#awinewith Kristy Withers
MEET Kristy, Founder of Incy Interiors.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:07):
Kristy, welcome to Spark tv. I'm so excited to have you here. Oh, so excited to share your story. Let's just get straight into it and kick things off by telling everyone who you are and what you do.
Kristy Withers (00:22):
So I'm Kristy Withers. I'm the founder of a company called Inci Interiors, which is a designer children's furniture company, and we sell predominantly beds and cots to moms with style.
Danielle Lewis (00:36):
I love that. And do you manufacture the products or import them, or how does that sort of process work?
Kristy Withers (00:45):
Both. So all the products are designed here in Australia, either by myself or my brother Tom. And we do that all in-house. And then we have factories that we've worked with for many, many years, some back to the very beginning, like 13 years ago. And so we manufacture in Southeast Asia and China and different countries have different specialties. So we do wood in Vietnam, we do all of our metal products. All the rose gold plated products are in Taiwan and mattresses and acrylic and things like that are in China.
Danielle Lewis (01:21):
Oh my God, this is so good. So 13 years. That's huge.
Kristy Withers (01:24):
It's a really long time.
Danielle Lewis (01:27):
Well cast your mind back. How did you get into this? So what was the backstory before starting your own business?
Kristy Withers (01:35):
So I was currently, well, prior to starting Inci, I was working at eBay, running their marketing and advertising team. And my son, who's literally, you can probably see him in the background there, turning with us at the moment,
(01:51):
Who's now 16, turned 16, last weekend he was going into his first big boy bed, and I couldn't find any beds that I liked in Australia at the time. And I was also traveling constantly to the US or the UK and seeing all these cool things available over there, tried to import them. I was ridiculously expensive. Tried to get things made in Australia, unfortunately that was potentially even more expensive also. So all I wanted was a brown kind of WR iron bed. And so I was trying to buy things off eBay, but they're all finished in lead paint and all sorts of stuff. So yeah, after lots and lots of talking about it and talking to anyone I knew, my husband finally said to me, just shut up about it and do it. And that's how it started.
Danielle Lewis (02:38):
They're so helpful. Sometimes they are just the kick up the bum that you need.
Kristy Withers (02:44):
Yeah, totally. I did. I don't think I would've had the guts to do it on my own.
Danielle Lewis (02:49):
Yeah, okay. Very interesting. So a huge need a lot of research trying to source it, find it without launching it yourself and just hitting that brick wall.
Kristy Withers (02:59):
Yeah. Yeah. And look, there definitely was a need. We launched and it just went gangbuster immediately. So yeah, there was definitely a need there in the market.
Danielle Lewis (03:10):
Oh my God, that's awesome. So how long did you start the business before you left your employment?
Kristy Withers (03:19):
I left my employment, so I'm a massive sucker. I decided to quit and then I just
Danielle Lewis (03:27):
Burn the bridges. Just dive straight in. I love it. Well,
Kristy Withers (03:30):
I decided to quit and then I spent four months waiting around so they could replace me. So I did kind of start some research, but nothing serious I didn't start working on, so I quit eBay in August of 2010, and then I launched NC in Feb of 20, 20 11.
Danielle Lewis (03:48):
Okay, amazing. And so you mentioned your brother Tom. Yeah. And you said, so has he been part of the manufacturing process? So what's the story there?
Kristy Withers (04:00):
Tom's been with us from the very beginning. Tom actually came up with a name. We sat around in our parents' lounge room, brainstorming names with the rest of the family. Tom actually came up with Sy and yeah, he's been here since the very beginning. He was at uni when I started the company and was not loving. It was kind of a bit of a dropout. And I employed him thinking I was doing him a favor. And then our dad was really upset with me.
Danielle Lewis (04:28):
Oh, wow.
Kristy Withers (04:30):
Getting him to leave uni. Little did he know he'd already left, but yes. Yeah, so Tom's been around from the beginning. He's done a myriad of roles in the business. So he started out doing customer service, then he ran our Chatswood store, which we had in Chatswood Chase in Sydney for over five years. He's done social media, he's done production, he's done operations. He's literally done everything in the business.
