#awinewith Michelle Hunt: therapy, a blue wren and the card deck that gets you unstuck
✨ Thank you to IP Australia for supporting the SPARK podcast and women in business ✨
Two teenage goals: become a therapist, and write a book. It took a couple of decades, a blue wren, and a global pandemic, but Michelle Hunt has ticked both. Michelle is the founder of Blue Wren Therapy, providing individual and relationship therapy plus clinical supervision from Townsville and online Australia-wide, and the creator of Unstuck, a card deck that helps you look at your problems through new lenses. This episode also features a special guest: Sasha, the therapy dog clients book appointments with.
What do you do when the obvious path is blocked?
At school, Michelle believed the only road to being a therapist was psychology, and her maths wasn't strong enough for the statistics. So she took what she calls a windy pathway: community events, event management, then volunteer development at Surf Life Saving Australia, working on leadership programs that reignited her love of personal development. Then the algorithm did something useful for once and showed her counselling as a study path. "Now I know psychology was actually not the right pathway for me. I'm not interested in assessment and diagnosis. Counselling is very much the right pathway." Every detour ended up in the toolkit: the project and event management skills now run her business.
How do you start a business when the universe cancels your plan?
Michelle moved back to Armidale to join an established counsellor as an associate, finishing her degree while building her practice. The day she handed in her final assignment, her mentor asked to meet, and told her she was closing the business and moving away. At that exact moment a blue wren landed on the fence beside her, straight out of Boy Swallows Universe, which she'd just read. One sleepless night later, Blue Wren Therapy was born. She launched in January 2020. "The coolest year to go into business," as Danielle put it. And here's the twist: mid-COVID, she couldn't sell online sessions at all. Everyone was Zoomed out and locked down with their whole household listening. So she invented walk-and-talk sessions instead, clocking 25,000 steps in a single lockdown day. Today, after relocating to Townsville, around 40% of her practice is online, with her Armidale clients still with her.
How does the Unstuck card deck work?
The insight behind it: "We're often looking at our problems through a pretty single lens, and we don't really move forward when we're looking at it through a narrow lens." You hold your problem in mind and draw four cards. A concept card introduces a psychological idea (like the Circle of Concern) with a booklet page and get-curious prompts. A question card makes you interrogate the problem ("How does this concept challenge my beliefs about the issue?"). An action card puts it into practice ("Draw an image of the solution inspired by the concept"). And a mystery card brings in symbolism, whatever it sparks for you. The goal isn't a quick fix: "Get curious about your problem before you move on to how do I fix it." Unstuck is available through the Blue Wren Therapy website [add shop link].
What's the secret to shipping a physical product?
People, mostly. The idea itself arrived as a flash ("it's not a book, it's a card game") after Michelle realised self-help books deliver one insight and then gather dust. Her sister Cass, a freelance graphic designer, made it beautiful. A neighbour on her morning dog walks, who publishes children's books, offered his manufacturing contacts in China. Samples went back and forth (the box was the hard part), timelines stretched, and stock came by ship. It took longer than planned, and it also ticked the second teenage goal. Next up: the Unstuck Method as workshops, for relationships, for the public, and, after unexpected demand, for therapists through her clinical supervision work.
Michelle's one piece of advice for women in business
"Lead with your heart, and not with your head. Do something that you love, make sure you love your business, because that's what gets you through the hard times." The head still gets a seat, for realism and the how, but the heart drives: "Listen to your intuition, and follow the little breadcrumbs. I'm living proof it doesn't happen overnight. It can take a couple of decades to get there. But if you love it, it will get you through."
Meet Michelle Hunt, Founder of Blue Wren Therapy
Michelle Hunt is a counsellor and the founder of Blue Wren Therapy, offering individual and relationship therapy and clinical supervision in Townsville and online Australia-wide, with assistance from Sasha, the practice's four-legged and reportedly most-requested team member. She is the creator of Unstuck, a card deck for seeing your problems through fresh lenses, with Unstuck Method workshops on the way.
You can find her here:
Full transcript
Danielle: Oh my god, I am so excited. This is the first time we've ever had, Michelle and Sasha, a fur guest on Spark TV. Welcome, Michelle, how are you?
