#awinewith Tatjana Genys: conscious leadership, healing and never ceasing to choose you
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What happens when a senior director walks away from 13 years of corporate leadership to teach the thing she had to learn the hard way? Tatjana Genys is the founder of The Art & Science of Choosing You, a business spanning conscious healing, living, leading and parenting. In this episode she shares the healing journey that took her from the mountains of Bhutan to the Amazon jungle, how writing her books became therapy in disguise, and the advice she'd give at every stage of a woman's business journey, ending with the line worth framing: never stop choosing you.
What does a healing journey actually look like?
Not one yoga class, and not one retreat. Tatjana traces her corporate superwoman years back to pain: "I tried to prove myself, and I tried to fit into a box that, lovingly, I just don't belong to, because my brain works different." Her healing ran from a monastery in Bhutan to sitting with tribes in the Amazon, through nine years of somatic development work, with plenty of sessions she couldn't wait to escape. The turning point wasn't a place, though: "I finally started being on my own team. And once that changed, that changed how I approach every morning."
Can writing a book heal you?
Tatjana's first book, I See You, took seven years and nineteen edits, and when she finally hit send to her publisher, she cried. Her second, From People Pleaser to Boundary Badass, was, in her words, "a slap in my face for a couple of months", a journey of accepting who she is, "good, bad, and ugly". What started as journaling became something more: "The re-editing process became where you cut out the noise, and you get really centred on the message." Validating, healing, empowering and heart-wrenching, all at once, and her recommendation is unambiguous: if you've got a book inside you, go on that journey.
What did the monks of Bhutan teach her about leadership?
Two people left their mark. The head monk, leading a school of little monks chanting at 6am, so in tune with his world that he made everyone in it feel safe. And, unexpectedly, the driver: the man who invited travellers to his family home for his child's birthday, taught them to cook a Bhutanese dish, and hummed prayer songs as he walked through the monasteries. "In the simplest of forms, he showed up in a way that I don't think other people could." That's the embodied leadership Tatjana now teaches corporates: bring more of that in, and make toxic environments a little brighter.
What does "choosing you" actually mean?
Sometimes it's playful: putting a silly hat on a negative emotion and making fun of it. Sometimes it's brutal: cutting cords with people you've outgrown, and some really hard goodbyes. "In the best cases, it means self-protection, it means empowerment, it means purpose, it means boundaries. It means living a life by design, which I think you owe to yourself, to every single version you've outgrown."
Tatjana's one piece of advice for women in business
She answers for every stage. Starting out: tune down the voices that told you you can't do it, and find a coach who sees your potential. Growing: build community around you that celebrates your wins and picks you up when you fall. Established: make it your mission to impact other people's lives, and remember leadership starts at home, around the kitchen table. And through all of it: "Never stop choosing you. It's not where you start that defines your adventure."
Meet Tatjana Genys, Founder of The Art & Science of Choosing You
Tatjana Genys spent 13 years in leadership at a multinational IT research organisation, reaching senior director and board roles, before founding The Art & Science of Choosing You, spanning conscious healing, living, leading and parenting. Born in Russia, raised in Germany, and now based in Australia, she is the author of I See You, From People Pleaser to Boundary Badass, and the poetry collection Find Your Center, runs the Badass Academy and a conscious leadership course, delivers corporate workshops from conscious hiring to conscious firing, and holds sound journeys and inner child work.
You can find her here:
Full transcript
Danielle: Amazing. Tatjana, welcome to the Spark TV Podcast. I am so excited to have you here.
Tatjana: Thank you for having me. It's an absolute joy to be here this morning.
Danielle: So good. Yes, I've got my cup of tea. It's a little early on the West Coast, but talking to you always invigorates me, and I'm already feeling excited from our 5-minute chat before we hit record. So this is so good. Let's start out by telling everyone who you are and what you do.
Tatjana: Amazing. My name is Tatjana Genys. I'm the proud owner and founder of a company called The Art and Science of Choosing You, and it's a business I created after being in a leadership role for 13 years in a multinational, epic organisation that was everything, but not aligned to where I think my true skill set lies. So after a deep, deep, deep journey of cleansing, releasing everything that was stuck, I decided to go on the brave journey and try it on my own. The business I now run is focused on conscious healing, conscious living, conscious leading, and conscious parenting. All four sectors that I believe you need, that represent healing at the core, and making your life, your heart, your mission really work.
