#awinewith Nadine Nethery
MEET Nadine, founder of CAN DO! Content.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:05):
So good. Nadine, welcome. Welcome to Spark tv.
Nadine Nethery (00:08):
Hey Danielle, so good to be here. I
Danielle Lewis (00:11):
Know, and you've been dealing with my lateness and general business owner happenings this week, so thank you so much. You all the best already
Nadine Nethery (00:20):
Can totally relate mom of three here, so you just go with it, right?
Danielle Lewis (00:25):
I know, it's crazy. I feel like that's the common thread of everyone I talk to right now. It's like just everything all at once and it's like I'm just rising above it all doing things when I do things and everything will be okay.
Nadine Nethery (00:39):
Absolutely, yeah. Otherwise you go insane.
Danielle Lewis (00:42):
Totally, totally mantra for business and life I think. But before we get into it, let's tell everyone who you are and what you do.
Nadine Nethery (00:51):
Yes. So, hi, I'm Nadine Nri and I am the one woman she behind can do content. I earn a living as a strategic copywriter for savvy online business owners who want to intentionally attract, delight and retain their dream customers with strategic copy and customer delight strategies to really well their customers into placing that first purchase and sticking around long term.
Danielle Lewis (01:22):
Well, that sounds amazing. I want to attract my dream customers. How is this sorcery possible? Talk to me about the copywriting piece, the science here. How is this actually possible?
Nadine Nethery (01:35):
So the magic is all in leaning into your audience So often, especially as newish business owners, we're so caught up in our own business, in our own assumptions about why people come to us, our own zone of genius that we sort of write copy from our perspective, make it all about us. But the magic is really in leaning into your audience, letting them in on a two-way conversation. So really listening with intent, picking up what they're struggling with, what's keeping 'em up at night, and then tailoring your copy towards everything they need to hear to feel seen, heard and understood, and the rest will follow. I know it sounds easy, but it's really that conscious shift to, and not make it about you as the business owner, but really about your audience and how you can support them on that journey there on.
Danielle Lewis (02:30):
Do you have any tips for getting into your customer's brain? I mean, I hear what you're saying and I'm thinking about my own website going, oh yeah, it's just a rambling of my thoughts, but do you have any? But it's interesting, I talk to my customers all the time, but now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, I wonder how you actually get into your audience's brain and then translate that into words.
Nadine Nethery (02:56):
Yeah, so it's really about having, as I said, intentional conversation. So that can be even DMS on Instagram. So if you're having a chat with someone, paying close attention to the words and the language they're using and making note of those. So really starting a database sounds dry, but some sort of system that works for you where you make note of recurring themes. So things people say all the time where you go, oh, actually now that I pay attention to it, this is the thing that people tell me all the time. And then incorporating it in your copy. Also, huge fan of regular surveys, so not surveys, everyone's done one and most people tell me people don't reply and I really get not much out of it. It's about being strategic again and asking open-ended questions, giving them a stage and a platform to open up because let's face it, you'd be surprised how willing people are to support you on your business journey and if you frame it properly in a way that you want to serve them better and by them replying to that survey and giving you their thoughts, they can support you on that journey.
(04:06):
All of a sudden people are very happy to come forward with the goods. So yeah, really leverage that and you can also automate that process. I'm a huge fan of making that part of, for example, your onboarding processes, your offboarding processes if you're a service provider. So really asking a bunch of questions to tap into that current mindset. So when they sign the contract with you, you can just ask them what made you stand out from everyone else and what they're looking for, what that transformation is, the quick win from working with you. And then same thing at the end, really tap into that excitement of you handing over the copy doc or the fancy website you've designed for them. So really tap into those emotions and again, pay attention to the language and the mindset and those tangible wins that people are looking for.
