#awinewith Kay Langford
MEET Kay Langford, founder of StartUp Creative.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:07):
Hey, welcome to Spark tv.
Kay Langford (00:10):
Hi. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Cheers.
Kay Langford (00:13):
Cheers. How good
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I,
Danielle Lewis (00:20):
At the same time, and then there's
Kay Langford (00:23):
A m sr, is that what it is?
Danielle Lewis (00:25):
That's right, that's right. And for anyone watching the YouTube version, they'll get the full experience. I love it. Well, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
My pleasure.
Danielle Lewis (00:37):
Let's start out by just telling everyone who you are and what you do.
Kay Langford (00:40):
Yeah. Cool. So I'm Kay and I run Startup Creative. So I've been doing it for about 10 years. So it's a podcast. I wrote a book with how to start a side hustle, online platform, business coaching events, workshops. Once upon a time it was a magazine and it aims to educate, inspire, and grow creative entrepreneurs looking to turn their passions into side hustles or businesses.
Danielle Lewis (01:06):
So cool.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
How did
Danielle Lewis (01:08):
This happen? So 10 years ago, I kind of feel like the word side hustle that gets everyone's talking about that now. Covid was kind of the moment of I've got to have other income coming in. People got really aware about it, but 10 years ago maybe not so much. How did you come up with this?
Kay Langford (01:28):
Yeah, no, 10 years ago it was very entrepreneurship and startups, but it was kind of like Silicon Valley, like Facebook, Ubers, Airbnbs, and that was the thing. My background was program, very random program development, working with kids at risk, advising government on best practice of youth services around Queensland. And I guess when I look back on it, my skillset was taking a concept. So I used to design alternative learning programs for kids at risk in alternative schools. And so it was like how do you take schooling that is very, in a traditional sense, linear and formulaic and black and white and teach it to kids who might have different learning styles. And so we would create programs where they designed football fields and went to Bunnings and things like that. And ended up designing another program that got scaled and was working in this what I thought was my dream job, advising government on how to do this on a statewide level and got pretty burnt out, realizing it wasn't really going to change much. And so around that same time was doing some personal development startups, everything, the Tim Ferriss and the Tony Robbins and the Mel Robbins.
(02:50):
Everyone was just like, yes, go after your dreams.
(02:54):
And I was so burnt out that I needed someone, I needed that shameless personal development cheerleader that was like, you can do it. And I realized I had a business coach, which I now do, which I love coaching people because that was the thing that I needed most. And I had this coach and I said she was actually a career advisor and she helped me build my career. And I was like, I want to go out on my own and take my skillset, but help creative entrepreneurs. This is going to be a thing and everyone's doing it in this very corporate startup, masculine, dominating area. What about all of the creative entrepreneurs? What about the small businesses, the family businesses, the freelancers? And I was surrounded by a lot of those people who were like, oh, I wish I could start my own business. And so I was like, you can.
(03:50):
Let's do it. And so I guess the skillset of program development, of taking an idea and translating it and making it accessible and also beautiful. I liked nice design and I hated when I downloaded, when I went for a Google search, my first business plan, I think it was like a hundred pages, black and white government document, and it made me, within two pages, I was like, I can't start a business. And it wasn't until I started speaking to the coffee shop owner and the bar that I went to and the guy who ran it and was like, how did you do it? And these stories started coming out of being like, I threw everything at it. I'd never done it before, but I know how to make good coffee and things like that where I was like, and then that gave birth to the magazine and telling these stories and realized that the common denominator was not an MBA or a fancy business plan, but someone with a dream and the drive to make it happen.
Danielle Lewis (04:53):
Oh my God, I love that so much. Where to start? Where to start. I so connect with the Tim Ferriss, Tony Robbins era. I had that same moment. I was working in the corporate job and I bought the four hour work week to read on this trip that I'd won for full work. And it was like I started reading it. I was like, what? You are telling me that you can just make up a business? This is a thing. But I've never ever been able to recapture that epiphany moment and that energy and that crazy, oh my god moment. And so for the last decade of having my business, I've been like, how can I get back to that? How can I find that? Oh my God, my life changed moment again.