Danielle Lewis (04:55):
Oh my God, that is unreal. Interesting. As founders, don't we? It's like the common story, isn't it? It's like what role did they have? All of the roles. That's what founder does. How's it been working with a sibling? We often hear horror stories.
Kristy Withers (05:14):
Look, it's been great. Honestly, I don't think Tom and I have ever had crosswords. My sister worked in the business for nine years and we would definitely butt heads on things, but yeah, she's now doing real estate. But yeah, Tom stuck around and look, I think it really helps that Tom's so easygoing. But yeah, I think we just really both respect each other and respect what each other brings to the relationship, both personal and business. And I honestly don't think we've ever had stern words.
Danielle Lewis (05:51):
I love it. That's fantastic. That's literally what you want in a,
(05:58):
But a very good thing. I love that. So over the 13 years, so you mentioned having a store, so a physical retail space. Obviously there's the online, I assume more where it's at now, but what have you attributed that business growth? What's the life cycle been like? Because 13 years is a long time, so I think a lot of people right now they go, oh, I've just got to go all in on social media. It's the thing. But obviously spanning 13 years, 13 years ago, TikTok wasn't even around yet. So how have you seen the way you've grown the business change over that time?
Kristy Withers (06:36):
Yeah, look, I think I get asked this by people, and the one thing I would say is you've just got to, I hate the word, but pivot. You've just constantly got to be aware of what's going on in the environment, like macro and micro, and really just be aware of that. So when we launched, I was so naive when I launched, I literally launched a website and didn't understand wholesale, didn't really even know what it was or anything about it. So I launched thinking I was going to just sell directly to customers. What I'd done at eBay, well, not that I'd been selling, but I just knew there was buyers and sellers. And so I launched and the day we launched, so my background is corporate marketing, so we had a really big launch. There was definitely a need. And I was reached out by three retailers on that first week.
(07:27):
And so we really, really quickly had to pivot to wholesale. There was issues with that. So I hadn't priced the products to have wholesale margins in there and all sorts of stuff. I thought I'd given myself this great margin. But then when you have that with someone else, then it's not that great and you've still got all these other costs. And so that was the first thing from 2011 all the way through to around 2017, we were a wholesale, probably 80% wholesale, 20% retail business. 2017, there was a big shakeup in the baby market, and I think it was four of the top five baby chains went into administration. Oh,
Danielle Lewis (08:10):
Wow.
Kristy Withers (08:11):
Yeah, we went from 200 stockers, 200 stores in Australia to 70. Holy
Danielle Lewis (08:17):
Wow.
Kristy Withers (08:18):
And so that I wasn't on top of. So I was like, shit. And we lost a million dollars revenue compared to the year before. So we were like, okay, we need to really focus on retail. So luckily we had really focused on D two C, so we still kept our stores that we had. And over time there was a lot of changes in that wholesale industry. So we only in C Steel only has a few stocks left that they work with on a regular basis. It's now primarily D two C. So obviously us moving towards a bit more of a D two C model in 2017 had us really well set up for Covid because we were already ready to go. We were already operating over, so I live in Orange in regional New South Wales. Oh, cool. Yeah, rest of the team live in Sydney.
(09:09):
And at the time our social media manager had lived in Bathurst and had moved to London. So she was working at the London office. So we were already pretty well set up for Covid, but everyone, we had all sorts of issues getting stock and all the other stuff. And so then we had a, were a front runner in online, so Facebook ads were not super expensive and acquiring a customer and everything wasn't crazy back then. So post covid, that's a whole different world now and it's really expensive to hire to acquire a customer. Sometimes it's as expensive as selling a product at wholesale. So now we're kind of flipping back a little bit and balancing that out a bit more. So yes, definitely being D two C, but also looking at distributors in different regions around the world. But through that time we did, we had a physical store in Bathurst, which is just near where I live.