Michelle: I'm very well, thank you.
Danielle: That is so good. And who do we have here?
Michelle: So this is Sasha, my little therapy assistant. She is the highlight of our practice.
Danielle: Oh my god, and she is gorgeous. For anyone who is listening, we have a little puppy with us! I am sure she is the best therapist on the team!
Michelle: She is. I've had clients say that they've got an appointment with Sasha, rather than an appointment with me.
Danielle: That is so cute.
Michelle: Very popular team member. I'll let her rest down here, next to me.
Danielle: On the couch, where she does her best work. Oh my god, I love it. Let's start out by telling everybody who you are and what you do.
Michelle: Sure. So I am Michelle, I am the owner of Blue Wren Therapy. I provide individual and relationship therapy, as well as clinical supervision, in Townsville, but also online to anybody Australia-wide. And I have very exciting news: I am launching my very first product. It's coming very soon, any day now it will be online. It is called Unstuck, and it is a card deck designed to give people different insights to help them get unstuck from whatever problems they're experiencing.
Danielle: Oh my god, this is so exciting! Okay, well, we have so much to talk about. Let's start with the first business. How did you get to starting your own practice?
Michelle: Yes. So the two goals that I had as a teenager were to be a therapist and to write a book. And with being a therapist, when I was at school, I thought the only pathway was psychology, and my maths was not strong enough. So I thought, okay, I can't study psychology, and I went down a completely different path, did a pivot, and went more into community events, event management, thinking, I still want to help people, but I'll raise money, get into event management. I went down, like a lot of people do, a pretty windy pathway, and that led me to work for Surf Life Saving Australia. I was in volunteer development, and lucky enough to work on their leadership development programs.
Danielle: Cool.
Michelle: And this brought up my renewed energy for all things personal development. I was like, I just love this space. I think it renewed my goals and dreams and made me go, okay, where do you want to go? And it was at that time, thank goodness, social media started predicting things for us, and it sent me counselling as a different pathway to study. I was like, oh my goodness, I can study something that doesn't require maths, and there's a different path.
Danielle: I didn't even know psychology required maths. That's crazy.
Michelle: Yeah, it's for the statistics, there's a lot of statistics in psychology. And actually, now I know psychology was not the right pathway for me. I'm not necessarily interested in assessment and diagnosis and doing that sort of work. I work in a very different way, so counselling is very much the right pathway for me. I think I discovered it at the right time of life, too, and I'm so glad for my business that I had the other work experience around project management and event management, all those things that gave me a lot of other skills.
So I started studying counselling. And my sister and I grew up in a town called Armidale in New South Wales. We both left as soon as we could, when we were 18, it's very, very cold, and we travelled to different places, ended up in Sydney. But then my sister went on a trip around Australia and ended up back in Armidale, and she was trying to convince me to move back. I was like, I'm not going back, I'm not going back. But she's a graphic designer, and she happened to rent a space in a counsellor's office. She was like, you should just meet her and talk all things counselling, and see where it leads. So I went for a holiday, and met up with Mattie for a coffee. And she offered me a really good opportunity. She said, you can join the business as an associate, get your work experience done, and at the same time develop your own business. So that was really my entry point into business.
Danielle: That's so cool, wow.
Michelle: And so for two years, while I was finishing the bachelor and doing my work experience, I was working with her. And then, just after I handed in my last assignment, Mattie called me and said, can you come and meet me? I need to talk to you about something. We met at the office, and we were walking up for a coffee, and she told me: I've decided to close the business and move away. And just as she said that, this blue wren came and sat on the fence next to me. I looked at it, and I had just read the book Boy Swallows Universe, where "your end is a blue wren". It just popped into my head. So there I was: I'd moved there for this opportunity, I'd just graduated, I was ready to jump in, full on, and I was like, oh my goodness, what am I gonna do? One sleepless night later, Blue Wren was born. That was November. And then in January 2020, I launched.
Danielle: Whoa. It's like I've got PTSD. I refuse to even drink wine from 2020. I'm like, no, I just want to forget that year. The coolest year to go into business!