Kay Langford (05:44):
I think that it was, I've had so many people be like, startup creative will not work. People literally told me that and people were like, yeah, startups don't have money and most businesses fail in the first three years. All of that bullshit that gets thrown around. But I think that that era was the first time that people were like, you don't have to conform to the nine to five. And before that it was kind of, I mean this is a bit stereotypical, but maybe the hippies or the people who are just like, no, I'm going off grid and I'm going to sell things at markets, which is now a legitimate business, the finders, keepers markets and all of those guys who full of side hustles and creatives. But yeah, it was I reckon the first five years of my business scrolling back through my Instagram and the content that I used to create was like, you can do this. Let's challenge the norm. We were brought up in a society that was based on the industrial revolution of getting in line and being trained to work in factories and just follow rules. And largely, I think because of the privilege of the world that we live in now we can start to design our futures and our careers a little bit more out of desire and passion rather than necessity.
Danielle Lewis (07:15):
You are spot on, and I noticed when I was doing some stalking in advance of this
Kay Langford (07:20):
Podcast, we love a stalk,
Danielle Lewis (07:23):
But you do have a lot of content that is aimed to inspire people to just start what does hold people back from actually starting a business or a side hustle or a freelance gig or whatever it might be.
Kay Langford (07:39):
I mean, it's fear and it still happens for me, and you're probably the same after 10 years in business, the risks get bigger or you get comfortable with what you're doing. To expand because you need a creative challenge or to do something different requires you to step outside of your comfort zone. So I really love studying the neuroscience of the brain and motivation and all of those things. And it's just the brain is wired for comfort, it is wired for familiar patterns and things that are the known and that is a survival mechanism. And so going out on your own, actually this research that I read a couple of years ago now, this whole idea of imposter syndrome, of feeling like you could never, right? And so the imposter syndrome is feeling like if you go out on your own, you'll feel like an imposter and everyone will be like, how dare you do that?
(08:40):
And tall poppy syndrome contributes to that, especially in Australia I would say. But there was a science that was kind of saying, well, what if tall poppy syndrome, I mean imposter syndrome was kind of like if you went out on your own and you felt like an imposter, then you would return to the pack because the pack was stronger and you could stay safer. You had secured food and safety and shelter and you weren't so exposed to risk and danger and of challenging and being like, well, the risk and the danger that wanted to keep us with the pack is no longer there. And so questioning most of the time it's what will people think of us? It is mostly your friends and family. I'm like, I don't care what strangers think, but what will that person that's from high school that's just started following me think that I'm doing this now?
Danielle Lewis (09:36):
Which always makes me laugh because who has time to think of anyone else? And maybe that's just the business owner and me who has no time to think of anybody else, but then I always think, so if I have no time to think of anyone else, no one else is thinking of me or paying that close of attention that I should be embarrassed or should worry about what they think.
Kay Langford (09:58):
And I think that the just start thing is I'm never going to be the person that's jump in and quit your job and do that unless that feels safe for you. There's a challenge level that's right for everyone. So the just start is start with what you can and where you're at and start small and get a win on the board and let that then build your momentum. And I think that what happens is that people go, oh, I can do that. I can register a domain name. I can start an Instagram account and not tell anyone or get a logo or order some products online and test them out or tell somebody that I'm a business coach and that can I practice on them? And once you start to get that evidence in you that you can do it, then you actually are breaking down some of those barriers that stop people from starting,
Danielle Lewis (10:58):
Which is lovely. And back to your point around a decade ago when it was the startup culture burn the bridges all in hustle, hustle, hustle to now how lovely it is that we can just take the next step, we can just put foot in front of the other and that is actually success.
Kay Langford (11:21):
And I think it's the definition of side hustle is not my favorite. Hustle is not a word that I've necessarily related to, but the publishers wanted it and it sells, but I guess it's something that the definition is something that you do on the side to your main income earner, and so I guess it does require hustle and that you have to give up some free time for it, but the idea of it is that it's not meant to be this huge big scary risk that it's meant to be something that you can test out on the side and once you prove that it's viable and that you like doing it, a lot of people miss that step go like, oh, I've got this big idea, and then they start doing it. I get this a lot with artists that I coach who are start kind of going commercial and then they're like, actually, no, that doesn't feel right. I want to go back to me driving the ship. And so yeah, people can have these big grand ideas, but when you start selling it, you might go, actually, I don't want to sell that, but I could sell this. And so you can pivot along the way.
Danielle Lewis (12:32):
Yeah, it reminds me, I remember back in the blogging era
Kay Langford (12:37):
There
Danielle Lewis (12:38):
Was this guy, he's
Kay Langford (12:38):
Coming back by the
Danielle Lewis (12:39):
Way. Oh, totally, totally. It never died.