(10:12):
We had a small store and then we opened a bigger one, which had a warehouse and an outlet in it. And we also had a physical store in Chatswood Chase in a big kind of shopping center, like a Chadstone in Melbourne or something like that. So yeah, we've tried everything along the way and I really think that you can't, so we kind of missed the Instagram boom because we were still so stuck on Facebook. So I sound so old saying this, but I can literally remember we would post something on Facebook and we would sell out of it that day. It was phenomenal. So when, oh, take me back. Take me back to those times. Imagine. Can you imagine? Oh my God, yeah. So we were slow to get onto Instagram and then now we've been slow to get onto TikTok. And so you just really have to stay up to date with what's going on out there and be nimble and pivot and change and try new things. It's exhausting.
Danielle Lewis (11:17):
Oh my God, it is exhausting. To your point, you need to get in the beginning, I think it's really interesting Now I just heard bloody Instagram's changing again and this verified tick that we now all pay for, there's going to actually be pricing tier. So if you want your content to be seen by people, it's going to cost hundreds of dollars a month. And I'm like, this was a free social platform that in the early days you could get new followers, you could make sales, you could have high engagement, all of the magical things, but it just doesn't exist anymore. And it's so such a testament to getting in early when things change and the market change. So you're spot on. You've got to be all over that.
Kristy Withers (12:01):
Yeah, you do. You've really just got to stay up to date with what's going on, stay in touch with other business owners, just keep your finger on the pulse. I literally subscribe to so many different kind of business email lists and podcasts, and I literally am consuming that content all day long.
Danielle Lewis (12:23):
And it is bloody exhausting, isn't it? It's
Kristy Withers (12:25):
Really bloody exhausting.
Danielle Lewis (12:28):
So after all of that, in 13 years, I hear a little rumor that you have an announcement to make. I
Kristy Withers (12:36):
Do. Yeah. So look, it's kind of with happiness and sadness that I let you know that I have decided to move on from Inci. Yeah, the last 12 months have been, they've been tough, to be honest. They've been really tough. We signed a contract with a big retailer in Australia that most definitely didn't turn out how they promised it would turn out. And we invested heavily in stock and a whole heap of stuff. And that put immense pressure on me, both personally and business wise. I just made a decision that I need to focus on me and my family. And so look, I'm still, I'm lucky enough that when I mentioned this, I had the perfect person within the company who actually wanted to purchase it, which was my brother Tom who we've talked about a little already. So yeah, my brother Tom has taken over Inci. I'm helping him transition with everything that's going on and yeah, he'll be the new INCI owner and yeah.
Danielle Lewis (13:51):
Well Congrat your congratulations because 13 years in business is no mean feat. It's so hard, it is so tough, but it is also really hard to recognize when it's time to do something new. I feel like our businesses are so wrapped up in our identity as well, business owners as women and actually making that decision. Talk to me about that because that kind of been easy.
Kristy Withers (14:19):
No, that was incredibly difficult. And look, it was not something that I just kind of came to, it's as you said, the identity was a really big thing and I was really tied up in that. I went into a psychologist, I was put on Zoloft for anti-anxiety, and I've been through the whole process. If you'd have spoken to me kind of November last year, I was a mess and I couldn't focus and not making good and all sorts of stuff. And it really took a toll on me. And it takes a lot of work. It's a lot of work to just do really basic things like eat healthy and exercise, all these things we absolutely know are good for us and just focusing on me and my mental health and and the team and everything. So look, it was absolutely not an easy decision. It's one I still feel sad about, but I also feel excited too. I'm really excited to see what Tom does with it. Tom's so passionate about Sy, there's no one who loves Sy as much as Tom and I, so it feels really safe handing it over to him. And I'm excited about what the future holds for me too.
Danielle Lewis (15:45):
So what does the future hold for you?
Kristy Withers (15:48):
Yeah, look, I'm still trying to figure it out, but I've always done mentoring mainly with business women, no men weirdly, but yeah, business women. And I really just love business and I love women and I just love helping. It's something that really lights me up and I really love doing. So I'm going to continue doing that. I've got seven people who I've worked with for the last, anywhere from two years to the last kind of four months, so, so I'll continue to work with them. I've got an idea for a course which I'm hoping to launch, yes, cool. Mid next month for all product based, future business owners, entrepreneurs. So just try to take the questions I keep getting asked. So how do you manufacture, you price this? There are a lot of the questions I've received, so that's what the course will be mainly about. But yeah, just waiting to see what happens. Yeah, I'm just open to whatever really, and just excited to do something else that I'm really passionate about.