Michelle: Yes! I was really setting myself up. I got myself a little office, and I was like, I'm a local business, it's all about face-to-face work and building up my local network. That was the business model I had in mind. So I needed to get creative from the get-go.
Danielle: And I assume that's why now you also do video consults Australia-wide? Is that where it started?
Michelle: Not exactly. Yes and no. I find it so ironic now: I'd say probably 40% of my business is online now. But in COVID, I could not sell online to anybody.
Danielle: Oh, really?
Michelle: They were all Zoomed out. And they were in lockdown, so the whole family was there, and they didn't want to have those conversations with the whole family, or all the flatmates, around. So it was actually really, really hard at the time. And that's why I introduced Walk and Talk. We could stand far enough apart, be out in the fresh air. And one day, in the middle of the 2021 lockdown, I did 25,000 steps.
Danielle: Oh my god! Who knew business could have a positive impact?
Michelle: So I had to really adapt the business. And then, in moving from Armidale to Townsville three years later, I have a lot of my Armidale clients who have stayed with me. And interestingly, you get local people, or people from surrounding areas, who will use online because they think, well, if I'm in Townsville I can come in person, but I've got the two options.
Danielle: Yeah. And it is interesting, especially in your line of work, connecting with you is one of the most important things. I was referred to a therapist at one stage, and she's in Sydney, and I was in Brisbane at the time. But I travelled a lot to Sydney, so I met her in person initially, and then as COVID happened, I travelled less, so we'd do Zoom, then I moved to WA. But you don't want to let the person go, because do you know how hard it is to find a good therapist, or counsellor, someone you actually connect with?
Michelle: Yes. And I was a bit worried, because as I say, I built the practice face-to-face, and I couldn't sell online at the time. So when I was moving, I did have concerns: are they going to stay with me? There were a couple who said, no, I don't want to do online. But the majority, once you've formed that relationship and that connection, absolutely. I think it's the relationship.
Danielle: Oh, totally. And I'm just wildly fascinated by the walk and talk. I'd totally made the assumption that we all went online when COVID happened, but it makes so much sense that people wouldn't be comfortable having that level of conversation in a crowded house. A walk and talk is genius. I love the innovativeness of finding a solution when I would have said, oh yeah, just make everyone go on Zoom.
Michelle: Yeah, I had to get creative. And I actually think movement is great. Being out in nature, having the movement, walking is really good. I always have my best ideas when I'm walking. So I thought, this will help get people out of that feeling of stuckness, if there's some movement and momentum. Clients really, really liked it. But interestingly, it's done a flip since moving to Townsville. I have very few walk-and-talks now.
Danielle: Isn't that interesting, how business just evolves, and you have to meet your clients where they are.
Michelle: Yep. And in a way it's quite good that it shifted, because unfortunately, Sasha's brilliant within the office space, but she loves people and does not love other dogs. I can't really take her on the walk and talks, because she's a little bit yappy.
Danielle: Oh my god, that's hilarious. So then, what was the catalyst for developing a product?
Michelle: A couple of things. Number one, as I said at the beginning, the book has been there forever. I loved creative writing growing up, and I think there are a lot of us that go, I feel like I've got a book in me.
Danielle: Yes. I think I've been saying that for a decade now.
Michelle: In the beginning I thought it would be fiction. Then I was like, maybe it's more memoir, a personal experience. And then I realised how much of a self-help nerd I am. Everything I read and listen to is all about personal development, so I was like, no, it's going to be a personal development book. But then, the problem I had: I want people to really get the most out of this. And what I found is, I listen mostly to audiobooks now, and an audiobook will give me some insight about my current problem, or a client's current problem, and I'll take one or two things away, and then I won't ever read it again, because there are so many other books to read. I didn't want my book to just sit gathering dust and only provide one lot of insight. So I was trying to think of ways to make it more dynamic. And then I just had this flash where I went: it's not a book. Originally it was, it's not a book, it's a game. My grandparents, who I was really close to, I used to play cards with them all the time. And I went, it's a card game. That's what it is. And then as I was developing it, I realised it's actually a little bit more like tarot, not quite a game. So now I'm calling it a card deck. It's evolved. And I've got it here!
