#awinewith Shaye Thyer
MEET Shaye Thyer, Founder of Pallas
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:05):
Oh my God, Shay.
Shaye Thyer (00:08):
Hey!
Danielle Lewis (00:09):
Welcome to spark TV. How are you?
Shaye Thyer (00:11):
I'm amazing, thank you. How are you going?
Danielle Lewis (00:14):
I am so good and I'm so excited that we hit record because we've just been talking for 20 minutes and I feel like we're just going to have just used up all of our goodness and not shared it with their lovely sparks.
Shaye Thyer (00:29):
Never, always more goodness.
Danielle Lewis (00:32):
Oh, so good. Now before we get back into our conversation, let's tell everyone who you are and what you do.
Shaye Thyer (00:39):
So my name is Shahi. I'm the founder and CEO of Wealths, and I help women leverage their business or use their business to create financial independence. So I'm a CFO by trade, and I've kind of boxed up a bunch of my experience and all of everything feminist and pointed that directly at all of the amazing women hustling super hard, and I guess I just want to help them not have to hustle so hard and get some of the foundations really great for them.
Danielle Lewis (01:15):
Yeah, I love that. Now, the finance world is a little scary for some people. What is financial independence? So when you say financial independence, what do you actually mean by that?
Shaye Thyer (01:31):
So at the risk of being a little bit polarizing, I think of, and let's be really inclusive, let's hear the inclusivity in what I'm about to say. A man is not a financial plan,
(01:51):
And so anything else kind of qualifies for financial independence in my view. So for me it's about not that I have a beautiful husband, he absolutely contributes financially now and a whole bunch of other things, but for me it's about if I absolutely have to or had to for any reason, could I do all of this on my own? And that's really important to me because when I was 30, I separated with the girl's dad. We were in a very unsafe environment and I was very fortunate to have my parents take me in. I literally made the decision to divorce all of my assets, all of my things, I'd had kids, so my super was awful. So I pretty much started from financial ground zero, and that's me as a chartered accountant with a financial advisor as a dad, with all of the financial literacy pretty much a person could have. And it was kind of because of that I realized that it's not so much about the knowledge, it's about the empowerment to apply it. My whole thing is yes, I want to help with skills, I want to help with knowledge, I want to help with all of that, but I also want to help with permission to prioritize financial independence
(03:15):
Because
(03:15):
Even so many incredibly smart, incredibly capable women still feel like they're not worthy of prioritizing that for themselves or for some reason they're concerned that it might threaten someone else that's in their life or whatever that is. Whereas the blokes are born with just an entitlement and it's completely normal for them to be financially independent. Like duh, they wouldn't even think
Danielle Lewis (03:42):
About as if you wouldn't be. Yeah.
Shaye Thyer (03:45):
So that's what it's about for me. And I think that women that run businesses have got a really unique opportunity to literally almost tomorrow we might have some tidy up work to do, but very, very soon and for the rest of their lives establish should maintain position of financial independence so that if they ever need a choice, they can make one.
Danielle Lewis (04:12):
I love that. It's really interesting because I think this just takes so many forms and I do love that you called out that you were a chartered accountant, had all of the education because it's really interesting. I think about as you are talking, I reflect on my previous relationship and at the end of that, and I think we have different language for things now in, I think a decade ago we didn't know about coercive control and all of that kind of stuff. But at the end of that relationship and five years later, the financial shit that I'm still dealing with, I sometimes say to myself, I'm smart. I'm really fucking smart. What the fuck happened to me? I was really good at school. I got an education, I got a university degree, I had a very high paying job. I then started a business, all of this stuff, and through interesting choices and bullying and little things that happened without my knowledge, I looked at this problem and I just went, how did I get here? And I love that you use the words of putting yourself into a position where for whatever reason, you could look after yourself, you could make decisions to walk away from a situation that wasn't serving you or your kids or whatever. And I just think there's so much power in that because we're not having those conversations. And there are really intelligent women who if they really looked at their circumstances, couldn't walk away
Shaye Thyer (06:12):
A hundred percent. And I hope that you don't, there's no shame in the learnings that we've grown up with. There's no shame in it. And I take a ribbing from people close to me who do it with love and say, why even that guy and how did you even eat there and blah, blah, blah. And I've
Danielle Lewis (06:36):
Done a lot of, it's like a frog being boiled. I always say to people, picture that analogy. That's the thing a hundred percent.