Danielle Lewis (17:03):
I love it. I just think it's so inspiring because I think if I reflect back, so I've been in business now about 12 years,
Kristy Withers (17:11):
You're similar,
Danielle Lewis (17:13):
And I look back at the early days and I just think about how inspired and passionate and no trouble staying up till midnight. I just want to get something done now. I'm like, I don't want to get out of bed.
Kristy Withers (17:29):
Totally. It. Oh my God, being a business owner is not for the faint hearted. This is, it's bloody hard work. And I think we should talk more openly about that too. This is not easy. It definitely takes a toll on you mentally and physically and all sorts of financially, sometimes good, sometimes bad. It's everything. And we are so tied up in these businesses and it is so much part of our identity that it's really hard to separate yourself from that. And that's probably the thing I struggled with the most.
Danielle Lewis (18:08):
And it's interesting too because I think in the small business and business versus startup, there's different rhetoric that goes on. So in kind of the tech startup land, there is an end game. People talk about selling or listing or the exit, but I think as us, maybe we start out as small business owners, we don't really talk about the end and what that looks like, whether it be, and don't get me wrong, some people I know want their businesses for life and some people have lifestyle businesses over scalable businesses and all of the gamuts in between. But I think there is, we should talk about what happens at the end. Do we want to sell this to somebody else? Do we want to just wind it up and move on to the next thing? Do we want to just pivot it and do something completely different because we see what we're doing right now, we're not passionate about anymore or it's not working anymore depending on the market, it is okay to pivot, to change, to exit, to move on. That is okay.
Kristy Withers (19:12):
And I don't think that's ever spoken about. And I spoke to so many people who'd sold a business, I really wanted to understand how felt afterwards and most of them kind of crash afterwards because it is so much tied to your identity and then you are not sure who you are and where you fit anymore. And then there's always those issues with who you sell to. And these were all things that I was weighing up when we were making these decisions a couple of years ago. We'd been approached by a big business to acquire us and it just didn't feel right. It didn't feel like it was, I could trust them with something that I had literally spent thousands and thousands of hours were working on. And I didn't feel like that felt like the right fit. And look financially it's definitely going to be a much better option. But yeah, look, so I think it is hard to navigate and I don't think there are enough outlets for people to talk about that stuff or anything really hard. Yes, there's definitely a change and people are starting to talk more honestly about things, but lots of those conversations are had in little groups and on the side, nothing is really out there.
Danielle Lewis (20:28):
I know. I think when I reflect on how people talk online about business, I feel like it just goes to two extremes. It's either people crying on their stories, going things are terrible, and then people who are spooking, you can be a billionaire overnight. It's just total where's just the talk in the middle. We are committed to our businesses and we want to show up. But yeah, some days are really hard and some days, yeah,
Kristy Withers (20:53):
Hundred percent
Danielle Lewis (20:54):
Some days help.
Kristy Withers (20:56):
Totally. And some you just kind of need to remind yourself. I had, I've got this really beautiful friend who I talked to after she's also got our own business and we kind of at each other's
Danielle Lewis (21:07):
Hype girls stuff
Kristy Withers (21:08):
Or whatever. And I'll often say to remember, we chose this, we chose to be business owners, and so we just have to remember that because this was our decision. And yes, there's definitely hard days. There's also some really, really amazing days and there's so many cool things that happen and opportunities and the people you meet. I have some of the most amazing friends now that I wouldn't have had if I hadn't have started inci. There's the good and the bad everything.
Danielle Lewis (21:42):
Well, and I love that you said that this is our choice and I love that as well. At any moment in time you can choose something else. So if you want to, you can go back to being an employee or you can start a new business or you can change the way that you do business. I love the idea of giving ourselves that choice, reminding ourselves that this is the path that we have chosen, so let's give it our all. But if it's time to choose something else, that is perfectly fine as well.
Kristy Withers (22:17):
Absolutely. Yeah, that's okay too. You don't have to just keep going and going and going because that's who people think you are.
Danielle Lewis (22:25):
And I love
Kristy Withers (22:26):
From to everyone pretty much.