Danielle Lewis (04:59):
I love that so much. I literally just, oh my God, I just dropped my post-it note. I literally just wrote on a post-it. I'm like, oh my God, you've just given me a brilliant idea I've trying to do this afternoon because it is really interesting. I think that literally as I framed that question, I was like, I talk to my customers all the time, I dunno, but I don't know. But you're right, it is that intentionality. So thinking about, okay, let's just take a website for example. What am I selling? What message am I trying to communicate? What transformation am I trying to communicate? I guess I wouldn't particularly be asking my customers those direct questions. So the intentionality of a survey or an Instagram DM or a one-on-one call to actually go through, okay, how are we feeling right now? What would be the ideal state? Going through the intentional questions to get the intentional answers. I just think, yeah, it's a real, you actually have to sit down and do this as a process.
Nadine Nethery (05:56):
And the thing is, a few hours that you spend on actually putting that survey together, looking through the responses, you're going to save tenfold in your marketing, in your copywriting because everything just comes a lot easier, your content creation because you know the things your customers need to hear to be ready to buy from you. And same with the copywriting. Rather than staring at that blank doc going, what am I going to write? You actually have those insights to tap into and at least the starting point to get out of that funk.
Danielle Lewis (06:29):
So if I was a business owner and I was knocking on your door saying, help me, is yours a done for you service, a done with you, a teach you? How do you guide people through this process? Talk to me about how you actually support the women in business.
Nadine Nethery (06:50):
So I've got several ways that you can work with me. So there's the done for you service where I put together that strategic survey, I sift through it all, I analyze it all. So you've got a ready to tap into database and then write the copy based on that. There's also the more budget friendly version because pandemic's, economic crisis, all those things happening, I know everyone's budget is tied. So there's the done with you option where I work with your research that you've done, and I also provide you with a DIY toolkit that I've created that can help you with that process. So all the survey swipe files, templates to automate that process in your business. And there are also DIY copy toolkits, self-paced toolkits that you can tap into based on examples from my one-on-one client projects, for example, and my strategies that I use on one-on-one client projects. And I've also got a membership, so where you can provide your DIY copy for review every week and get my tweaks, my feedback, so you can then improve your approach to copy of every week.
Danielle Lewis (08:02):
I love it. And now I dunno if it's just because I'm in the marketing space on my other business, a scrunch, but I hear about copy a lot. Do you think that this actually works?
Nadine Nethery (08:15):
That copy works?
Danielle Lewis (08:16):
Yeah. Do you think? Yes,
Nadine Nethery (08:19):
Absolutely. Absolutely. I always, I'm a bit biased, obviously I'm a copywriter, but you can have the best design, the best images, the best in our products. If you don't have the words to help people understand why it's relevant and how it's going to improve their lives, there is still that element of resistance to actually adding it to their car, checking out and investing in that product. So I think it's ideally a combination of all the things. So professional photography, intentional design that really helps the copy shine, and then intentional strategic words to bring it all to life.
Danielle Lewis (09:02):
Yeah, it's funny that you use the word resistance because so many times people give me the feedback, they're like, I just like your vibe. And I'm like, thank you. How do I replicate that?
Nadine Nethery (09:16):
It's good. That's a good starting point. Yeah, the vibe. The vibe check. Yeah. I find it's really handy. So even that you can then dig deeper and go, so tell me if the vibe's there, what's missing from taking that next step? So I think it's a continuous thing, and to be honest, your copy is never finished and set in concrete because your business is going to evolve the way you serve your customers. And then even mindsets with all the stuff happening in the world, everyone is so occupied and stressed and there's just that underlying level of, I don't know, not fatigue, news fatigue, there's just the interest rate rise. So it really is worth having a look at your copy every few months to make sure it still is right and sits right with the sentiment in society and how people are feeling in the moment and really adapting it and shifting it as things shift around us, unfortunately.