Shaye Thyer (06:42):
And it's like, yes, I'm super smart. Yes, I'm all those things. But in my early twenties, in my twenties, just generally, I had shocking self-esteem and I managed to pick a partner that weaponized that.
(06:58):
And it's all the classic textbook, as you said, coercive control coming from a place of his position of masculinity was under threat even though he would never have the language for that because that's just the kind of guy he is. But it's not something to feel shameful about. It's genuinely a learning thing. And I feel really grateful for that because one of my dear friends who actually was a mature age grad in a finance team that I used to run, he's got his own accounting firm now, and he's a brilliant human and he is always been a brilliant human. But I remember him saying to me even a couple of years ago, he goes, he used to be a mole. And so I'm grateful for all the things that I went through because I, I'm a different person and still we all are working through our stuff, but I am much more confident and have a much stronger sense of my worth and the value that I contribute to the world.
(08:04):
I've got a clear view of what I want to achieve in the world and why I want to do that. And really strong purpose. I never had any of that. I was very wrapped up in what other people think of me and it's really important and all of that kind of just what a crap. And so I hope that, I just hope that you don't feel that S word because it's nothing to be ashamed of. And it's so common I meet so many women, especially even in the financial space who are either money coaches or there's something else, or they've got this experience and then like, oh my God, I feel like such an idiot, but I really want to help other women not have that experience. And it's just so common, Hey,
Danielle Lewis (08:49):
Oh, it really is. And I do love that you say that not to feel shame and look would be lying if when things get hard or if I have to deal with an old issue that I don't have those feelings of frustration and why. But I also love that you have redirected your energy into creating and building something positive because I do feel the same. I feel like past Danny was kind of just going from thing to thing to thing and not really making any choices of my own. I was kind of just ticking the boxes, doing what I thought I was supposed to do. You go to uni, get a good job, you find a bloody boyfriend, you buy a house, do all the things. And I never felt happy. I was never in control of my choices. And yes, what transpired was fairly rubbish.
(09:49):
But you're right now I'm so intentional and I look back and I think perhaps without a negative experience, maybe I would've just kept going from thing to thing to thing and then woken up and being 70 and gone. What did I do with my life? So I almost think I am grateful for the experience because I too have come out the other side and gone, how did that happen? But it's now means that I operate in such a different way. So you've got to be, I guess you've got to look at the positive. You've got to take the win
Shaye Thyer (10:24):
A hundred percent. And I often giggle these poor men that have ended up with us, right?
Danielle Lewis (10:30):
Oh my God, I feel so sorry for my husband now
Shaye Thyer (10:33):
They knew what they were getting into. Oh my gosh, no, I am really grateful and I think I haven't met your partner, but certainly I was pretty deliberate in the kind of humans that I surrounded myself with after that time and really grateful for the beautiful human that I get to spend my time with as much as sometimes he's so gross and he is in motorsport, so he says the crass things ever. And sometimes they accidentally fly out of my mouth also, which is embarrassing, but it takes a special person, I think, to take on someone else's kids. Do you know what I mean? So my girls are my girls with my ex-husband and he's been part of their lives since they were two and four and is absolutely the best male role model in their lives without doubt. And now that they're 12 and 14, you can really see them start to see the world for what it is and see these humans around them for what they are also. So something really validating in that. Yeah. Anyway, I'm gushing.
Danielle Lewis (11:49):
No, I love it because that's probably the flip side to this conversation. I get mad about man bashing because there are amazing men on the planet and I have obviously had negative experience, so I feel like it'd be very easy for me to man bash, but my husband is the same. We got together when I was still dealing with all of that stuff and he had to go along for that ride and I was like, wow, this is pretty full on what you are dealing with and you are listening to. And I think any person getting into a new relationship doesn't really want to hear about the last relationship that much. So I think that there are great men out there, but I think that it comes back to what you said around that education piece. Know where you are at, know what you are in, and have a plan to be okay by yourself.
