#awinewith LJ Harries
MEET LJ
LJ is the Founder of EQ Sales.
Find LJ here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:10):
Amazing. lj, thank you so much for being here on Spark tv.
LJ Harries (00:16):
Thank you so much, Danielle. I'm excited to be here and to meet you.
Danielle Lewis (00:20):
Yeah, obviously you were referred my way when we were looking for a podcast guest and then of course when I delved into your business a little bit, I was like, oh my God. Yes. Need you on the show? Need you sharing your wisdom with the Spark community. So why don't we start out with what is EQ sales? What is your business?
LJ Harries (00:42):
Absolutely. So my business evolved, but at the moment what it is, it's really, look, I think if you ask anybody what do they think of sales culture, they will probably go IIC in a word. And I think a lot of people resonate that. So EQ was a real deliberate title for me to really change that. I am very much of a different ilk of a lot of my peers. Sales has been run by and in a stranglehold by older men for a long time, and it has really sort of shaped an icky sales culture because a lot of salespeople don't get taught how to have proper communication strategies and how to have meaningful conversations that aren't relating to pushing people to buy things. So EQ was really a way for me to go out on my own and explore ways to help people see sales differently, and particularly young people and women, people are really scared of it and sales isn't scary, it's just learning how to influence. And I think it's so important for people to know how to do that. Being able to do it for commercial benefit is also an extra value. So the EQ is really just about understanding that sales is not as tough as people think it is. It's not as hard edged as people is and it's not as underhanded. It can be, but it doesn't have to be.
Danielle Lewis (02:02):
I love that so much. And look, the listeners into Spark TV are all female founders, small business owners, startups. So the biggest thing we preach is that sales is the number one skill that you need in your life. So I'm so excited to dive into that. But how did you get there? So how did you decide to start the business? Was there a career beforehand or other businesses? What's the story?
LJ Harries (02:31):
There was a big career. It sort of shifted a lot. I started in working in advertising agencies and I love the art of advertising, which is when you think about the purpose of advertising, it is to sell things. So I worked in agencies learning the science and the behavioral science of that and understanding bias and communication, storytelling and all those wonderful things that help advertisers get people aligned to their brand and purchase their products. And then I moved into more marketing roles and PR roles, and I kind of fell into sales. A lot of people I sort of tapped on the shoulder and suddenly I was like, oh, I'll give it a shot. And what I noticed was that where marketing taught me price psychology and messaging and storytelling and community engagement and whatnot, sales kind of put me in a seat and gave me a budget and said, go get it with little else as a tool.
(03:24):
So part of my learning and growing and sort of working up that leadership chain, I got to a point was like, you know what? There's just not enough here to help people and I understand it a lot more than I did and I'm going to go out and I'm going to quit people in the way that I was thought was really relevant and meaningful. And just about two and a half years ago, I went and did that right before covid, which actually worked in my favor, believe it or not. I was one of the lucky ones.
Danielle Lewis (03:51):
Yeah, so we'll talk about that. So starting a business right at the start of covid, interesting timing, but I'm thinking because you were able to do it remotely, all of those things, people need sales in the time of pandemic. So how did it play out for you?
LJ Harries (04:09):
Yeah, well it was sort of a couple months before I was traveling and then that obviously was cut short and it really helped. So when I first started the business, I didn't really know too much the business model, but I knew that I used behavioral science and storytelling and sort of leadership and soft skills as a way to drive sales as opposed to sort of hard line metrics and a hundred calls a day. That was never my style and never will be. And I started by creating content and I was very brave. I put my face out there and I started creating them on videos just so I could get cut through. And I was lucky in a way that everyone suddenly had really terrible production ballet. It wasn't just me, everyone was filming in their bedrooms. And that was kind of what I meant by being easily equipped because I was able to do it at a really low execution way and get away with it. And it did open it up straight away. I was able to pick up international clients because that was very quickly a mind shift in the industry that you don't need to be face to face. And I'm now shifting again to a more mass digital because it's by far more scalable.
Danielle Lewis (05:19):
And it's interesting as it evolves. So obviously starting out in business you have one idea of how everything will look, but you kind of are experimenting. I mean it's almost like a sales process. You're finding what works, what stories connect, what resonates. Same thing in business.