Danielle: Ugh, I love that so much. So it sounds like it was quite the journey, to get from corporate superwoman to business owner. What was that process like for you? You said you went on a bit of a healing journey. What did you do? What did you try? What did you experiment with? What worked? What didn't work? Tell me everything.
Tatjana: Oh, I love, love, love that question. So, healing now is my middle name, and that's why I love incorporating it in every conversation, in anything I teach, in anything I write, in anything I position, be that a corporate workshop, or a sound journey I hold at home, or somehow mapped into the characters of my books. But I think if I was really honest with myself, reflecting all the way back, my journey probably started in childhood. And I think the path I went on to become that superwoman, as you lovingly named it, in the corporate world, was actually driven by a lot of pain. For the longest time, I tried to prove myself, and I tried to fit into a box that, lovingly, I just don't belong to, because my brain works different, my thoughts are different, which now, I believe, has become my superpower. But getting to that stage meant healing all the wounds of when I was made small, or disrespected, or when a story of mine got created about how I perceived the world. And it also meant proving myself in so many different ways in the corporate world, so that leaving it behind after reaching a senior director role and board of director role felt insane. But I was also looking at my private life. I went through a divorce, and I was trying to raise a conscious boy, moving through the transitions of him growing older and developing into a very different individual than I ever thought or hoped or wished for, a kid more aligned to me initially. And now I love him for exactly those changes, because he helped me grow and develop into the person I had to become.
So my healing journey took me anywhere from the mountains of Bhutan, to sit in a monastery, to the Amazonian jungle, where I sat with some native tribes, to 9 years of somatic development work, and coaches galore. To really dig deep and uncover, or maybe even remember, who I truly was. That's why I believe so wholeheartedly that all of what you are is perfect, and that it's really more about reconnection with you at the core, at your being, and understanding what your magic is, your definition of it. Maybe uncovering all the masks, and all the traits you learned along the way, and fully stepping into that version. That was the foundation of what I created the business with. So let me just pause here and see where you want to take it.
Danielle: Oh my god, no, it's just so good, and I have, like, a billion questions. But I think the thing that's standing out to me is that this isn't just, go to one yoga class and it fixes your whole life. This is really a lifelong journey that we all need to go through on some level.
Tatjana: Absolutely. I wish it was as simple as going on a yoga retreat, and for a certain while, that fixed a core within myself, so I don't want to discriminate against it or disempower it. With every stage that you are in, and every age bucket, and I'm now in my 40s, best time ever, because I actually feel like this is me really stepping into the woman I'm meant to be, every part of my life was a phase. If I had all the tools straight away, I probably wouldn't have known how to handle them. So it was definitely a development, a lot of trial and error. You asked what worked, what didn't: I went to some sessions where I couldn't wait to get out and thought, never again. And in some, I really surprised myself. The ones where I really got to meet myself at the deepest level, where I understood that I'm not too deep, I'm not overreacting, that's actually my gift, part of what I get to share in my poetry, and in my books, and in the characters that come to life, that started to become a game changer. Because I finally started being on my own team. And once that changed, that changed how I approach every morning, my daily habits, how I work with my inner child, and how I love teaching others to work with their inner child, because it's such a beautiful journey of learning to fall back in love with yourself. Once you are on that journey, you rally yourself so differently, you show up in the world so differently, you celebrate other people. Like the conversation we had a moment ago about the epic journaling prompts you gave me. You just want to be on other people's teams, because you don't want to go solo anymore. And that was maybe my reflection from leadership in the corporate world to being a business owner: that path felt really lonely, whilst now I see how many epic people are out there trying to make some epic changes in the world, and I feel honoured and blessed every day that I get to be part of it.
Danielle: Oh my god, well, the honour is all ours, because you are absolutely incredible. And I just love the way you talk about, rather than inventing a person, it's all about reconnection, it's the fact that we are already perfect. And I love that you used the phrase "be on your own team". It's so true, it's so easy to be the person who's not on your own team. It's so easy to be self-critical, wishing and hoping for all of these things, and sometimes we forget that we are perfect, and we do need to give ourselves a little bit more love every day.