Danielle Lewis (10:20):
Yeah, and that's exactly what I was just thinking, that even reflecting on my own website that it's just something that was put together. I call my website Frankenstein at the moment. Every time I add something new, oh yeah, I can do that landing page, I can do that now. I look at it, I'm like, what is it? What is even this? If anyone landed here, who would they think that we actually are? So I think that is so important to revisit it. And also I think on two levels, where are my customers at, but where am I at as a business and how things changed and what do I want that ecosystem to look like, especially if you have different offers, different products, what do you stand for? And then yes, you're totally right in the state of the economy right now. People are feeling a lot different than they were feeling however many years ago when we did that website. So therefore the language may need to change.
Nadine Nethery (11:14):
Yeah, absolutely. And it's just again, acknowledging what's happening rather than showing away from even mentioning it so often it's the same with objections. So really just acknowledging that, yes, this could be a problem, but it just means people feel like you are aware of their circumstances and you actually acknowledge them. I love
Danielle Lewis (11:38):
That. I love that. How did you get into this? How did you start the business?
Nadine Nethery (11:43):
Yeah, via multiple detours. Like many copywriters, I don't think there's any copywriter that ever set out to be a copywriter. So I grew up in Germany, you can probably pick up the accent. So I've been in Australia for 20 odd years, married an Aussie that I met in London. So yeah, I come from a translating background, so I've always had language in my ecosystem, so German and English translator. So always worked with language. And then gradually by chance moved into the marketing space. I did a whole bunch of courses to up my marketing game, worked in corporate PR for a global German car maker in Australia, and then traveled to motor shows around the world, took automotive journalists there, drove fancy cars, stayed at fancy hotels. I lived the dream fun, really loved it. And yeah, then got made redundant 10 years after joining by over the phone pregnant, just had my baby, my second baby, he was two months old.
(12:53):
So it was just a huge shock to the system, as you can imagine, highly hormonal and questioning everything you've worked for, going, is it me? What's happening? So yeah, I just took a bit of time off and reset and quickly worked out that I didn't want to be a number in a system again, especially as a woman. I'm like, why is it so easy for people to turn around and just tell you? That's it. After 10 years, I was just, no, I'm done. And knew I wanted to do something for myself but didn't really know what that was going to look like. And then in the meantime, because you have to pay bills, went back into full-time employment because there wasn't part-time around or somehow I just didn't manage to land a part-time job. So I was juggling two kids, full-time job for a while, fell pregnant with number three and went, okay, this is like something has to happen.
(13:49):
I just need to get out of this. It's killing me. The grind of before school care, after school care, the constant juggle and then explored content marketing. So at the time Instagram had okay reach and it was great. Oh, the days, the good old days, I thought, oh, this is cool. Let's just have a look into it. And part of that content marketing course was a module on copywriting, and I went, oh, this is cool. I actually, I think this could work. This could be me. Yeah. So just one day on my lunch break started activated my A BN, created this mini website to get myself out there and somehow landed my first few clients that I then worked on in a side hustle capacity for two odd years until I worked out that it was getting too much with the full-time gig. I then went on mat leave and went, you know what?
(14:50):
I'm just going all in. Let's see how this works. And then quit my job, never really went back after mat leave, and I have been loving it since. So it's just so nice to have something with purpose where you feel like you're actually impacting people, just a number. You're not there to tick someone else's box. It's so rewarding to support all these amazing, they're mostly women for some reason I attract mostly women, but just being part of their passion project. And as you may appreciate, a lot of women share a similar story to me. So the amount of women that were made redundant on mat leave or while pregnant is staggering. So somehow everyone I meet, they're just so passionate about the business they're starting or the business that they're growing, and it's just so nice to see that women actually like us have the chance to do what we want to do. And the online space makes it all possible.
Danielle Lewis (15:49):
It is so cool, isn't it? I just feel like there is this amazing power in business ownership, and I take the lens of financial freedom. So I'm really passionate about helping more women experience financial freedom through business ownership, because I believe that, so your example, obviously that makes so much sense, taking back the power and being able to support family and not having to just be at the whim of somebody else's whim. But even women who are in less than ideal circumstances, they do have access to finances, they are able to get themselves out of those situations a little bit more readily. Not always, I understand. But it is one of the big contributing factors when women are financially controlled or don't have. So that's why I'm so passionate about teaching more women about entrepreneurship and business ownership. And you're right, you're so right. We do live in this time where it is so much easier than before, right? A website, you can literally make a website in an afternoon.
