#awinewith Rachel Harker
MEET Rachel Harker, Founder of Tribal App
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:05):
Amazing. Rachel, welcome to Smart tv. I'm so excited to have you here.
Rachel Harker (00:10):
Thanks for having me. How are you going today?
Danielle Lewis (00:13):
Oh my gosh, so good. I was just commiserating that my to-do list was already too long as we start off the year, but things are good. I feel like everyone's got a good energy about 2025. How are you feeling?
Rachel Harker (00:27):
I'm good. I'm really excited for 2025 as well. Tribal will be launching, it'll be live this year, so that is a very exciting kind of milestone for me to be reaching. Very busy in the lead up to it, but it's an exciting busy because I'm so passionate about it.
Danielle Lewis (00:47):
Oh my God, that is so cool. So then let's start out by telling everyone who you are and what tribal is.
Rachel Harker (00:53):
Yes. So my name's Rachel. I'm a clinical psychologist by background and I'm the founder of Tribal. So Tribal is essentially a friendship and dating app, but it's really based on psychology and it's all about combating loneliness in the improving social connection, trying to use technology in a really positive way. So the profile build and the questions are all around compatibility and values, and that's how people are matched and brought together. And I guess the psychology behind that is having aligned values is the key to any lasting friendship or relationship. You can have quite different personalities, but you've got to have aligned values and it's just quite different to what's currently on offer. Really trying to just eliminate that kind of superficial swipe culture. So that's one of the key features. Another key feature is that photos are actually blurred for 72 hours, so you get the kind of idea of what the person looks like, but having the blurry photo just helps build that authentic, deeper connection without having that initial superficial judgment, I guess, trying to mimic real life. I don't know if you've ever had this happen to you. Have you ever met someone before? Thought they were like, okay looking, being someone attracted to them, but gotten to know them and that attractions built?
Danielle Lewis (02:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
Rachel Harker (02:13):
Yeah, so the current apps don't really allow for that, so that's what we're trying to mimic within the app. And then we also have voice memos. You can actually hear someone's voice before you see their photo.
Danielle Lewis (02:24):
That's so cool. I mean, it's so interesting because, so I'm a child of a meeting man at Bar and getting married, but I had a brief period of going onto the apps and doing the swiping things and seeing the people and talking to 'em, and I was like, I discussed this at length with my husband as well. And it's like when you meet someone in real life, you do have that attraction. You do talk about things, you don't have a checklist in your head, you're just kind of getting to know them. You're getting the vibe. And I feel like with apps these days, people kind of come in with a checklist so they don't even give people a shot. So I just love the idea that you are offering these features that are going to help people go a little bit deeper into who someone might actually be first before we dismiss them.
Rachel Harker (03:20):
Yeah, a hundred percent. And especially for the friendship side of things. So you can sign up and you'll say, I'm looking for a friend or a partner, and you're kind of channeled to either platform, but friendships really shouldn't be swiping on a photo either, and just loneliness. It's such an issue at the moment. So just helping people connect funny they tried. Right.
Danielle Lewis (03:41):
Yeah, I love it. I mean, it's really interesting. I moved to a regional town three years ago and that's so interesting because it is really hard, especially as you get older to meet new people and create these new friendships and you do have to go through a lot of trial and error. I joined the Chamber of Commerce and businessy groups to just meet random people, but I think having a platform where you can actually talk about values, connect with people, I just think it's genius. How did you come up with this?
Rachel Harker (04:14):
Good question. It was actually three or four years ago now. I had two concurrent things happening at the same time. At work in my professional life, I was seeing so many lonely young people. In my previous job I worked with young adults, so a lot of 18 to 25 year olds that just didn't have a person in their life. And of all the things that really tugged on my heartstrings that did, it's like at that age you shouldn't be lonely. And sometimes between sessions, they might not have spoken to anyone else.
Danielle Lewis (04:48):
Wow.