LJ Harries (05:37):
Absolutely. And the more I go into big organizations, the more I realize that I know more than I give myself credit for and that no one really has it down and it blows my mind. You get so at the start you are like, oh, I don't have the experience, I don't have the time in the seat or in my own business. And the more you go out and do it, the more you realize how valuable you actually are if you meet more and more people, especially in big businesses. And I think that there's a real swing, particularly in sales supporting small businesses because this is an industry where not a lot of people love what they do. So passion really sells itself. If you can talk about what you do with passion, that's all sales is because it's infectious. And that's worked in my favor many, many times now.
Danielle Lewis (06:31):
That's so good. I love that because you are spot on. A lot of people hate it and females for some reason, especially I think like you said, a lot of, I think every course I ever took around sales was delivered by an old white, probably American guy
LJ Harries (06:47):
And it's like a sales funnel and it's, it's not even relevant. I mean people, my generation and younger, we don't really use phones in the same way. So to put a 22-year-old in a desk with a phone and tell 'em to make 50 calls, they're absolutely shitting bricks because it's not a tool they use anymore. And I think that more and more there's that disparity and divide between understanding and realization from what is actually needed and we have to evolve. And remote learning has driven that as well. But I think a lot of big businesses are not going back to full-time in the office. There's a lot of old school leaders who are really shy of that change and frustrated by that change so different to them. And it's interesting because that's how people coming into businesses feel when they feel that there's antiquated practices and that's not involving with us. So it's a really interesting time and it's exciting because it teaches you have to be a better communicator digitally because there's so much noise. I mean I imagine some of the LinkedIn messages you would get, they're all the same. People don't even, it's Hi, nice to meet you by my stuff. It's like, let's just start by you, show me what you understand about me and then I'll give you my time.
Danielle Lewis (07:58):
Exactly. And look, let's dive into that a little bit because people listening in, if they're feeling a little bit like, yeah, I don't really want to sell my wares or I believe in the problem I'm solving so much, but I don't really know how to start getting it out there. Are there a few kind of low barrier to entry tips that feel good that small business owners might able to get the head around?
LJ Harries (08:24):
Absolutely. And you really nailed it. To sell is to solve. And if you can't frame the problem well enough, start there. If you want to hang a picture on the wall, you don't go to buy a drill, you go to find a solution to putting a hole in the wall. They say sell the hole, not the drill. So don't sell the problem, sell the product, sorry, don't sell the product, sell the problem. And people will naturally come to you for that product. And so you talk about LinkedIn, I know that's how we connected. That is a huge, huge, incredibly powerful networking tool and that's what it's about. It's about networking. It's about developing relationships in a digital space in order to be able to translate them to an offline environment and be smart with your profile. Talk about the why you do what you do, talk about what it is that sparks passion in what you do.
(09:15):
Because once you really double down on that, there will be someone that resonates it in sales. We say talk to everyone and sell to no one. Don't be afraid to be really specific about the problem that you solve. So for me it was changing sales culture and helping people feel comfortable with soft selling. And that speaks to a lot of people, even though it feels really niche in the environment that I work in and then just be bold with it. I was very terrified. I still kept my first video. Someone said to me as an entrepreneur, keep a benchmark of how far you've come and reference it because that's such a good idea. It feels like you're always sort of looking into this horizon with so far to go. So I kept my first video and it was very shy. There was a bathroom towel hanging in the background. I just look back now and I just think, oh my goodness. But that was a strategic decision of mine because video gets good traction and the moment you start talking about what you do, people can see that it brings you joy and people really connect with it. So don't be afraid. That's probably solve the problem you solve. Have passion, have belief in what you do deliver well. And honestly that's all sales is.
Danielle Lewis (10:28):
I love it so much because I think you are spot on When you think about the sales culture, sales trainings, it is all very technical funnels, but it does really come back to the passion you have for solving something and then the customer that you're selling it to. And so if you can bridge the gap by building an amazing relationship, and I love how you just said it's just communication. It's just having a conversation that is such a great way to frame it
LJ Harries (10:58):
And ask questions. I think in sales we think that when we get an opportunity to talk about what we do, it's all about us and it's actually not. It's about your buyer. And if you totally understand the problem you solve, the next step is what are the questions you need to ask to uncover that? And then how can, all you have to do is ask the right questions, get people to talk about that they have this problem, and then suddenly the conversation flows naturally about, well, I can actually help you with this. So really sit there. If you're a small business owner, sit there and define the problem really succinctly. Make it super simple. Communicate it in a way that a five-year-old can understand what you need to make progress. And then go, what are the questions that I can ask when I communicate with people or when I am creating LinkedIn content that get people thinking, I think this is a problem for me and you can help them understand the risk and drive some urgency. And then you can frame the importance and the value of whatever your solution is. And you'll find that once you ask the right questions, you're so behind your product that you naturally want to help. What we do as small business owners, we want to fix the world in some way. Yes, we
Danielle Lewis (12:08):
Want to change the world. Yes, that's it.