Nadine Nethery (17:01):
Totally. And it doesn't have to be perfect. A lot of people get hung up on the, I need to have this fancy website. I need to pay a copywriter to get my first website out there. I need to pay thousands for a fancy website. You do not. And it's probably a waste of money too. So just do it and get yourself out there. Do it yourself and tweak later.
Danielle Lewis (17:21):
Oh, a hundred percent. I've had so many websites over the last 12 years, I'm like, because you are right back to the earlier conversation we were having. Things change, change, our vision changes, our customers change. So the first one, you're never going to reuse the first iteration. Why not just put something out there?
Nadine Nethery (17:41):
And the whole point, often when I do work with business owners who do want to have professional copy to go out there, when you then come to the way to unpack how they're going to serve their customers, it's like they have no idea because they haven't done it. I'm like, why don't you wait until you've actually worked out who you love to work with, the type of customer, the type of servers you want to offer, and then invest in professional copy because you actually have it all worked out, not all, but you actually have a pretty good idea of who you want to talk to and how you want to serve them, which is pretty important before investing thousands.
Danielle Lewis (18:26):
Totally. And it is that I always get wary when you ask people, who's your ideal customer? And they're like, everybody can buy from. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. That is a S surefire way to burn yourself out because you'll be talking to a lot of people that don't want to buy from you.
Nadine Nethery (18:40):
Absolutely. And if you annoy people, piss off people along the way. If people go, Ooh, don't really vibe with the website, brilliant. Because you're not wasting time with people that were never your ideal customer in the first place, and you're not jumping on discovery calls there. You're spending half an hour talking to someone where you go, not my cup of tea. So tea, that's the whole point of your website. I can attract the people who fight with you.
Danielle Lewis (19:07):
It's so true. And it's so funny. So I'm very much in all of my photos on my website, drinking a glass of wine. I'm a little sweary. Yeah,
Nadine Nethery (19:17):
See, that works.
Danielle Lewis (19:19):
But it's like I know that not everyone likes that, but I also know that if I'm doing say a one-on-one coaching session, I don't want to have to filter myself. I want people to know what they're for.
Nadine Nethery (19:33):
Absolutely.
Danielle Lewis (19:34):
Cut through, talk, real talk, tell them the truth, and not be worrying about, oh, I've got this version of me that I'm pretending to be out there. That would be a nightmare.
Nadine Nethery (19:45):
It'll literally, I dunno, burn you out very quickly, having to keep up this facade. Even especially with social media, even podcast interview, people are going to see the real you, so why not just put it out there and people can take it or leave it?
Danielle Lewis (20:02):
Totally. And I think that's the magic as well. So it's so funny. Marie Folio has this great catchphrase that it's like the world needs, I am going to butcher it, but it's like the world needs that one thing that only you have, and it is such a nice thing. People often go, well, there's so many marketers out there, or there's so many hairdressers, or there's so many X platforms. How can I win? It's like, well, you are the unique part of this. You are the magic. And infusing that into your message, your brand is the thing that sets you apart as well.
Nadine Nethery (20:40):
Totally. That's why I find about pages is often where my clients struggled so much because how much of me do I put into it? Is it too much? And well, let's have a look. You don't want to share everything, but it needs to be enough for people to go, I like her or him. I can see myself work with that person because yeah, I can relate though. There need to be those touch points that people can not belong to and go, yeah, my vibe.
Danielle Lewis (21:09):
Yes, I love it. I love it so much. When you put the website out and you are getting your first customers, how did you actually land those first customers? I'm always interested in how people actually find people to work with.
