? What does it mean to you? You mentioned building relationships, having conversations, but yeah, more broadly, what does it mean to you? What do you plan to high level cover in the workshop?
Yarrow Magdalena (14:46):
Yeah, I mean, it really depends so much on the industry or priorities. So I don't want to be super prescriptive. I can just share what has worked for me. I'm trying to think of it in really practical terms. And I guess I started often with this feeling of confusion, anger, looking at these high profile, shiny smoke and mirror account and being like, what? It just doesn't feel inspiring to me or it's not something that I want to aim for, but then what do I want to aim for? And I think for me, before I left social media, in those moments of annoyance, it was really important to kind of nail down, okay, what exactly feels a little bit off for me here? Or what is annoying? And I think what I can name is I don't want to be manipulative in my language. I don't want to suggest, for example, that I have the only solution for someone's problem or that if they're not ready to invest in working with me, they have a block or they're just not really quite ready to grow their business or something because I have no way of knowing that.
(15:50):
I also don't want to put a lot of urgency in my marketing or increase the pressure a lot. I think there are moments where you would just have to say, there's a group program and it starts at a certain time and you have to sign up by then. That's how it is. And I also have a yearly sale usually in September, the back to school sale where my courses are on sale, and that's for a two week period, and that's how it is. But I think there are ways to give people a little bit more spaciousness in their decision-making process. For example, this sale has happened around the same time each year for four years now. I announce it in July. People know it's coming. If they want to have a course and they want to buy it on sale, they can start saving for it or they can start thinking about it.
(16:38):
I also always say the podcast I run is a free resource. If you're not sure about working with me being right for you, if maybe you want to take this course or not, just listen to 10 episodes and you'll get a really good sense of how I work and how I think, and whether that might work for you. There's no need to decide within 20 minutes. You can take your time and if it's right for you, then you will know. So yeah, that manipulation urgency is not for me. I think accessibility also is important, and that can mean different things to different people. But for me, for example, I'm trying to think about how different people learn differently. So for example, I try to add captions to all my videos. I try to set learning goals. I try to have different ways of structure accountability.
(17:29):
So I have some courses that I run life once a year, for example, for people who really need to be in a group to get the most out of it. I answer questions on my podcast. So there's an interactive way of learning together. I offer payment plans and I offer scholarships, but I also have boundaries. I don't as a blanket statement say, of course you can have anything for free, because I work for those things and I want there to be some kind of reciprocity, but I'm open to talking to people. And yeah, I've experimented with different kinds of pricing models because I think economic justice is important and I want everyone who wants it to have access to the work. And like I said, at the same time, I also want to have boundaries in the beginning. For example, I really underpriced my paid work, but I also often said yes to unpaid requests where people may be artists or activists, had really amazing projects, and I just really wanted to help them.
(18:30):
And I still do that sometimes. I do about two unpaid projects per year for projects that I just want to support. And I see it as my way of volunteering, and I have the resources and capacity to do that, that's fine, but also my prices are my prices, and that feels good. So really thinking about how can we meet people where they're at? I think that is important. I would never suggest that you need to have a 5K website to build a business. If you're just starting out, that might not be where you're at, and you can then iy it. And I think having different options at different pricing points both makes it easier to stand in your ground and stand in your boundaries, but also to kind of not get into this mode of it's this way or the highway. You have to get into debt to make it work. That's important. And I think the last thing I'll say is just coming back to kindness and remembering that we're all humans, and I think generosity is a really key value in my work, but also boundaries are important too. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (19:42):
Yeah. I think it's so interesting. What's coming up for me at the moment is energy exchange, that there is a real value in, yes, this is a hundred percent my work. This is my value that I give. However I want to support some people that won't be accessible for, so this is the way that I do that, rather than, you're right just saying yes to everybody. And then that can cause resentment in ourselves when way we aren't getting paid and we can't live up to our own expectations and look after ourselves in our own life. So having that balance and that energy exchange that makes you feel good on both sides, I think is really, really interesting.
Yarrow Magdalena (20:24):
And it's not easy. It takes time to experiment and
Danielle Lewis (20:29):
Yeah, I know. No, I love it. I think that you are nailing it. I'm just so impressed. What did you find, as we said, it's been a learning process going through all the things. What have been some of the bigger challenges running your own business that have come up over the years?
Yarrow Magdalena (20:48):
I think the first few years, definitely not having the right systems for a really good client experience. I think we often tend to think it would be so great to go viral and have a thousand usage product overnight or something. But they often ask people as a thought experiment, what would actually happen in your business if that happened? Do you have the capacity and the structures, the systems in place to really welcome people in that way? So that's interesting to me. But I think in the first few years, my welcome emails were a bit all over the place. I didn't attack people correctly. Sometimes I would duplicate a contract and I actually had old information in it or something. And that's just making it really hard to focus on the work that you actually want to do, and also to be clear in your communication with people about what you're available for and whatnot.
(21:44):
So I use 17 hats now, which I really love for the whole process, like bookkeeping, contracts, invoicing, quotes, that kind of stuff. And that's really helpful. It's certainly given me a lot of headspace. And then I think just health has been an issue as well. I had a big accident three and a half years ago, and that was a big curve ball. I wasn't walking for a while. I was in hospital for a bit, and it was also right deep in lockdown, so it was really hard to receive support in that time. I was living by myself, and I had to really let go of a few things in my business and change things quite quickly from doing a lot of one-on-one work, doing a lot of hourly mentoring support to doing my group work, for example, because I still wanted to stay connected with people.
(22:34):
But in the two years after my accident, I really shifted more towards online courses and taken on less bigger projects, and instead taught mid-size groups. And I really, really loved that so much. And I'm currently taking a break from it because I need to replenish that in myself and be part of other people's groups a little bit for a while. But that was really great. And so I think a challenge is often really being present and having a lot of clarity in your decision-making process. I think that's something that people really underestimate. If you're good with yourself and you know what you want and need, it's so much easier to navigate those curve balls. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (23:17):
Oh, absolutely. And I love what you said about taking the time to replenish yourself as well. It's just so important, and I think it's so important on a daily, weekly seasonal basis. It's something that I think it's very easy to get lost in the to-do list in the one more client or one more project, or one more this, and push ourselves to the point of burnout, which know a lot of people are experiencing right now. So the idea of actually being self-aware and replenishing and taking time for you, I just think that that's so important in business.
Yarrow Magdalena (23:57):
Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (23:59):
Oh my God. Love it. I love it. Now, I always like to wrap up these podcasts with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on your time in business, what would be one piece of advice that you would give to another woman on her journey?
Yarrow Magdalena (24:15):
I'd say really don't try to be someone you're not, and really get to know yourself and your needs and build your business around that, because that's the most sustainable thing. If you're not trying to pretend or you're not extracting things from your body that it's not willing to give, think about your working hours, how you want your work week to look like, what kind of people you like to be around, what kind of media feels easy. Maybe it's just audio, maybe it's just writing, but really expressing yourself in a way that feels easily doable in a sustainable way. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (24:51):
Oh, I love it so much. Yaro, I could not agree with you anymore. Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us and your insights and wisdom. It's been absolutely incredible. I appreciate you so much.
Yarrow Magdalena (25:07):
Thank you so much. Yeah, this was great. Thank you.
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