Tatjana: Absolutely, and I love that you just said that, because sometimes we're the unkindest people to ourselves, when we are pushing so hard. I don't know why the brain is wired in a way that it remembers the bad stuff, not the good stuff. So whether that's habits around the house, little pointers everywhere that just remind you of your light. But I guess the mission I'm now on is: there are so many changes in the world, your inner world, your outer world, and what's happening externally, and you're impacted by so many things that keep you distracted from how you feel, who you are on the inside, and actually disconnect you in so many ways. Throughout that journey, especially when I failed, and there have been plenty of moments where I really had to sit down and pick myself back up and question whether I have it in me to keep going and drive a business forward, because you'll know better than anybody, it's not all sunshine and roses, it was deep connections that were meaningful to me. So that became part of the next chapter: to see how we can connect to each other, and every single individual we meet along the way, and in a way, remind each other of our beauty, and maybe shine together a little brighter. So thank you, and right back at you.
Danielle: Oh, I love it so much. So, talk to me about your books and these characters. I'd love you to go deeper on that and tell us what that's all about.
Tatjana: Beautiful. So I can talk about my books for a living, but I'll try and keep it concise. The first book I ever wrote was called I See You, and it was a seven-year journey where I went on lots of different development work to uncover some really deep emotional states. It talks to anything from self-worth and self-realisation, and a lot of painful memories, but my heart and soul is in that book. What I didn't realise when I wrote a fictional fantasy story, where initially I just had the beginning and the end, was the journey it would take me on. And what that led to was actually, for the first time, maybe, me seeing myself. So when I finished the 19th version of the re-edit, and I hit send to my editor and publisher, I started to cry, because it was such a big personal journey.
And as I was still recovering from that, my second book dropped in, and that was a journey I really didn't want to go on. It's called From People Pleaser to Boundary Badass, and as the title suggests, it was a slap in my face for a couple of months. That took me on a very different journey of accepting who I am, good, bad, and ugly. That I can be nice, and I can also be a badass who will call out whenever necessary. And that was a journey I believe I had to go on to make the right decisions for me for the next chapter. Somewhere in between, my poetry collection was born, the journey from being totally lost to finding my purpose, and that's called Find Your Center. Then I wrote a kids' poem, all about the adventures of finding your purpose, and an empowerment journal in 2024. And now I've got two more books coming: one that I'm really, really passionate about, and one that I absolutely love and adore and can't wait to finish, because it's a book I wrote with my boy when he was 9. That's a journey that will take us on a new chapter, but it's not time yet for that book to be born. Each in its time. It's been the most heart-fulfilling process, as hard as it was at times. And I highly recommend to anybody: if you've got a book inside you, go on that journey, because it changes you in many more ways than I could ever describe.
Danielle: Yeah, that's so interesting. I've always heard authors talk about writing a book as difficult, that's the number one word they use. But I love how you talk about how transformational it actually was for you as a person. That's so interesting, that actually putting words on paper can be part of the healing process.
Tatjana: 100%. Difficult would have probably been one of the last words I would have used, and I love that you're reflecting that back at me. There are parts that are definitely hard, and there are parts where you find writer's block, or you don't know where you're going to take it from there. But it also really offers you the lens of hindsight. Especially when I was writing my second book, reading through those versions, or even with my first book, by the time I kept re-editing it, the first 8 or 9 times I bawled my eyes out, because I could literally see, word by word, where I fell in love with an individual, where it all broke apart. And by the end of it, and that's why I'm so passionate about inner child healing now, I really wanted to hug that girl, hug that version. And I thought, if that's how it made me feel, hopefully the reader will get an essence of that, because it literally has my heart and soul in it. With the second book, it almost served as a reminder, because sometimes the mind can get carried away with, was I imagining that? Did that really happen? Was that just my perception of events? And I could read it, because I literally used it as a journal initially. Then the re-editing process became where you cut out the noise, and you get really centred on the message, and the connection, and what you want to achieve with whatever you're creating. So it was validating, and healing, and empowering, and heart-wrenching, and all the beautiful stuff you get as a result. It's definitely a process, a journey, and hopefully a lifelong learning.