Danielle Lewis (22:29):
Oh my God, I know that kills me. But I love you also said when you got the potential offer from the bigger retailer or bigger corporate, that it didn't feel right. And I also think that this is a good conversation in terms of sometimes our businesses right now don't feel right and we're just kind of banging our head up against a brick wall because we are so tied to it and think, well, I've always done it like this and this is what everyone knows about me. But that I think you really do have to tune into what feels good for you and what feels right for you, because you're right. Otherwise we do very much run the risk of burning out.
Kristy Withers (23:08):
Yep, a hundred percent. And look, in retrospect, I should have probably done this two years ago. This is two years ago is probably when I was starting to get really burnt out and I just needed a change and I needed something new and I was so tied up in Christie from that, I just didn't even really think about other options.
Danielle Lewis (23:33):
Yeah. Do you have any tips for if somebody is listening to this and they're like, oh crap, this is me. Do you have any tips for perhaps starting to have that conversation with yourself?
Kristy Withers (23:51):
Yeah, so this is something I used to be part of this business group. I was with it for years. It was through business chicks. And Nick, who was our facilitator, actually got me to do this when other stuff was going on. And she was like, okay, so just when you wake up in the morning, the first thing you think of is I don't have SY anymore. And so how do you feel? And so you just laying in bed and you wake up and you're like, I don't have sy. And initially it was just relief. I was like, thank God
Danielle Lewis (24:26):
All
Kristy Withers (24:26):
That stress for
Danielle Lewis (24:27):
The world is my oyster. Exactly.
Kristy Withers (24:30):
And then you sit with it. And I sat with it for probably two weeks and did that every single morning. And eventually that's when I was like, no, no, I want to fight for this. So this was a few years ago and I was like, no, no, I really want to fight for this and I probably should have done that same exercise because I think that's a really good way to just check in with your core self to see how you're actually feeling. Is this just stress right now or is it you actually ready to let it go? And I got to a point at the end of last year, I was like, I'm ready to let this go. And I was actually having discussions with the team about shutting it down because to be honest, I didn't have the energy to go through a sale process. I just physically didn't have that energy. And I'd spoken to lots of people about what that involved. And so I was just thinking, we'll just sell out and shut down. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (25:26):
Wow. And that's interesting too because there are options and I think if you're feeling like, okay, I'm done or I'm just about done. Interesting that you went to, okay, well, I don't have the energy for a sale process. Perhaps an avenue is just to let it go. But interesting that it ended up in selling to your brother,
Kristy Withers (25:50):
So totally
Danielle Lewis (25:50):
Good to know. Go through the process and asked the questions and talk to people who've been through this before because there are different alternatives.
Kristy Withers (25:59):
A hundred percent. And just be honest, I just think that just be honest with people about how you're feeling and you'll be so surprised at the reaction you get when I started saying to people, I dunno. I dunno about this. It's not feeling. And it was so interesting that all these people that you think, oh, well, they think, oh, she's a failure, or whatever it is, that's that voice in the back of your head. It's so surprising to hear it from a different perspective. And the other thing I think is just, and this is harder to do, but trying to give yourself the same advice you'll give to a friend. So if a friend was in the exact same situation, how would you be speaking to her or him? And what would you be saying to them? How would you be feeling about their decisions?
(26:51):
But yeah, look, it's a really big thing, especially something you're so tied up in and I just think talk to people. I honestly, speaking to a psychologist and getting on medication was, I should have done that 10 years ago. I have literally lived on this. I have anxiety and I have just lived with this kind of constant fear all the time. I didn't realize that you didn't live like that something was going to go wrong or that you were not going to because a total perfectionist, I want to make everyone happy, and so I don't want to let anyone down. So it was just living in this constant fear that I was going to let someone down or not achieve what I was wanting to achieve or whatever. And oh my God, it's so freeing to not have to feel like that. Who knew?
Danielle Lewis (27:44):
Oh my God, I love that.
Kristy Withers (27:45):
Please, if you feel like that, know that you don't have to, it's game changing.