Rachel Harker (04:49):
Yeah, I was just seeing it more and more. I was at my odd job for a decade and over the decade I was there, it was just skyrocketing, kind of the loneliness in young people. But then on the flip side, everyone was on devices, but more disconnected than ever before, so something kind of was going wrong somewhere in that sense. And then in my personal life, I have a few single friends that are on the dating apps and all just reporting the same thing, superficial. It's transactional. They'll download them all, go on them for a few months, get burnt out, and then delete them and then start that cycle again. These two things were going on in my mind I was like, what if there's a way to make an authentic dating app or a friendship app? And it just kind of came to me. So I was working on it very much as a side hustle for quite a while. I also have young kids myself, so I had a baby in this time, but it's in the last 12 months I've really gone in a lot deeper and I've kind of giving it 110% now.
Danielle Lewis (05:47):
That's so cool. And I mean, it makes so much sense when you are hearing consumers issues, it kind of makes you wonder sometimes why someone hasn't thought of this already.
Rachel Harker (05:59):
Yeah, yeah, I've had that thought a few times. There's definitely some niche apps coming out there, but as far as I know from my research, there's nothing that's really using psychology in the way that I am.
Danielle Lewis (06:11):
Totally. And it makes so much sense. We have so many conversations around social media and apps and dating apps and all those things and about how it's never been so easy to talk to people and yet we are so lonely and disconnected. So yeah, I just think it's amazing.
Rachel Harker (06:31):
Yeah, yeah. I mean the World Health Organization has labeled loneliness, the next epidemic. It's worldwide.
Danielle Lewis (06:38):
Wow, that's crazy. So how have you gone from psychologist to tech entrepreneur? What was that process like?
Rachel Harker (06:49):
Great question. I've learned a lot over the past, even just the past six months. So a few years ago, maybe 18 months or so, I was like, right, I want to get this app built, but all I'd done was drawn kind of sketches of what I wanted in it and the values component. So I did a bit of research. I found a company based down in Melbourne that build apps and I got in touch with them and started that process. It was quite slow, but then at the same time, as I said before, I also had a baby and was working full time. So there was times it was kind of slow for me to dedicate too much time to it. So that process went on for about 12 to 18 months, and as I guess I started talking about it more, doing some market research, it was just getting really hard to juggle my full-time job and building kind of tribal and the app and having a family as well. So I think something had to give at some point.
(07:51):
We had bootstrapped the build of the app ourselves, so I was kind of thinking, I'm so passionate about it, we've invested money into it. Do I take a leap of faith and resign? And I'd had mixed advice for a little while. Someone like, don't resign until you're kind of making money or getting traction with your new kind of venture. But then at the same time, I couldn't make any progress with the app and with Tribal whilst I was juggling a full-time job, so my husband and I sat down and made the decision that I would resign. So it was daunting, but I was also kind of ready for it. I'd been at my previous job for 10 years by that point, so it was definitely the end of an era, but something that I'm so passionate about tribal that I was kind of ready to go all in.
(08:41):
So that was a few months ago now and it's funny, the week after that happened, new opportunities opened up so so much has changed. I actually was at South by Southwest in the startup village there, which was a really opportunity and from that I met someone who is a husband wife team that build apps websites, have a team of developers in India, and I've actually handed over the tech side of the app to them, so I kind of took it away from the Melbourne company, handed over to them, have a tech team on board, and they are just taking the app to another level. The AI features, the psychology behind it, the recommendations. It's all just so different from the initial, the initial app that was built so minute, a delay in launch, but it was for all the right reasons. So that has been a really exciting development, but I've learned so much along the way. I don't have a tech background whatsoever. I'm a clinical psychologist. My whole career had been kind of one-on-one therapy work and working in a mental health service. So it is been exciting, but I've learned a lot.
Danielle Lewis (09:56):
No, it's always really interesting. There's so many sometimes horror stories with technology, especially with non-tech founders. When they do, you do have to trust, I guess, your tech team. But it sounds so exciting and now that you've got these guys on board and it sounds like if they're talking AI and all those kinds of things that they're probably the right partner to take it to the next level and
Rachel Harker (10:26):
A hundred percent. Yeah. When I showed my husband the first kind of screenshots and draft of some stuff they had done, he kind of summed it up perfectly. He was like, the previous guys were good, but these guys have really managed to take your idea and execute it in such an amazing way. And I think that's just kind of sums it up. We're a good team. I'm like, I'm really happy with what's been produced and built so far, and fingers crossed we're looking at a February launch.