(12:43):
Blogs were amazing. Great for SEOI always tell people keep up, but I remember this guy that used to teach starting a blog, he used to say, you need to show up and write a hundred articles because you'll very quickly know at the end of a hundred articles whether you care about the topic enough to keep showing up and writing about it. And it does make me think about that sometimes we shouldn't monetize our loves or our passions or our creative outlets or sometimes you're right, we should test the model and see if it does actually align to what we love doing. I know this in and of myself there, services work, I've been in services work for so long and I hate it. I absolutely hate it and I keep selling it and I keep going to, you've got to sell the things that you love. You got to sell the things that you want to show up for because you do just show up with so much more energy for your customers when you actually enjoy what
Kay Langford (13:46):
You do and you attract customers with more ease when you are oozing that. And I've been through multiple different phases. I know after about four years of site startup creative and hustling and doing the blog every Friday and email sequences and got started getting into meditation and I was like, my business is irrelevant. I don't care. Just kind of this spiritual awakening of paying. I love that cutting the whole thing down. Did it work? Yeah, no. Well, I was on that. Maybe this is a new, I think you need to refresh your business and make sure it's still keeping you alive and wanting to offer something completely new and then being actually what I'm good at is this, and it still wakes me up, but I often, like I do with coaching clients, sit down on a regular basis and I'm like, what is my dream business model? What do I love to do? What lights me up? And then I'll look at what's coming up and what I'm planning and making sure that it aligns because yeah, you have to do that for yourself. It's really hard to do that because otherwise you end up creating a nine to five for yourself, which is most of the reason why we got into this was to escape that.
Danielle Lewis (15:11):
It's such a good point because I feel like it's so easy to get trapped in the day to day and the endless to-do list and not actually taking that time to step back and reflect and look at what is in front of you. And it makes me think as well, after a decade in business, it doesn't even have to be that long. There are people potentially listening feeling like this only a few years in. Sometimes you don't have the energy that you had in the first couple of months. Do you have any thoughts on what someone might do as a business owner to I guess reflect and bring that energy back to their business?
Kay Langford (15:54):
I think zooming out on a regular basis is really good. I personally schedule my week where I do coaching. Tuesdays and Thursdays I'll do kind of podcast and meetings like Wednesdays, maybe Fridays and always try to keep Monday meeting free. The trauma of coming from a nine to five where you have Sunday Blues, I do the same thing. So I was like, you know what a dream come true is no meetings on Mondays and I'm never anxious on a Sunday night. I've just like, I've got the day free whatever unfolds, but that is where I brainstorm and that's where I come up with ideas and blog and create content. And so I think it should be something that you do regularly. And similarly even this conversation, it's finding people outside of you to reflect back what they like, what they don't like, what they think you are good at, whether that's a peer or a group or a meetup or a coach or whatever that is.
(16:55):
Getting that outside perspective. And I think just constantly asking that question again, another trending book when we started was start with why, which got completely, I would say butchered. But yeah, when you really come back to the essence of that, it was like, and even when I was writing my book, I did research around having purpose to what you do and there's a lot of scientific research that shows when somebody has purpose attached to their goals, then they're more likely to achieve them. So starting with why you're starting is it is a motivator, so it is really important. So keep coming back and being like, for me, why did I start? It was freedom. So if I feel like my week is stacked and I'm like, I have no control over my diary or I'm signing up for all of these things and I'm just like, don't have time for friends and family, then that's not why I started. So yeah, you can then reschedule from there.
Danielle Lewis (18:03):
I love that. It's so interesting having that business vision connected to that why I even think what I'm learning to do myself and telling people to do my unsolicited advice is also to connect tasks to that as well. So I do a lot of sales based coaching and one thing I say is most people hate sales admin. And so I'm like, don't call it sales admin or don't call it sales time. I'm like, call it freedom or holiday with the kids in December or whatever it is, wherever you've got this side hustle or business or whatever attribute that time that you may not like to that why to that bigger vision. And it just I think helps sets you up for why am I doing this task? It is actually stepping me towards the dream that I have for my life.
Kay Langford (18:56):
Yeah, there's so many hacks. Tony Robbins is very good for, that was what, it's just a human motivation hacks that you can do. But yeah, I did that. I had an online course that I was making at the end of last year and I had a Japan trip booked with my fiance and we were going to Japan to get engaged. And so I had eight weeks to finish the course and I was like, I want to be able to a
Danielle Lewis (19:26):
Deadline.