LJ Harries (12:11):
So focus on questions, questions, questions. And whatever you do do it is far more beneficial for you to spend the first meeting with somebody asking questions and getting to know them. Even if you walk away and you feel like you didn't get a chance, it doesn't matter because they're going to feel good because you listened. They're going to have dopamine hid their brain when you listen. So they already feel like there's affinity. And then when you follow up for another meeting, you've got some really, really valuable information to actually go and frame and align your solution to. And then people are much more likely to meet you again, which is what you are. Whereas if you meet someone and you talk at them for 20 minutes, they walk away thinking this person doesn't care. They don't understand and they certainly, why would I do anything with them when they have no sort of interest in understanding me?
Danielle Lewis (12:57):
Absolutely. I love that so much. It's so simple, but it is such an industry that people have such really do get their backup around. But I just love how you have framed that you literally talked through an entire sales process and none of it felt shit, that's it. None of it felt shit. It all felt
LJ Harries (13:17):
Amazing in my logo. I have an ENAQ and a Q is a speech bubble because to me sales is just a series of successful conversations and that's it. And it's not anything underhanded and it's okay not to, you don't have to sell if it's not the right person. Have an abundance mindset. There's plenty more people. You've just got to target better. You've got to find them better. You've got to ask better questions and have
Danielle Lewis (13:42):
More conversations
LJ Harries (13:43):
And have more conversations. And that's what it is. And for me, when I first started, I didn't have a client for six months. I spent my time really understanding my point of difference, finding ways to promote myself, and I actually called all my competitors. I had conversations with everyone. If you're an entrepreneur, you'd be very surprised at how open people are to meeting with you. You're not really competitors in this space, which I thought was quite interesting because sales is really competitive, but the more people you speak to, the more likely people will go, I know someone who can help. So don't be shy of rinsing your network and setting up virtual coffees. Not on the purpose to sell, but on the purpose to network and understand more. And you'll find that eventually that will turn into a referral, an introduction or a sale.
Danielle Lewis (14:34):
I love that so much because it's interesting, even speaking to your competitors, you often find that you have different points of difference. So they won't be able to service everyone. You won't be able to service. Exactly. So it does, you kind of look at someone sometimes and go, oh, I better not talk to them. They kind of do what I do. But the more open you are, the more you'll find those collaboration opportunities.
LJ Harries (14:56):
Absolutely. And you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take. You never know I got one of my first paid speaking games from a competitor. Cool. Yeah. I just can't recommend that enough. And it'll also give you a lot more confidence the more conversations you have about what you do, the more you hone your messaging and the more comfortable and confident you get in that as well. So more means more. Absolutely.
Danielle Lewis (15:24):
So talk to me, you just mentioned that you spent the first six months really developing your offering, really understanding your point of difference. Talk to me about the process of going from employee to business owner. What did that feel like for you? What kind of things came up, skill gaps, what was that process like?
LJ Harries (15:45):
There wasn't a process. I just jumped. I woke up one day and I thought, you know what? I don't want to be a part of this problem anymore. I'm going to be a part of the solution. I took time off and I went traveling and then I actually moved home with my mother. She's sitting on the couch. So there were things that I did to make that sacrifice and is a sacrifice I think for anyone for themselves. I think you have to be some sort of mad, but it wouldn't change it for the world. And then I built it as I go. I learned very quickly that I didn't know enough and I pivoted so much. I'm still pivoting now. And to be really open with that and to learn as I go, the first time I paid a wage for staff, I got it wrong. I stuffed it up. I just said, it's okay.
Danielle Lewis (16:30):
Yes,
LJ Harries (16:32):
No one gives you a handbook and that's fine and don't expect to know anything. Nothing that you can really break that's that bad and just be radically open-minded with everything and understand where you naturally go. I'm very aware of my strengths and weaknesses in the business now and I play to them and I outsource the things I know that I can't do well instead of trying to be the best at everything. And I think that's really important because you have to do what you do best and then let someone take care of the rest to be truly productive and move forward.