Danielle: Oh my god, I'm so excited! That looks so cool!
Michelle: This is it. So, Unstuck has a booklet.
Danielle: It counts!
Michelle: It does, yes! The booklet has all the different concepts inside it. It's based on the idea that we are often looking at our problems through a pretty single lens. We keep coming back and looking at it through the same lens, the same concept, and we don't really move forward when we're looking at it through a narrow lens. I wanted to shift perspective and help people get a lot more curious about their problems, before they move on to "how do I fix it, how do I get out?" Let's understand it and apply a whole lot of different lenses.
So the idea is, you hold your problem in your mind, and there are four different cards. There's a concept card. You flip that over, and this one has Circle of Concern as your concept, with the page number up the top, and you go to that page and read all about the concept. Each has a description, and then a "get curious", with different questions or activities specific to that concept, a different way for you to look at your problem. Your next card is a question card, with a question you ask in relation to your problem and that concept. This one says: how does this concept challenge my beliefs about the issue? You reflect on that, and then you move on to your action card, something that gets you to put it into action, do an activity of some kind. This one is: draw an image of the solution to the problem, inspired by the concept. And then finally, we have our mystery card, bringing in a little bit of symbolism. It's designed for whatever pops up for you, to see if it provides a little fresh insight. This one is playing cards, because that was the one that really brought the insight for me, and it has things like chance and choice, strategy, hidden potential, but it's whatever it represents or means to you. That's the basic idea, and you can play and experiment and find out what works for you.
Danielle: This is so incredible. And let me just say, for anyone listening, they're gorgeous as well. It's actually beautiful. I can tell you've been through quite a process, not only developing the concept but the physical product as well.
Michelle: Yes! Well, this is a good time for me to give a shout-out to my sister. My sister is my graphic designer, and we've worked as a team to create this product. She is amazing, she is behind how amazing it looks. I couldn't have done it without her.
Danielle: Wow, that is incredible. What's her name?
Michelle: Her name is Cass, Cassandra Hunt. She's a freelancer, and she just goes by Cass.
Danielle: Amazing. It's so incredible when you find people that support you and support your ideas. A lot of us are solo business owners, and we have to self-motivate and figure things out on our own, but it's so incredible when you find a person, or a community, or a supporter that helps you bring that vision to life. So incredible that you have her on your team. And when do these launch? When can we buy them?
Michelle: So, the website, I'm hoping, will be up any day now. I have a few at the moment that I'm selling to my clients in session. But any day, hopefully by next week, it will be up and running, and hopefully in time for Christmas. I've taken some time off to send these out and get them to people before Christmas.
Danielle: Oh my god, that's incredible. And by the time this episode comes out, it sounds like it's going to be live, so we'll make sure we have the link in the show notes so anyone can get their hands on them.
Michelle: Thank you! It's really exciting. So I've ticked my two goals now, my two teenage goals. Next year I've got to come up with a whole lot of new ones.
Danielle: Isn't that wild? It takes your whole life to windy-path, pivot, change direction, find a way through, and then you're like, oh no, I did everything I set out to do. What now?
Michelle: Yeah, it's a funny feeling. Like, oh wow, okay, I'd better quickly find some new things to put on the bucket list.
Danielle: Oh my god, I love it. But also, make sure we stop and celebrate, because it's absolutely incredible that you've ticked those two boxes. And how did you go about manufacturing the cards? I'm always fascinated by product-based businesses, because all the stuff I do is digital.
Michelle: So, I was actually very lucky. On my morning walks with Sasha, there's a neighbour I chat to each morning, and he publishes children's books. I told him what I was doing, and he said, oh, where are you getting them printed? I said, my sister's a graphic designer, she'll sort something out. And he said, I've got some really good connections in China, if you're keen. We looked into it, and really, it was easy to find places to get the cards done, but to actually get the box developed at an affordable price was the hard part. We found companies in China that already do these kinds of card sets and boxes, so I used his contacts. That's also why it's taken longer than I thought: there's been back and forth with China, getting samples sent over. I wasn't quite happy with the first one, so I needed a second sample. And I've got a lot more coming by ship, arriving soon.