Kay Langford (19:27):
I want to be able to leave my computer at home and not log into my website or anything, so I am going to get this course up and done and then my holiday equals freedom. So I
Danielle Lewis (19:38):
Love that. And we're engaged. It all worked out.
Kay Langford (19:44):
We're engaged. Yep. We did an alternative engagement. We did a mutual agreement of being like, let's talk about what this means for us and wrote speeches, oh my God, which really fancy hotel and yeah,
Danielle Lewis (19:58):
This is awesome.
Kay Langford (20:01):
I know it is great. People love the story, but I listened to this podcast which is power of podcast where someone was, I think it was Pen Bradley or something, the guy from some famous guy, but it was like why one person proposed and then the other person's like, I have to make a decision and it's just this one-sided thing. And we were like, yeah, that makes sense. We were like, I don't know if marriage is for us. Anyway, then we were spent three months being like, what does engagement mean and how do you feel about a family and buying houses and finances? And then we're like, okay, we're aligned. Let's book a holiday. We're going to go and get engaged and we'll come back until over.
Danielle Lewis (20:45):
Oh my God, it's so cool. It's so genius. And I actually just love, I know we're getting off topic here, but I think it's good because so many times recently I'm hearing conversations and hearing about experiences people are having where they are engaged or married and they're finding things out about their partners that they've never talked about before. And it's funny, I've got one of those husbands who's 1700 times chattier than I am, and so we talk about everything, but I know in a previous relationship that was very long-term, like over a decade wouldn't have been able to tell you much. We barely talked about anything kind of real. And so it makes me realize that, yeah, I was one of those people that I could have gotten married and never had no one until Covid that they were an anti-vax, things like that. And my husband is like, you have known that? And I was like, no, it's not something we ever talked about. All of these funny things. So I think just being really intentional about communication and understanding each other is just so important and it makes life so much better. I love it.
Kay Langford (22:03):
Yeah, no, I'm such a chatter. I'm like, let's talk about everything. And so it's been really nice. It's great
Danielle Lewis (22:12):
Dream. Cool. I love it. I love it. And we can loop this back to business chat.
Kay Langford (22:17):
We always bring it back
Danielle Lewis (22:21):
Being intentional in business, but I mean we were literally talking about that, having those moments of reflection and asking yourself those questions. I think there is a nice crossover between, I think,
Kay Langford (22:36):
Not to stretch it too far, but I say crossover, saying out loud now is the crossover is being everyone is doing it like this. What is an alternative way that I can do it and what is true to me and what do I want as the customer and how can I create something? Because one of the experiences that I had was that I was going to all these startup events and they were in university boardrooms and there was full of men with suits and people just had business cards just handing them out left and center. I was like, what do you do? What can I get from you? And I would come home from those events and my partner at the time and was like, how was the event? I was like, I hated it. I'm drained. I felt really anxious. I would wear kind of businessy things to feel to try and fit in that were not a beanie and a jumper in drinking wine. And I remember my partner at the time being like, well just create, you hate that. And so I started putting on these events and the first event that I ever put on were 170 people turned up and we had it sponsored and we had food trucks and the speakers and musicians. And so it was like food trucks, musicians, beer sponsors and a panel about business. And that was groundbreaking, mind
Danielle Lewis (24:10):
Blowing,
Kay Langford (24:11):
Oh my god, this is wild. It's something I actually want to be at and would go to. There's not one business suit there and it's just creatives everywhere having a great time. Dim lighting, no neon lighting, but to bring it back is that I think that what you can do really well in business is to go that was authentic to me. What is authentic to me in my engagement and also in how I want to do business. And if you can't find it, then you can create your own version of it.
Danielle Lewis (24:48):
Yeah, look and that's why we drink wine in the podcast. Yes, I really like chatting to awesome women in business and drinking wine. I'm going to build a business around that
Kay Langford (24:58):
A hundred percent. Yeah, we did a creatives dinner last year in Sydney and I literally, I had think about 15 women in creative businesses who were like, let's catch up, we should catch up. And I was out of necessity of being like, I don't have time for all of these people, but also you should all meet. And so I just said, Hey, do you guys all want to go for dinner? And we ended up putting on this. We just all went to a restaurant and got $80 a head and everyone disconnected. And I was like, great. It was awesome.
Danielle Lewis (25:31):
It's so good, isn't it?
Kay Langford (25:33):
It's game changer.