Danielle Lewis (10:54):
Oh my God, that is so exciting. You'll have to keep us up to date so we can share it with everybody.
Rachel Harker (10:59):
Definitely.
Danielle Lewis (11:00):
That will be so cool. No, that's just so exciting. And I love how you said the minute you resigned, opportunities came after, put yourself in a situation at South by Southwest where you could meet other people. I think that that's really important in business is to put yourself out there. I think it's super scary, but you have to do it hundred percent.
Rachel Harker (11:21):
Yeah, you've got to have a yes attitude. In the past few months, I've had so many meetings and coffees and catch-ups with people from just such different backgrounds, all kind of in the startup tech finance world, but just different expertise, different backgrounds, and every single conversation I've learned something from and taking something from it, and I just couldn't do that when I was in an office nine to five.
Danielle Lewis (11:45):
Yeah, that is the hard thing when you are doing it as a side hustle is just the time you're so right. It's like if you've got a nine to five and you're traveling eight to six, it doesn't leave a lot of room for actually having a coffee with anybody, does it?
Rachel Harker (12:01):
No.
Danielle Lewis (12:01):
No. Oh, that is so good. I love it. Do you think that you'll raise capital or are you planning on continuing to bootstrap?
Rachel Harker (12:08):
We bootstrap. We did a friends and family round, which was super fortunate to have the opportunity to do that. From all advice I've been given and also that I agree with is to delay the capital raise as long as possible. So we will do one, but it will be some point this year after we're live, once we've got users, hopefully some traction, some things to show in a capital raise as well. So answer is yes, but I'm going to delay it as long as possible.
Danielle Lewis (12:39):
Yeah, I love that. We raised capital for my other business scrunch, and we raised three times actually, and I'm always say to people, try to limit it and put it off. I think you've got such the right attitude getting out there, bootstrapping, being able to show that traction. The landscape in venture capital has changed so much over the last five years with Covid. They want to see that traction and profitable business. I think 10 years ago you could just have a whim and an idea and they would back it, but now you're like, it's got to be really solid. So that's awesome.
Rachel Harker (13:17):
How exciting It is. So exciting. I guess what I'm doing is a little bit different. Sometimes people here, when I say it's a friendship and dating app based on psychology, they kind of lump me into the dating app category straight away. So it has taken a bit of convincing of a few people, but once I've managed to sit down and explain it to them, so far everyone's come round. But it is just something to be mindful of no matter what your idea is, sometimes you might have people that dismiss you quite quickly.
Danielle Lewis (13:43):
Totally. And when you're doing something new, there is that education process. I remember my other business scrunch, it was influencer marketing, trying to tell an investor who was an old white man, what an influencer was. I had to start by explaining what an influencer was before I could even get to the technology. So when you're kind of pioneering a category, you've really, it does take a long time. You do have to go through that process with everyone, whether it's an investor, an employee, a partner, like anything. So yeah, that's super exciting.
Rachel Harker (14:18):
Yeah. Yeah, it is.
Danielle Lewis (14:20):
How are you going to launch? Do you have any plans? Is it soft launch, big bang? What are your thoughts for February?
Rachel Harker (14:27):
Yeah, great question. So my thoughts at this stage is I'd love to do a launch event. Funds and costs will come into that. So we're just kind of figuring it out at the moment. There's a really great social media team on board, and I've got a PR agent as well. So I guess a large part of tribal and an app being successful is users. We need users. If you log on and there's not many people on it, it's not going to be very enticing. So really building awareness now, and that started last year, building a social media following, just getting the name out there. So that will continue for the next kind of month or so, and then closer to launch, we'll consider really upping that and thinking, do we have funds to have an event or some more kind of bigger launch?
Danielle Lewis (15:17):
That's so cool and so smart. Building a community early, being able to have a community to launch too is so important these days.
Rachel Harker (15:30):
Yes, yes it is. That's kind of going to be the thing that makes your business survive or not.