Danielle: Oh my god, I'm currently waiting on a sample from China too, a physical addition to the Spark method and program. You're right, it takes friggin' forever! In the world we live in, which is so digital and immediate, product-based businesses are so much more time-intensive than you'd expect. I think people always feel like the grass is greener, service versus product, but they all present their own challenges.
Michelle: Yes. So now I'm learning how to integrate both.
Danielle: Exactly! Oh my god, this is so good. Now, we're recording this episode at the end of 2025, so I'm asking everyone: what's coming up for you? What's the big vision for 2026?
Michelle: So, Unstuck is part of a bigger picture and concept now. I see the deck as kind of a takeaway version of me in a box. It's based on the way that I do therapy, and I'm calling that the Unstuck Method. I'm looking to bring the Unstuck Method out in the way of workshops. They'll probably have different avenues, like Unstuck for Relationships. And, interestingly, I developed it for the general public, but I've started using it in session and I'm getting so much feedback that it's actually also a therapist's tool. So I'm going to be running workshops for therapists too, through my clinical supervision. That's one of the big things, bringing in training and workshops. And I've got ideas for some other products as well. I know what the second one is, and I'm hoping I might be able to get that out, but workshops are probably the first cab off the rank next year.
Danielle: Oh my god, I love it so much. And now I'm interested, since we're talking about a product called Unstuck: there are a few people I've been talking to lately, as we end the year, who are feeling a little stuck. Feeling like, I've just finished another year, and I don't know if I spent the entire year doing something I don't really care about. What's the plan for next year? Do you have any advice for anyone listening right now who's feeling a little stuck? Maybe a tiny step they might take to feel a little unstuck?
Michelle: Sure. I'm having the same conversation again and again at this time of year. Everyone is exhausted, everyone is burnt out. And it's really hard, when we're in this place, to get curious and come up with that energy when our batteries are low. So right now, my advice is: do all the self-care, do what you need to just re-energise yourself. Don't feel like you have to have the answers, don't make the big decisions yet. Do what you need to do to get to the end of the year, do the self-care, the basics. And then, once you've had the rest, once you've been able to reconnect, come into the new year… and buy Unstuck!
Danielle: I actually love that advice. I was equally feeling stuck, and I'm about to do a big location move. I'm a woman with a plan, I like a spreadsheet, I like the answers, I don't like not knowing what's happening. But I did have to check myself a little bit and say, now is not the time to be making big decisions and life changes. You just need to get there, and settle, and look after yourself and your energy, and then look at what's next. So sometimes not making decisions is a good decision?
Michelle: Yep. You have to pause. The pause is the most important part.
Danielle: Which is also very hard for us overachieving business owners.
Michelle: It is, I know. Very hard, but essential sometimes.
Danielle: Oh, I love it. I could talk to you all day, but I always like to wrap up these podcasts with one last piece of advice. So, reflecting on your time in business, what would be a piece of advice that you would give to another woman on her business journey?
Michelle: Yeah. So I absolutely think that you should lead with your heart, and not with your head. The head comes into it, but do something that you love. Follow your heart, make sure you love your business, because that's what gets you through. If you absolutely love what you're doing, then in the hard times, it will get you through. I think we can get so caught up in thinking about what makes sense, and we get so fear-based that it gets in the way. The head can come in for the little bits that help you know how to get there, and to be a bit realistic. But listen to your heart, listen to your intuition, and follow the little breadcrumbs about how to make the dream come true. Because, and I'm living proof, it doesn't happen overnight. It can take a couple of decades to get there. But if you do love it, it will get you through.
Danielle: Oh, that is absolutely incredible, Michelle. I could not agree with you more. Leading with your heart, absolutely loving what you do, and taking those next little steps. There is no overnight success, it's just staying in the game, and keeping our sanity, which is very hard sometimes! Michelle, thank you so much for sharing your story and your wisdom with the Spark community. That was absolutely incredible.
Michelle: No, thank you so much for having me.