Shaye Thyer (12:52):
A hundred percent. I find that really tricky actually. Even when I was floating the concept of palace with some inner circle, there was a couple of guys in my circle in particular and each to their own. And the reason why I kind of socialize my ideas is because I want to be open to things that I don't think, do you know what I mean? And that whole thing of follow people that don't think like you and blah, blah. And one in particular said to me, everything you have said to me, I feel threatened to my core. And I was like, wow, really? Whoa. And I know that I can be very firm and can come off as very aggressive about the things that I'm passionate about, and I sense check that with all the bullshit that society tells us that if we're not warm and meek then we're not. All of that stuff. But he genuinely said to me, how are you going to work with a person that you are literally telling to protect themselves from their partner that they love? And it's like, I hear you, but that's also not the point. And my wrestle was with, if you are feeling threatened by the idea of your wife having her own money and her own choice, I feel like that's a you problem, not a she problem. And I
(14:19):
Can't market that way. Well, I probably could because men are not my target market clearly, but not my intention. I don't like to man bash either because I've got amazing men in my life. It doesn't change the fact that we live in a patriarchal society from which they benefit the minute they breathe air. Absolutely. It doesn't change the fact that we still struggle, especially us millennials with being strong and empowered and all the things that we were brought up with. But if we're in this kind of relationship, we probably live with men that weren't brought up that way and don't really know how to deal with us crazy empowered women and that then as well as a parent, we've got all this fear around how our daughters either how our daughters are going to stay safe in the world or how we help our sons be great humans rather than Andrew Tates or whatever. It's really tricky. And I know even today I got really razzed up actually while I was on my morning walk, which is supposed to be a mental health walk
Danielle Lewis (15:27):
That was supposed to be relaxing. I know
Shaye Thyer (15:29):
I legged at home because I wanted to practice my cut skills, which are wonderful and share something. And it was just literally stating facts. And I thought, this is going to be borderline man bashing, but it wasn't the intention I get a lot of feedback about, but surely you'd CFO for some men businesses because there's a more of them, and B, they make more money. I'm
Danielle Lewis (15:53):
Like, sure. Which is actually not a fact. But anyway,
Shaye Thyer (15:56):
Yes, it's like, and someone has even used the language with me before, why do you discriminate against men? And I feel like that was just trying to trigger me and it didn't. So whatever, but you like I, that's growth, hashtag growth. And then I went home and said, so said to me today, it's not doubt, it's discriminating against them. I think for me it's that I recognize that my industry is under serviced women since the dawn of time and it's my choice with my profession and with my experience and with all my skills to point it at a group of humans who I feel like are more in need. And that is literally it. The only reason I get raised eyebrows is because it happens to be women. Do you know what I mean?
Danielle Lewis (16:45):
Yeah. It's wild, isn't it?
Shaye Thyer (16:48):
Mental,
Danielle Lewis (16:49):
Oh my god. So where do we get started? If I am listening to this podcast and I'm thinking, you know what you are, if the world ended tomorrow, I'd be in a sticky spot. Where does somebody who might be, I guess having their eyes opened for the first time, where do we even start to go on the journey to financial independence?
Shaye Thyer (17:14):
So if we're a business owner, and I am kind of deliberate about staying in that lane because I'm not a money coach and I'm not a financial advisor that works with individuals and does investments and things like that, I do business, the first thing I would be suggesting is getting very clear on what you need to earn.
(17:36):
So
(17:38):
I've seen about 50 million reels on Instagram the last two weeks about what are your revenue goals and increase your sales to 30 a month and blah, blah, blah. But it's like who cares if you don't even know what you need to live on? Who cares if you don't even know what you need to survive? So the very, very first thing, I mean this is how I work with my clients is I love your big ideas. I love the impact you want to have on the world. I love all of that. We're going to do all of that. The first thing we need to do is get you paid. Because if you are not getting paid, then you don't have any money, you don't have any energy and you can't solve the big problem that you want.
(18:20):
And
(18:20):
So doing the kind of baseline activity that says, what do I need to live on? And perhaps it's not live in my big mansion in Brighton, it's what do I actually need to live on? If I had to do those numbers, work out what that number looks like for the year, whether that includes, and for me, because I've been a single parent before, having all of that cost yourself as well
(18:49):
Can be a bit scary, but just do the exercise, right? It's super interesting. So there's that and that then informs essentially what profit you need to be making from your business at a baseline level. And from there you can work up and go, cool. So what do I do? What services do I provide? What are the things I'm selling? What does that need to look like? And we can do an exercise that basically chunks that down and says, right, if I am, let's just say I'm a consultant. If I am a billing by the hour, how many hours do I need to bill? At what rate to be able to make this much money? Normally what happens at that point is maybe a bit of UPT truck because it's like they
Danielle Lewis (19:35):
Go, I physically can't work that many hours.
Shaye Thyer (19:38):
That is more hours than is in a year. And so this is why that first process is so important because it starts to antagonize the things that we've been told have to be away or the things the way we've always been doing things. So for people like me in financial services, it's hourly rate billing and all that kind of boring stuff. It's just, it's very limiting. So starting with that baseline of what do I actually need to earn and look, trying not to freak out, you're not there yet, I think as well is probably one B or one point A. Let's start a because it's okay, it's okay if you're not there yet. Actually understanding what it is is really important.