Danielle Lewis (15:34):
Yeah, totally. Totally. I think it's really interesting. It doesn't matter what industry you're in, what business you have, you've got to have customers, you've got to have users, you've got to have people that care about your mission. Yeah. And social media obviously key part of the strategy, I think you have to do that as well. Every person, whether they are 10 or a hundred is on social media in some capacity. So super smart to build the community there as well. Are you doing much around you as the personal brand and anything kind of for you? Or are you putting it all behind the brand? What's your strategy? There's
Rachel Harker (16:13):
Actually a mixture of both. So some is just pure kind of branding stuff around dating, friendship, loneliness, kind of covering the key topics. And now as we're getting closer to launch, it's kind of turning to me a little bit more about why tribe, what is loneliness, what are values? I'm putting a face to the brand as well, so a mixture.
Danielle Lewis (16:38):
Awesome. How do you feel about that? How are you feeling about putting yourself out there?
Rachel Harker (16:44):
I was super nervous at first because I'm just not used to that, and it takes a bit of practice. I actually did my first live TV news.
Danielle Lewis (16:56):
Wow, cool.
Rachel Harker (16:57):
Yesterday of all times on two pretty big news channels, and it was pretty nerve wracking. And of course you watch yourself and you're cringing and you're like, oh, I could have answered that so much better. But it's just about practice, and I can recognize that I think what I produced, and when I watched it back, I was happy with it. I don't think I did terribly, but I know I could have done better. So it really is just about practice and repeated exposure, if that answers your question. That was a very long Oh, totally. No, no, no.
Danielle Lewis (17:30):
It was so good. It's so true, right? I think, I mean, it's funny, even after you do practice heaps of things, sometimes you just have those days where you're feeling a bit blur about yourself and oh my God, watching yourself. Do you know, I never watch these podcasts back. I'm like, I don't want, whatever happens on the recording
Rachel Harker (17:49):
Happens on the recording. Yeah. I did a radio interview around Christmas time with kind of loneliness, and I tried to listen to it back just for my own feedback to learn how did that go, and just listened to it. I was like, oh gosh, I'm dying a little bit inside. As I always listen to this,
Danielle Lewis (18:06):
I know I always think that, I'm always like, I should listen. I should watch. I should improve. But I think that just once you do it again and again, you pick up your own improvements, you kind of know what you could do better. So yeah, I'm never going to watching these again. Anyway,
Rachel Harker (18:24):
I think that's such a good point. I think if you take that moment to reflect and be like, how did that go? What do I need to practice for next time? That's such a key part. I think for me, I go in with say, 10 points I want to make, but I might only make four or five of them think, okay, how do I get more succinct at getting the message across in a shorter timeframe?
Danielle Lewis (18:44):
Yeah, that's so good. I mean, this is such a good lesson just for anything. I was just thinking about when I was capital raising, I had no idea how to do it. Literally the first time I sat in front of someone, I was like, oh my God, what are these questions that they're asking me? And then I was like, oh, every person asked the exact same questions. So wrote a list, wrote all the answers out, kind of learned them, and then could start being really confident and saying the right words. To your point, having those talking points so that when somebody does ask a particular question, you've got the stuff in your mind to make it a little bit easier on yourself
Rachel Harker (19:22):
And practicing it aloud so it's not the first time you're saying it when you're in a room with someone. Really important.
Danielle Lewis (19:28):
Yeah, that is so good. It feels weird doing it, but it's such a good idea. Well, this is so exciting, and I'm so glad you've come on to share your story with us. I always love to wrap up these podcasts with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on your time in business, what would be a piece of advice that you would give to another woman on her business journey?
Rachel Harker (19:53):
My piece of advice, something that I've found really helpful in the past few months since I've kind of jumped all in, and that is just having that yes attitude and saying yes to every meeting, every opportunity, every catch up, even in the back of your mind, if you're like, I'm not sure how relevant that's going to be to me, just say yes. Because you never know what you'll learn, the connections you make, the people that will remember you. So I think spread your wings as far as you can, and just that yes attitude.
Danielle Lewis (20:26):
You are absolutely incredible. Rachel, thank you so much for coming on the Spark podcast. I can't wait for the launch and I can't wait to have you back on to hear how it's all going as well.
Rachel Harker (20:39):
Awesome. MEChA. I can't wait to come back and give you an update.
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