Danielle Lewis (25:35):
Yeah. But it is interesting because I think you're right, there is sometimes a bit of a rule book on how things should be done. And look, I fell victim to that with my first business, scrunch, which is an influencer marketing platform. So it was a tech platform. So a decade ago tech, it was startup hustle, culture, build a team, raise capital, blah, blah, blah. And I did get to this stage where, and I even remember I was kind of wearing clothes similar to my corporate career and I just got to this stage where I was like, this sucks. And I was like, well, you are the boss. You are the only one that can
Kay Langford (26:17):
Change. Why am I doing this? Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (26:20):
Totally. And I think it's not until you actually step back and ask yourself and be intentional that you can actually design something that you love working in love showing up each day for, because it is hard. You do have to find something that you love,
Kay Langford (26:36):
But research shows you'll be more successful at it because you care and it's going to get hard and it's going to be shitty, and there are going to be sales admin that you don't want to do, but if you can connect it to why am I doing this and the bigger picture, then you're going to show up and push through. So yeah, I think it's really important to find the intention behind it because there are so many business ideas and if someone ever says to me, I've got this idea, but no shade. But sometimes people will be like, sign an NDA and before coaching and stuff, and I'm like, of course. But I've probably heard it before because I've coached I would say close to 2000 people over the last 10 years across the world with lots of different ideas. And also you read about them on the internet, but it's, there's no shortage of great business ideas, the shortage of people who are willing to take the risk and to stick at it and to bring it to life.
Danielle Lewis (27:49):
Would you have any advice for someone who might be going through said shitty times on how to keep going?
Kay Langford (27:59):
Yeah, I think also take a break. Sometimes you need to just stop and zoom out and be like, shit, where did this go wrong? Or what's going wrong? What am I liking? What aren't I liking? Really health, check it. Zoom out as much as you can, and if you can't physically zoom out because sometimes part of the shittiness is that you're just so blurry, then ask someone else to help you zoom out and don't be afraid to take advice. I think getting an outside perspective and getting people to see what you can't see is really, really important. I think taking care of yourself, peeling back to the bare minimum. If you just need to do what you need to do to make money and keep your business afloat, then that's okay and give yourself that grace and then figure out is it your sleep? Is it your health? Is it for me?
(28:57):
Was it the beginning of 2023 maybe? Yeah, it was just like, yeah, I was in a bit of a funk and I was like, just, I need to start exercising regularly. I need to, it was moving house, so I started going to the library to just get myself to an office, though I didn't have my at-home office in between houses and create routine and structure for myself that was grounding and safety. But yeah, don't be afraid to put it all down and then take a look at it and see what needs to be picked back up. The reason I don't do my magazine at the moment is that it used to cost me a lot of money and cause me lot of stress, but it gave me a lot of cred and it got me a lot of meetings. It was in the virgin lounges and you could have a meeting call right to anyone and say, do you want to be my magazine? And most people are like, yes, I want to see myself in print. So it got you through a lot of doors, but I realized actually I need to take a break from this, which was right before Covid and then the book, I ended up writing a book anyway, but yeah, it was a big ego thing to put it down and to actually question why I kept pushing through with this really stressful thing.
Danielle Lewis (30:19):
I love that because I think sometimes business owners are a little overachievers, so our go-to is if I just push harder, I'll come out the other side. But I feel like that is not always the case.
Kay Langford (30:36):
No, because you can't, nothing changes. If nothing changes and you can't see what you don't know, you can't see what you can't see. And so if what you're doing isn't working, then you need a fresh perspective and sometimes that fresh perspective. I remember actually it was even a few months ago, I was grinding away at work and just got into that hustle mentality that happens where you're just like, must keep going, must sit at my desk. And my partner was like, let's have a day. She has Mondays off. So we were like, let's go to the beach. And so we went and spent a day on the beach on a Monday, there was no reception, beautiful stunning day. And then came back into reception. And I had this, and this is a bit, I don't know, maybe it's a bit woowoo, but I'm going to use it as an analogy for, but I had an email from Canva saying, are you available to come in for a talk and do it and be on a panel?
(31:39):
And I was like, yes, I am. And I was just trusting that, yeah, I've got the blog and I've got the podcast and I've got a reputation and I've got all of these things. And I think for me it was this reminder, and I've reminded myself of it a few times, is sometimes stopping and completely taking your attention off your business and resetting and going to a gallery or to a beach or reading a book actually sparks new ideas and new perspectives and you start to see things differently. But when you just sit and grind at the same old thing, trying to solve the problem with the same solutions that haven't been working, that's the definition of insanity. So yeah, sometimes stopping and stepping away actually is the best thing you can do. It's very, very hard to do. But every time I do it, I'm like, oh my God, why didn't do this sooner? But
Danielle Lewis (32:40):
Yeah, I feel like I always push myself to the breaking point
Kay Langford (32:44):
And
Danielle Lewis (32:45):
Go, I'm having a mental breakdown right now. I better get in a bath with a book and sort that out. And it's just within minutes things start to shift and change. And I'm like, what is wrong with you? You know that this works, stopping works and I'm 10 years in and I still can't bloody learn the lesson.