Nadine Nethery (21:26):
The very first customer I found through a friend of mine who I was doing some blog writing and social media content writing for, she at the time ran this big baby fair in Australia, so she had a whole bunch of e-com clients, and she sent this particular client my way. And as it happens, I've been in business a little over seven years. I still work with our client today, obviously. That's so good. Our relationship has evolved, and I do very different things for her today. But yeah, so she's still around. And a lot of the clients I find nowadays are either via Google, so that's where having a broccoli set up website with keywords and one that Google can actually find really pays off, but also word of mouth. So a lot of my customers come by are people I've worked with and come that way.
Danielle Lewis (22:23):
I love it. I love it. It's always interesting what works for different people. It's funny, someone was having a go at me about Instagram yesterday, and I was like, Instagram doesn't always, always the be all and end all. I mean, I know back in the heyday it probably was, and I know there are some people that really do drive a lot of sales through Instagram. There are plenty of other channels. There's
Nadine Nethery (22:47):
Absolutely
Danielle Lewis (22:48):
So much value in your website and word of mouth and referrals and emails. And yes, there are other social platforms other than Instagram.
Nadine Nethery (22:57):
And to be honest, I'm a bit over Instagram. I just don't have, probably don't put enough effort into it. And then when you don't put the effort into it,
Danielle Lewis (23:05):
It spirals down,
Nadine Nethery (23:07):
It doesn't work. And I go, so no, it's me. Probably a combination. But yeah, I've never really got a whole bunch of clients via Instagram. It was probably more the connection piece and being out there and visible. But what I love nowadays is email. So totally into growing my email list and having my little old channel and way to connect with people.
Danielle Lewis (23:31):
Do you have any tips for growing your email list?
Nadine Nethery (23:34):
Yeah, I love collaborating on things because obviously to grow your list organically, you need either to run ads or somehow still get people to your website to find your freebie, whatever you use. So I speak at a lot of summits, online summits. I have tried bundles, I don't know digital bundles. So providing some of one of my digital products in exchange for people's email addresses. So that's been working really well for my digital products, but also just collaboration in general. So being on podcasts or guest blog posting, so doing blog post swaps with other business owners and doing it that way. So yeah, just really putting yourself out there and trying things I think works a treat. You can't just sit there and hope that people find your website and feel inclined to join your newsletter.
Danielle Lewis (24:31):
I know, and it's so interesting because none of the things that you said were like crazy. None of those things are outside the realm of possibilities. And I sometimes think we do sit there and we're like, oh my God, I dunno what to do. But it's like, actually no one thing will likely change the game. It is the culmination of all of these small actions that we take, and absolutely there is nothing stopping you listener from reaching out to somebody who is complimentary in your space, who has the audience you're trying to target and say, Hey, can I write a book article for you? Or can we do a blog article swap?
Nadine Nethery (25:07):
And you know what? You'd be surprised if you position your pitch, I, it's a terrible word, but that reach out email, if you position it in the right way, that it's not all about I'm amazing. You need me. Make it about how you can support them, how you can benefit them in any shape or form and what you're going to do to make it worth their while. I get vast majority of yeses, and sometimes I put myself out there pitching publications for websites to write a guest blog posts, and I'm like, I don't know how this is going to go. And you'd be surprised how many times people actually go, yeah, let's do it. So it's just about putting yourself out there and then not being offended by it, and no, because sometimes timing doesn't align or it's they've got other things that they're working on at the moment. So really just taking that as, okay, cool. I'm learning from that. See what I can do better. And yeah, doing that.
Danielle Lewis (26:04):
Yeah, there's such power in being okay with nodes. I always say to people, it's like, so if you think about the sales process, sales processes have conversion rates. So if I'm selling one-on-one, maybe I convert 30 to 50% of people. If I'm selling through a landing page, maybe I'm converting 10% of people, that means 90% of people are saying no to me, or 50% of people saying no to you. I'm like, so you've got to have the nos. The nose are a part of the, and that's fine.