Danielle Lewis (20:24):
I love that so much because I think that sometimes, yeah, you're right. It's easier to say, I want to make a million dollars a year. Kind of like that's far enough away that there's no risk, no fear, no commitment. It's just a big lofty goal. Looking at where you are at and what you need to do to eat food is actually super confronting. There are people who don't open their bills because they're just too scared to look at them. I think that, I love that you start with what do we actually need here as the baseline? Because I kind of feel like that that can be a lot scarier for people.
Shaye Thyer (21:04):
I totally agree. In reality, so we've got 800,000 women owned business in Australia. Only 12% of those make more than a hundred thousand in revenue. So we're not even talking about profit yet. We're talking about revenue. Wow. Only 1% of those make more than a million dollars in revenue. It's a really small number. And then you've got the 0.0, zero, zero, whatevers that are Melanie Perkins and blah. So I really like the idea of having a very high level kind of five year north star. I love that for everyone. But if you can't build a scalable business that feeds you, then that's never going to happen.
(21:59):
And that's a really hard conversation because I'm very impact focused. I am purpose driven, I'm all the things and all I want to do is save the world. And when I started this and I was talking to my dad who's literally, he's my favorite human in the whole world, by the way, baby boomer, financial advisor, very clinical, all the things. He said, that's great. Well, I don't reckon you're going to make enough money. And I was like, how dare you. It's not just about the money, blah, blah, blah, but I was pitching. I would have these, just like my business model would essentially be very low barrier to entry, community based, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I would help women. I know there's so many women in that kind of demographic of business owner that also included our beautiful friends that make handles at the markets down the road that could genuinely probably never really at that stage, it's going to be tricky for me to be able to service them, but I needed to hear that. I needed to hear that my business model needs to serve me first before I go and save everyone else. And it's ironic because I'm the one preaching to all of my coaching clients that you need to put your own oxygen mask on first.
(23:22):
And
(23:23):
We don't do it with our financials. We are all learning about wellness and we're all learning about self-care and all of that stuff. And we are getting there. And I think we're starting to learn that oxygen mask on theory with our health and energy and stuff, but financially still forgetting to do that thing.
Danielle Lewis (23:46):
And I'm like, what's coming up for me is knowing your numbers is self-care. Do you know how fucking stressful it is when you get to the end of the month and you don't have any money? It's the worst. I just had a meeting with someone who's had to let their employee go and they were like, I just couldn't bear the stress of how am I going to make sure not only I eat, but my employee eats? And I was like, yeah, it is so stressful. If you don't have your finances in order, the money, stress, finance, stress is some kind of next level stress that blocks everything. If you are worried about money, you are so right. Impact, creativity, inspiration, wanting to get out of bed in the morning, all the things become so much harder. So I love the idea of getting your head around your numbers and putting your oxygen mask on first is the ultimate form of self-care.
Shaye Thyer (24:47):
I can see a one post Insta post
Danielle Lewis (24:51):
On that. I can see it too
Shaye Thyer (24:54):
From me, a very amateur social media person. My gosh, talk about a learning curve at 42, nearly. Oh my God,
Danielle Lewis (25:05):
That's hilarious. Isn't it funny, you start a business and you're like, I am an amazing expert in my field, and all of a sudden I am now all of these other roles, then I'm starting from intern level.
Shaye Thyer (25:18):
Totally. And that's such a good point. And one of the things that I have never liked about the way that I was brought up in my industry was it felt very elitist. And unless you're at a certain size, we certainly couldn't service you and dah, dah, dah.
Danielle Lewis (25:35):
It
Shaye Thyer (25:35):
Also just the language that's used, particularly accountants, CFOs, anyone in that space, it's so jargony that it doesn't help people that are learning. And that's one of the things that I try really hard at. And look, I fall back into 50 different acronyms all the time and always give my clients permission to be like, stop it, stop doing that. But it's important because I have no idea about followers and social media and algorithms and all the things, and I'm okay learning from people that do. And I recognize that in my clients, they're great at their thing. So they might be a HR consultant or they might be a marketing agency, or they might be whatever they are that they're amazing at. And it's okay not to be amazing at your finances. You can learn and I can help you.
Danielle Lewis (26:29):
Yes. I love that. I know, I dunno why we think when we become business owners that we're supposed to be experts at everything.