Danielle: Wow, that's so incredible. So, talk to me about the business today. Obviously it's been quite the ride to get here, and as we touched on, business can be hard some days, but it's so incredible that we can wake up every morning and do something that we're passionate about, and connect with other people who are also passionate. Who are your customers, and what kind of processes do you take them through?
Tatjana: Yeah, I love that question, you ask such epic questions. You know, it was interesting. I had to learn and grow a lot when it came to it. I thought, when I launched a product within a corporate organisation back in 2014, that that would prepare me for running my own business. It did not. I was maybe a little bit naive, because I thought, I'm going to go out into this world, and I'm just gonna write, and it's gonna be epic, and people are gonna love it. Turns out, damn, if nobody can find your book, it's hard to leave that impression. So that was step one. And then it almost became like building blocks, because as I was leaning very heavily on the art side, I started missing the science element. I looked at it from both sides and thought, how can I connect those two? I've got 13 years of leadership experience in an IT research organisation, so I'm very structured, but I now also have all that knowledge when it comes to consciousness, and sitting in a monastery, and that's the art side. How can I connect that? And that's led to the combination, The Art and Science of Choosing You: a combination of speaking, of writing, of running corporate events that are anything from conscious hiring to conscious firing. I do a lot of inner child work with people who went through abuse, or different topics that we don't tend to talk about, grief, all sorts of emotions. And now it stretches all the way to me exploring little TikTok videos to see how I can connect to the younger generation.
I think it's become such a big drive for me to position hope in a world that can be really scary, a world that's surrounded by violence when you switch on your television. My mission now is to connect people to themselves, and to light, for lack of better words. And I do that through different tools. I've created an academy that I call the Badass Academy, and that's all about empowerment, super cheap, easy access for anybody who can't afford the beautiful training sessions I was able to afford when I was still in the corporate world. All the way to a course on conscious leadership, and part of my talk is now what the monks of Bhutan taught me about leadership, summarising 13 years of my leadership career, all the way to what I had to learn the hard way: burnout, and burnout prevention, and a conscious reset, with bite-sized templates, techniques and tools in your back pocket for how you make your life a little brighter. All the way down to holding space in lots of different capacities, playing my instruments, and connecting to people at core, which I absolutely love and adore.
Danielle: Wow, so much. I feel like somebody could come to you and talk about what they're going through, and you would just have the right tool or the right solution to guide them through that process. But the burning question I have for you is: can you give us a sneak peek of what you learned from the monks of Bhutan?
Tatjana: Absolutely, and I want to respond to both of the points you just made, because I really love it. I think the beautiful gift, if I may blow my own trumpet for a minute, that my journey has taken me on, and that's anywhere from being born in Russia, being raised in Germany, living in the UK, and through my career now being based in Australia and travelling a lot of the world, was a worldview I wouldn't otherwise have. But it came with some really hard lessons of what it means not to belong, or not to fit in, or constantly having to prove yourself. So I think the gift I can offer anybody who comes in, whether that's for a sound journey or a conversation, is: I will meet you there. I am not afraid of your emotions, I welcome them, I absolutely embrace them. And what I want to give you as a result of our exchange is for you to feel really seen and heard and understood, because I genuinely believe that's actually all we ever need.
And what I learned from the monks, and that's both the head monk, who left such an impeccable impression on me, as well as the driver who took us from one destination to another, is what embodiment of leadership looks like. The head monk was so in tune with what was happening in the Western world, while leading a school of little monks who were chanting at 6am and doing water rituals, and he made them feel safe, in a world that was really protected for such a long time. Bhutan is such a hidden gem, and probably won't be for much longer, but it's a world without billboards, that didn't have phones for so long, that's still a kingdom. And then what I got to see in the driver was the full embodiment of it. He was the person who invited us to his family home to celebrate his child's birthday, who took us to his neighbour's restaurant and taught us how to cook a Bhutanese dish. In the simplest of forms, he showed up in a way that I don't think other people could. As we were walking through different monasteries, there was the guide teaching us all these things, and I would turn to the side, and the driver would reflect it back at me, walking around all these beautiful sites humming different prayer songs. I had my singing bowl with me, which I ended up leaving with him, and he would just start playing it in the background. He was so in tune with the teachings I got to learn there that it touched me in a very different way. And when I looked at how that translates to where I am, it became the polar opposite: how can I bring more of that into corporations, connect some really toxic environments, make them a little bit brighter and a little bit more wholesome, and maybe give people a chance that I didn't have at that time.