Kay Langford (33:07):
But also it's a sign that we care and we love it.
Danielle Lewis (33:12):
I love it so much. I feel like we could talk all day, but so let's, Lee, I always love to, and look, we've doled out a lot of advice today, but reflecting on your time in business, would there be a piece of advice that maybe you got or that you've learned over the time that you would offer up to another woman in business to help her on her journey?
Kay Langford (33:38):
Yeah. Oh, there's so much. I would say advice from the last 10 years is to just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And sometimes that'll be giant leaps and sometimes that will be a centimeter of an inch forward, but they pay off. Another quote that I rinse and repeat is, A year from now, you'll wish you started today. And if you start today with something, even if it's a commitment to blogging or starting a business or financial freedom to leave your job, whatever it is, one thing every day for the next 365 days is 365 things, because I think we overestimate what we can do in a year, but we underestimate what we can do in 10 years. And so the accumulation of tiny things pays off. That consistency is you're not under, I've had it so many times where I say awaken the dream where you just put your head down, you're doing one thing, one thing, one thing, and then all of a sudden you look up and you're like, holy shit, I'm living it. It's here. So really that compounding interest of one thing, I think that definitely would be my number one piece of advice, but, and also love yourself and back yourself and do that work on yourself because there's going to be those days where you have to believe in yourself and really check yourself as well.
Danielle Lewis (35:24):
That's so beautiful. I couldn't agree with you more. I know even on the days where I'm struggling to show up, so I have this list, I don't even know what I call it, my bite-size list. It's like on the days where I can't do it, I know I just can't show up today, but I'll have things that take me literally three minutes or five minutes. So I'm like, well, if I do that and that's all it takes me is five minutes, then I've at least stepped forward today at least done something. And because you're so right, it is going viral doesn't happen. Life doesn't change in overnight. It's all of those tiny accumulations. So I think you are just,
Kay Langford (36:09):
Yeah, there's so many examples where I just leave you on one is when I started my magazine, somebody brought another magazine to me and was like, look, this magazine's out. And I was like, I should not have started this magazine. They're better than me. They've got more money than me, they've got high production. And I was like, no, I don't want to. Don't take it out of my side. And then as we were relaunching our fifth version of the magazine and nearly broke me the week before it went to launch that magazine that I thought was so much better than me, and I nearly didn't start my magazine because of it shut down. And so I was like, well, we've kind of got the space here now. And it was just that reminder of staying in the game is so much more important. And also just don't be afraid to listen to feedback as well and pivot and take it as it comes.
Danielle Lewis (37:12):
Yeah, I love that. I mean, it's so funny, I know we're wrapping up here, but it just reminded me, I remember when we were starting scrunch, I dunno what was with people, but every other influencer marketing platform or anything related to influencer marketing, they'd like, oh, have you seen this? Oh, have you seen this? I was like, why are you doing this? Why are you trying to cramp my style
Kay Langford (37:36):
Here?
Danielle Lewis (37:37):
But I really had to ignore it. I really had to be like, we will be different. We will hold for ourselves. There is space for everybody. And I think that's something I've, you often hear people say as well, like, oh, well, somebody else is already doing that. Well, they're not doing it in the way that you would and customers are infinite, money is infinite. There is room for everybody.
Kay Langford (38:07):
So
Danielle Lewis (38:08):
Yeah, I love your sense
Kay Langford (38:10):
On what you can do
Danielle Lewis (38:11):
Yourself.
Kay Langford (38:12):
Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (38:13):
Amazing. Oh my God, Kate, you are amazing. Thank
Kay Langford (38:15):
You. You're amazing. Thanks so much for chatting.
Danielle Lewis (38:19):
Anytime.
Kay Langford (38:19):
It takes a great boss woman to know one, so
Danielle Lewis (38:24):
I love it. No, I know that everyone will have walked away with many nuggets of wisdom, so thank you so much for your time.
Kay Langford (38:31):
My pleasure. Thank you for having me. I.
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