Danielle Lewis (17:06):
Yeah, I love that. So you said you really can't break anything that badly.
LJ Harries (17:11):
Well, I haven't yet. I've tried Mark Zuckerberg actually his motto in business is move fast and break things. And it's basically a testament that it's infinitely better for you to progress than try to get things perfect. And I think in business that's really important to know because it can be crippling to try to get things perfect and just give it a crack and work it out as you go.
Danielle Lewis (17:36):
Yeah, well and that's the thing I find is that people just avoid it. So the things that they're worried about, they go, I dunno how to do that. I dunno the path to get there or whatever the excuse is. I think that they avoid it rather than taking that mindset of it doesn't matter if I just do it and I stuff it up, I can fix it. You just learn stuff it up the second time you do it or the fifth time.
LJ Harries (18:00):
Absolutely. And no one else knows what perfect looks like either. I've lost scripts, scripts have gone down the middle of keynotes and you just keep on swimming and you realize that no one knows what you think is perfect. So whatever you deliver, they're going to be they think is good. So that was a really big one for me, just to be quicker at producing things and getting things out there then trying to get things perfect.
Danielle Lewis (18:28):
Yeah, I love that. And it's so true. I love that you said people don't know what your version of perfect is because I am consistently shocked every time I walk away going, well, I screwed that up. Everyone's like, oh my god, that was the best thing I've ever seen. I
LJ Harries (18:42):
Know. You go, wow. And I think particularly as women, we don't give ourself enough credit. We're very quick to criticize ourself instead of pat ourselves on the back. So really it's taken me a long time to do that in business and it's taken friends and family to stop and go, hang on a minute. You need to just take a moment and reflect. And I think being able force that on yourself as a female founder is really important for growth and giving you the confidence to take the next step.
Danielle Lewis (19:12):
Yes, I love that so much. So what about challenges? So obviously business isn't always smooth sailing. What kind of challenges have you seen in the last couple of years and what have been the big lessons for you?
LJ Harries (19:26):
The big lessons for me have been outsourced where I can, I cannot recommend using talent. There is so much offshore talent and there are so many more people with specific skillset sets. So for me, trying to do everything was I was just bottlenecking. And then the biggest challenge I'm going through now is scaling. How do I scale me? And that's my next chapter. But not being afraid to shift and change. I've just done a rebrand and now I'm again going into almost my third positioning repositioning in two and a half years. And that's a lot, but that's a lot for a Qantas. It's not a lot for a small business. So don't worry about letting go and try to sacrifice the good for the great where you can and just be fearless. I've never doubted what I can do. I've doubted how to do things, but I think just try to find ways to have unwavering belief in what you do and the rest will come.
Danielle Lewis (20:27):
Yeah. Oh my god, that's so true. Oh my gosh. And so much to touch on as well. I love, so the freelancer contractor outsourcing model, amazing. I feel like we don't outsource things that we're bad at because we think we've got to hire a full-time employee and that's scary. I don't have enough work for them, whatever it might
LJ Harries (20:49):
Be.
Danielle Lewis (20:50):
Love the outsourcing model. I think that that can really, like you said, find people with specific
LJ Harries (20:55):
Talent. It really is bring in the experts and it's actually amazing. I'm working with a young girl from the Philippines, I'm working with a young girl from Pakistan and I love that. I just think we can support women everywhere in the world and they have skill sets that I would never even thought of and just be okay with not being in control of everything. I think if you really want to be productive and make large steps, you simply cannot do everything, particularly in a business where not only am I the salesperson, I'm the facilitator, I am the accountant, I'm the marketer, I can't be the web designer or the creative director or the learning management system operator. I can't do it all. I don't have that. So being okay with that, and for me it was really hard to learn how to stop touching everything. I'm still learning that. I'm still getting better at briefing well and stepping away and providing meaningful feedback instead of going, I'll just do it because I don't want to work 60 hours a weekend anymore. It's just not productive after a certain point.
Danielle Lewis (22:01):
Yeah, absolutely. And you're spot on. You've got to play to your strengths because that is where the other thing you talked about was scaling. And if you don't have time where you are removed from the business and all of those tasks that you're really not adding any value to, you might have that headspace to think more strategically around how you can scale.