Danielle Lewis (27:51):
That is incredible. And I love what you said about just being honest with people because I'm always so surprised. I also live in the camp of, I don't want anyone to know that maybe I'm not a giant massive success and I don't always jump out of bed in the morning and feel so positive about all of the things, and especially because I have that high energy in person, you kind of go, I can't break the persona of who I'm supposed to be. But man, I get shocked when I have an honest conversation with someone and they're like, oh my God, thank God you said that. I hate everything today and I want to quit. Totally. We're all going through it together.
Kristy Withers (28:34):
And I think the sooner you realize that, the easier it is, and the sooner you have people who you can talk to about that, there's so much you absolutely, every single person in business needs a business buddy. They can call and tell them the actual story about what's going on, and they know all your background, they know all of that. So they can give you an external perspective. I'm really lucky that I've had my team for that because I've just kept things really open and honest with the team. If things are good, they know they're good, if they're bad, they know they're bad. There's no hiding that. But you can only do that in a small company. I don't think it could in a big company.
Danielle Lewis (29:18):
And I do find that some people, some business owners do feel like I don't want to share the bad times with the team. And also sometimes if you are just having a bad day, you don't want to project that onto the team. Totally,
Kristy Withers (29:30):
Totally. You're
Danielle Lewis (29:31):
So right. Having that person in business or the people in business that you can go to, just to have those open, honest, real conversations like, look, today sucks. This is what's happening. Or even my employee is pissing me off today. Totally.
Kristy Withers (29:45):
Yeah. Whatever it is,
Danielle Lewis (29:46):
Whatever it is, it's so important.
Kristy Withers (29:49):
Yep, a hundred percent is, yeah, it really is. And that's a game changer. Just having that one person you can call and be like, what the fuck do I do here?
Danielle Lewis (29:59):
Yeah,
Kristy Withers (30:00):
What are we going to do here? You need that person.
Danielle Lewis (30:04):
And I mean it always fascinates me, product-based businesses, the challenges that product-based businesses face in terms of inventory, logistics, cash flow, that's next level stress. And just having those people that you can go to actually have those conversations. Is this normal? Should I be dealing with this or have I really fucked up? Or what has
Kristy Withers (30:28):
Happened? Is it just me? Have I done something wrong? Here is how do I get out of this? How do I make sure it doesn't happen again? Whatever it is. Yeah, definitely use those networks or find yourself an actual mentor you can ask that to if you don't feel comfortable talking to other business owners or whatever. But I've just really tried to the whole time, make friends with everyone in our industry. We are buddies with all the linen companies, all the PRM companies, all that kind of stuff so that you've got lots of people in your corner.
Danielle Lewis (31:02):
Yes. I love that. I love it. You are absolutely incredible. Christie. So I always love to wrap up our podcast with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on your awesome time in business, what would be a piece of advice that you might give to another woman on her journey?
Kristy Withers (31:24):
Look, I always give the same piece of advice, so I should probably change this, but
(31:29):
I do get asked all the time about people who are tossing up whether to start or not. And I think the first thing you have to do is figure out is it a hobby or is it a business? Because if you love something and you're thinking you want to turn it into a business, if you can't make it profitable, it's not a business. And then you're going to hate your thing that you're really passionate about. If it's a business, just start. Just start. Because as soon as you start, you just have to keep going. It's like even me now I am trying to write a course, so what do I do? I get some branding done, so then I have to do a website, and then just all the things just happen. You then go, okay, I have to do this next and I have to do that. But if you're just in that scared little bubble of, oh my God, I dunno what to do, just start and do one thing and then everything will just start to flow.
Danielle Lewis (32:22):
It's so good. That is the best advice. You really have to, in business, get comfortable that there's no end unless it's an exit or I sell or whatever we've just been talking about. But in terms of the day to day, there is no end. There's always the next thing. And that's kind of also the good thing because you never really have to think about what to do next because it does into flows, it happens.
Kristy Withers (32:44):
We know what the next thing to do is because the next thing on your list, it hasn't been done. Totally.
Danielle Lewis (32:50):
I love it. That is fantastic advice. Well, thank you so much for being so open and honest with the Spark community today. So grateful for you and congratulations on making the decision, and I can't actually wait to hear how it all goes and what's next and see the course and yeah, it's amazing.
Kristy Withers (33:10):
Thanks for having me.
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