Shaye Thyer (26:41):
So not, and that's why this is going to be, I'm not intending to brown nose, but I'm actually very grateful communities like Spark and other communities where there are people that are so good at their craft that can wrap around other business owners and be like, I can top you up here. I can top you up there. It's okay. You don't have to do it all yourself. That's like my favorite thing. And that was my first kind of iteration. I was like, I'm going to have an app and then I'm going to have these amazing bucket of women that we all help other business owners do this and all the money is going to stay within women in business and blah, blah, blah. And it's kind of what
(27:20):
Happens,
(27:22):
But it's just that idea that we are going to be brilliant at anything is ridiculous. Okay. Not to be amazing at everything. Being amazing at the thing that makes you all the money. Please do that. Yes, absolutely. Yes.
Danielle Lewis (27:39):
It's so true. And I'm always blown away at how, so a women don't like asking for help, but B, women want to help. Everybody else wants to lift you up, wants to support you, wants to give you all the tips and tricks, wants to, oh yeah, you just do it like X, Y, z. I do that every day. Women are so here to help and support, but women have a hard time asking for it.
Shaye Thyer (28:06):
You're so right. And oh my gosh, I was just thinking about, because I've got this program that starts at the end of the month and I've been thinking about how I frame some of this because part of it is learning about who your partners need to be and what you should expect from them. So in my space, it's about what the heck is even a next accountant meant to be doing for me, what even is a bookkeeper, and it's kind of clinical, but there's so many blurred lines and there's so much misunderstanding that I just thought that would be really useful to clarify. But the thing is giving them permission to ask them to do the thing for you. Oh my God, it's such a big bucket. It happens at home, right? I work from home, so I've got proximity to the laundry. No, no. We both work full time, right?
(29:03):
Me having, and this took me a really long time too. Don't worry. Me actually asking, I need you to own some more of this stuff from home was a huge process. I know. I just rushed about how spectacular my husband and he is, and the reason he's is because maybe not in the moment, but he definitely hears where I am and he acknowledges that my feelings are real. He has his own feelings too, and he's not like a unicorn or anything, but he will say, I am the boss of thing. The flip side of that is you're not allowed to come in the laundry, don't tell me how to do it.
(29:47):
So I think that's kind of fair trade, but it's just that whole process of deciding, especially after that yucky time where my natural instinct was I need to be in control of everything, which means I do everything myself, absolutely everything myself. The girl's dad, I'm still the default parent across two houses, right? He's just useless. So actually letting people help me was so scary because I was so afraid that I would become reliant on that, and then if it ever fell over that I'd be up shit creek. But actually the other side of that is how nice does it feel to offload that? How enabling is that? And actually how necessary? So necessary.
Danielle Lewis (30:39):
Yeah, and I just think there's so many layers to it, whether it is literally just asking your Spark community for, has anyone got a contact or does anyone know how to solve this problem? To asking your partner to support more in the home, to outsourcing something. When I do in our monthly CEO time, I do a bit of journaling, and one of the things that I write down is the more I outsource, the more I grow. So it is that just to get used to the fact that, yeah, it's okay to let go of things and it's okay to have other people support you because it is really interesting. I think that at the very beginning we went financial independence. If everything fell to pieces tomorrow, we could just go, go, go. But it's like that doesn't mean that you need to do everything. I love that we've come to this other end of the distinction, that it doesn't mean that you already carry the weight of the world on your shoulders. Now. It is the awareness of what you need in your life. It is the awareness of what money do I need to eat to support my family to set up my financial future. It is almost starting with that awareness. It doesn't mean carrying the weight of the world, and it does mean leveraging the people around you.
Shaye Thyer (32:03):
A hundred percent. And just in case we weren't clear, man is not a financial plan.
Danielle Lewis (32:11):
I love that phrase so much. Oh, so good. Shay, you are absolutely incredible. Now, I always love to wrap up these podcasts with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on your time in business, what would be a piece of advice that you would give to another woman on her business journey?
Shaye Thyer (32:34):
I hope you edit out the thinking time. I do. Well, not in the real podcast, in the Real. I know, I know. I know. Two, okay. It's actually very easy starting out. You need to build a business model that feeds you first before you save the world.
Danielle Lewis (33:04):
I love that so much. You're incredible. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your story and your wisdom. So many gold nuggets in there, and I can't wait to have you back.
Shaye Thyer (33:21):
Thank you. Thank you for having me. This is fun.
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