LJ Harries (22:22):
Yeah, absolutely. And that's really important and something I still struggle with is the balance of working in the business versus on the business. Because I'm in a client delivery role. Clients take a lot of time and they pay the bills. But I learned that early on that if I don't give myself focus to work on my marketing plan or continue to build out the content or go and network, then my business stall. And that's a really hard thing to balance and that's something that I'm still learning and certainly haven't got perfect, but it's a journey. It's a journey and it's fun. I think there's that part of me that loves being scared or challenged and I think once you feel the fear and do it anyway, once you do it, you realize it's not as scary as you think and then you feel yourself accomplished something. Oh, this is great. And then what's the next, how else can I scare shit out of myself? It's fun.
Danielle Lewis (23:19):
It is. It's so good and I love it. And you said the word fearless as well before, and it's really interesting in some of the podcasts that I've been doing lately and some of the Spark community, that word worthy has come up a lot like this idea of not being worthy of success or worthy of sales, but I love that it's like you are a successful salesperson and even you are like, I am not going to lie. I've got the fear, but you've got to get out there and do it anyway and be
LJ Harries (23:49):
Open to
Danielle Lewis (23:50):
Just getting yourself out there because everyone listening is solving really valuable problems in the world and making an impact. So you've got to push through that fear.
LJ Harries (24:02):
Absolutely. And I think you talk about worthy, you flip the script, think of how there are people who are not worthy of your help and then think these people are really privileged to get to work with me, give yourself some credit more. And the thing with fear is it's false. It's just a false expectation because we don't know what's going to happen. And I think that that's really important to think that that's an emotion you're feeling and you can control that and you can tell it to shut up. And I cannot recommend getting a mentor enough if you do not have a mentoring business. Fine. One, because they help you get out of that headspace, particularly if you work alone. It's just really important to have someone talk you off that ledge sometime and push you in ways that you wouldn't be pushed. I can't recommend that enough.
Danielle Lewis (24:49):
It's so good. It's such a great point because I think never have we lived in a time where it's so possible to reach out to somebody that you might be following to join a community, to get, I guess more of a mentor. One-on-one situation going. There's so many options to be supported now as business owners, especially for those who are at home in the home office chain to the desk a little bit and don't have the interaction. I think that's such great advice. Any thoughts on where to go, how to find people, how to connect with mentors?
LJ Harries (25:24):
For me, it's always referrals and LinkedIn. If you follow and you resonate with someone, people are more, it's called psychographics. People are more likely connect with someone that shares their value than any kind of demographics. So talk to their value, read their profile, comment on something they've said and say, this really resonated with me. Can I have some of your time? And then you can ask, there's a lot of mentorship programs, but there are a lot of people who are willing to share advice and if they're not, they might recommend someone or have virtual coffees with you regardless. I think that the power of connection and networking is really broad and be smart about how you do it too. You don't demand, you offer and you learn and there's so many great people who are willing to help, I think with females too, but just go about it right way. You have to demonstrate that you care and then you got to be ready to be scared because my mentor pushes me to make and it's scary, but it does help a lot with that mentality push.
Danielle Lewis (26:30):
So good. lj, you are incredible. Let's leave the Spark community with one last piece of advice. So for those aspiring entrepreneurs who might not be ready, they might the brilliant idea or they just know they want to get out of their corporate job, what's advice for someone who might be holding themselves back from starting their business?
LJ Harries (26:52):
Start before you're ready. I cannot tell you, I still don't feel like I'm ready, but I wish I'd started 10 years ago. That's all I can say. I wish I'd started doing what I was doing and just start before you're ready. It's now or never pull off the safety straps. It is not as scary as you think, and it's a lot of fun and you can always get another job, so you really can always get another job. But I understand a lot of people can't jump there. But I made it work by moving home at 37 years of age and that was a big lifestyle. I moved from Sydney. I now live in Brisbane, which I never would've thought, but if you want it, if you want it enough, make it happen. I know that simplifies a lot of things, but
Danielle Lewis (27:38):
No, but simple is the best. Absolutely. I love it. You're incredible. Thank you so much for spending your time with
LJ Harries (27:47):
Welcome
Danielle Lewis (27:48):
Community. We really appreciate it.
LJ Harries (27:51):
Awesome. Thanks Danielle.