Nadine Nethery (26:35):
And do you know what? They might not say yes now, but they remember you even if you reach out. Now, I have a few instances where I reached out to be a guest on someone's podcast and said, oh, timing's not right. We are booked out for the next year. But then if you do, stay in touch and go, remember this, I've had instances where just being front of mind has opened up other opportunities or even summit opportunities. So sometimes one thing leads to the next. So if you don't put yourself out there, no one's going to come and ask you and chase you down.
Danielle Lewis (27:08):
Yeah. Oh my God, I love that so much. And there's one that just sprung to mind as well, because you've mentioned Summit. Someone said to me, someone said to me the other day, they're like, how do I get into these things? I haven't had the opportunity, rah. And I was like, there's nothing stopping you from creating your own.
Nadine Nethery (27:25):
Yes, I know, right?
Danielle Lewis (27:28):
The best way to be on a panel is to host your own panel, be the mc, or be the guest or whatever. You can actually create these opportunities for yourself, which is pretty amazing these days as well.
Nadine Nethery (27:41):
Yeah, totally. Totally. I love it. Yeah. I find as well be open-minded about opportunities. So even if you are part of something with 10 or other business owners, have a look at the other business owners and reach out to these people for that next opportunity. So don't just go, okay, I've done my thing, been part of the panel. How can you build relationships from that experience that then create more opportunities in the future?
Danielle Lewis (28:10):
That is such great advice because it's like this is an opportunity where they see you as they're equal because you're on the panel with them or you're on the with them. So make sure you're following them and engaging with their content. Reach out and say, oh my God, you're amazing. Love to stay in touch. All of those little touch points, you are so right, so that now you are top of mind when they do something as well.
Nadine Nethery (28:33):
Yep, totally.
Danielle Lewis (28:34):
It is funny. I look at events and I think sometimes it's all the usual suspects about the events, and I'm like, but that's cool because they're all now leveraging each other, leveraging each other's audience. It's super smart. Why not?
Nadine Nethery (28:49):
And you know what? It's all about working smarter and harder. As I said, our three kids, it's only me in the business. I don't have a VA or anything. So it's me doing the marketing, the actual client work, building in our landing pages, all the things. So if I can work smarter and leverage opportunities in 10 ways rather than one, why not?
Danielle Lewis (29:11):
I love it. I love it so much. You are amazing. Let's leave our Spark community with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on the last seven years in business, what would be one piece of advice that you would give to another woman who is on this crazy business journey with us?
Nadine Nethery (29:32):
So it is all about just taking that risk. So as women, I find particularly, we always look for what we are lacking and the skills we don't have, rather than our male counterparts will go, I've got one. Yeah, let's do it. So just look at how amazing you are. If you have an idea, give it a go. And the worst thing that can happen is, well, it didn't work out. You go back to another job. So it's about taking risks and really just having a look at the bigger picture. So what's on the other side? If this does work, what is your life going to look like? So in my instance, I don't have to work around someone else's schedule. I can go to my son's cross country carnival tomorrow without having to ask someone. I'm just going to go. It's that you can work as little or as much as you want, and if you do work weekends or overtime, it all comes back to you. So as hard as it seems, and as scary as it seems, just look at what's potentially on the other side of that risk you're about to take and just do it.
Danielle Lewis (30:41):
I love that so much. What if it all worked out? Exactly.
Nadine Nethery (30:45):
Mark, what if,
Danielle Lewis (30:47):
Oh my God, that's good. It gives me goosebumps. Oh my God. Nadine, you are amazing. Thank you so much.
Nadine Nethery (30:53):
Oh, thank you for
Danielle Lewis (30:54):
Sharing your wisdom with the smart community. It's been an absolute pleasure.
Nadine Nethery (30:58):
Thanks for having me. Such a good chat.
✨ Thank you to IP Australia for supporting the SPARK podcast and women in business ✨