Danielle: I love that, and I just love that you always talk about bringing that light and that brightness. It doesn't matter who you are, what job you're in, whether you're a business owner or you haven't started on that journey yet, I think we all need a little bit more lightness in our life. You're so right, you turn on the TV at night, and it's all bad. So sometimes it's nice to preserve a little bit of joy and light, and bring that to ourselves. We need to consciously bring that into our life.
Tatjana: Totally. And you know, I think you actually just summarised what it means to choose you. Sometimes that will be tuning out voices that just don't serve you, taking away that bad, putting a silly hat on that negative emotion and literally making fun of it. It sometimes means cutting cords with people that you've outgrown, or shoes that don't fit any longer. It sometimes means some really hard goodbyes. But in the best cases, it means self-protection, it means empowerment, it means purpose, it means boundaries. It means so many things, and it means living a life by design, which I think you owe to yourself, to every single version you've outgrown and connected with, and are still stepping into.
Danielle: Yeah, and I love that phrase, living your life by design. I was always fascinated when I found out that that was possible. I remember the moment. I just kind of went through life ticking boxes, you go to school, you go to uni, you get a job, you save for a house. And I remember I read a book that talked about lifestyle design and business ownership, and I was just like: oh. My. God. You mean we're in charge? We can just choose the life we want to live? And as much as there is a lot of negativity in the world today, we have never lived in a better time to be able to take complete ownership of our lives, and design them the way that we would like, even if that means tiny, tiny things each day while we're going through the process.
Tatjana: Absolutely. It's picking your own adventure, and it can actually become an adventure. And I love what you said about the light, because yesterday, just walking across the high street, and I can write anywhere, I can type away and be in my own little bubble, but I made a conscious effort to put my phone to the side. And I looked up, and I saw a Christmas decoration here, a really positive quote there, somebody reminding people to walk their bikes for mental health, and I thought: there are so many nuggets of beauty in this world. If you can fine-tune your brain to those, and cut off all the distractions, then I think you've got the perfect recipe.
Danielle: Oh my god, I love it so much. I could literally talk to you all day.
Tatjana: Same, same, same.
Danielle: Oh my god, so good. However, I always love to wrap up these podcasts with one last piece of advice. So, reflecting on your time in business, what would be a piece of advice that you would give to another woman on her business journey?
Tatjana: Oh, beautiful question. So, I'm going to answer it in multiple ways. If you're just starting out as a businesswoman, be that in corporate or as an entrepreneur, I hope you can tune down the voices in your head that told you you can't do it, because I think in our 20s we are still very insecure, and I hope that you find yourself a coach who sees your potential, whoever that will be, and drives you forward. And I hope, as you progress on your journey, that you find community around you that really serves you. People who celebrate you, who cheer you on when you have a success, but who are also there to pick you up when you don't. And then, as you progress and reach the stage where I'm at right this moment, I hope you make it your mission to impact other people's lives, so that you become the hand that stretches out to others and offers support. Leadership starts at home, around the kitchen table, surrounded by your kids, your neighbour's kids, your uncles, your nephews, whoever that might be, the dog in your life. It's just making somebody else's life better in whatever capacity you can. Be that a smile, if you don't have anything else to offer right this moment, or sharing your presence, in whatever way. And then: never stop choosing you. It's not where you start that defines your adventure.
Danielle: Oh my god, I just want to write that down: never stop choosing you. And take that into my day as a reminder. You are absolutely incredible, Tatjana. Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us so openly and honestly, and all of those nuggets of wisdom that we can take into our business, into our day, into our life. You are absolutely incredible.
Tatjana: Well, thank you. And so are you. Thank you for enabling this space for real conversations. I value that a lot. Thank you.
