#awinewith Karyn Parkinson
MEET Karyn
Karyn is the Founder of Unstoppable eCommerce.
Find Karyn here:
Unstoppable eCommerce website or Instagram @unstoppableecomm.
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:08):
So good. Karyn, welcome to Spark tv. I'm so excited to have you here.
Karyn Parkinson (00:13):
Thank you so much. I'm super excited to be here
Danielle Lewis (00:16):
And so good because we are recorded a podcast yesterday, so we're old friends now.
Karyn Parkinson (00:23):
Yeah, we've got this.
Danielle Lewis (00:25):
I love it. I love it. So let's start out, I'd like to just start with a bit about what you do now and then a little bit of the backstory. So how did you actually get to your current business?
Karyn Parkinson (00:38):
Okay, so right now I run Unstoppable e-Commerce, which is an e-commerce marketing. It's like an agency and training school, but I like to call it not a teaching hospitals and Grey's Anatomy. You're a Grey's Anatomy fan. Like me, I'm
Danielle Lewis (00:54):
Currently binging er, so I do have some level understanding.
Karyn Parkinson (00:59):
So it's like that, it's a teaching agency, so all my clients are aware that what I learned from their accounts, I teach to my students and all my clients are actually past students. So they've been through my program. So I teach Facebook ads, but not just Facebook ads, all the other stuff that you need to have, right, to be your Facebook ads to be successful. So making sure that you know who your audience is and your numbers, you're going to be profitable, that your website's actually ready for that. Traffic, email marketing, all the good stuff. And then yes, my clients know that, hey, if this campaign works really well that I'm going to go share that with my students and go, Hey, this is working really well right now. So those that can't afford to have the budgets to actually have me run their ads can still learn from the learnings, because that's the big difference, isn't it? It's like having that budget to actually test and measure and see what's working. And if you don't have that, you don't get the same insights. So the idea is, yeah, it runs like a teaching hospital. That
Danielle Lewis (01:54):
Is so cool. I love that.
Karyn Parkinson (01:56):
So you come as teaching agency, training school, a little bit of consulting, thrown in here and there, but yeah, that's kind of what I do now. Wow. Going back how it all started. So I was 23 when I first started working for myself. Quit my job. My mom had just moved in with me. She had just divorced my dad. Best thing she ever did.
Danielle Lewis (02:22):
Good. I like a good news story.
Karyn Parkinson (02:26):
And she lent me her divorce settlement to start my first business.
Danielle Lewis (02:30):
Oh my God.
Karyn Parkinson (02:31):
Wow. Can many days.
Danielle Lewis (02:34):
So good.
Karyn Parkinson (02:34):
Yeah, I had no idea what I was doing. I went through a bit of depression, anxiety in my job, and I was just really unwell and couldn't work for somebody else. Some days I couldn't get out of bed. What were doing, what was the job? I was just in sales. Nothing Exciting working for a floor covering company.
Danielle Lewis (02:49):
Perfect.
Karyn Parkinson (02:49):
Yeah, car sales is
Danielle Lewis (02:51):
Always a good skill. Sales is always a good skill though, to
Karyn Parkinson (02:53):
Have. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely. So it got to the point where I just couldn't work, so I quit job. Unfortunately I quit. Just we didn't realize how slow it would take for the Swar settlement to come through. So I quit my job. Mom came to live with me. I had a company car, so I lost that. And so we had no car, and then we had no money somehow we always found money for wine. I don't know, we crazy. The great beans on. We too had wine.
(03:25):
I love it. So eventually the money came through and we started this discount card business, and it probably took me about a year to realize that it was a discount card for tourists because at the start, I was that person that had no target market. Who's going to buy this? Oh, this is awesome for everyone. Everyone's going to buy this. I had a $16,000 TV commercial. I had records, I had radio ad. We just had it in our head that we were going to do everything amazing from the get go and we just spent money. It was going out of fashion. Wow. We lost about a hundred grand in the first year. Wow. Yep, yep. It was a $37 card. I think I sold about five in the first year.
Danielle Lewis (04:07):
Oh no. Looking
Karyn Parkinson (04:10):
Back now, good
Danielle Lewis (04:11):
Learning experience
Karyn Parkinson (04:13):
At my university degree. She doesn't care at all. She's like, we had so much fun. I am just like, oh my God, we lost so much money. But yeah, she said, look, it's your uni degree. Eventually I was like, okay, I've got no more money to spend. I can't just keep spending it. What am I going to do? And that's where I discovered Facebook. And at the time it was like this free platform where you could post up and people would actually see it. And I started doing that. So with the discount card, I had businesses that would give discounts and then those businesses would see me on this Facebook thing. We're talking 2013 maybe by now. So a while back when it was still kind of new, especially in Australia. And they were like, oh, can you set me up one of those Facebook thingies? And I was like,
Danielle Lewis (04:58):
Cool.
Karyn Parkinson (04:59):
So I started doing it for the businesses and then with our last bit of cash, we decided we were having lunch one day and we're like, oh, this is cool conference. Mum said, it's called Social Media Marketing World.
Danielle Lewis (05:10):
Oh my god,
Karyn Parkinson (05:11):
San Diego. Such a good
Danielle Lewis (05:12):
One to go to. Yeah. He's
Karyn Parkinson (05:14):
Like, should we do it? Should we just spend all the money we've got left to go to this conference? We're like, yeah, why not? So we booked tickets to San Diego with the last of our cash and went to Social Media Marketing World and it was huge eyeopener. So 2013 was when we went to that conference. So I met, we'd been following Pat Flynn and he was there, Amy Porterfield, all these Murray Smith amazing people that I got to meet. And it was just really eyeopening. There was the person from the local police station was there, the local plumber, everyone. They all had Facebook pages and they're all doing this thing. I'm like, wow, we're so behind in Australia. No one had really caught on quite how important it was yet. But when I came back, I kind of just decided to open a social media agency,
Danielle Lewis (06:05):
Love
Karyn Parkinson (06:05):
It. And I was posting four people and setting up their Facebook pages, things like that, doing some consulting around it, running workshops. Also still had the discount card business, not because it was making any money, but it was my baby and I was so emotionally attached. It took me five years to finally close that.
Danielle Lewis (06:25):
Wow.
Karyn Parkinson (06:26):
So five years, it's hard. Years of work that was worth nothing. Didn't never made any money from it, but I was just so attached to it. But in the meantime, built up this social media business and then one day I had staff at that point, and then one day I lost three of my big clients all in one day. One had bought in somebody, they'd gotten bigger and bigger. So they brought in someone internally. Somebody else was moving. It was, no, not that we were terrible, but just coincidentally lost them all. Had to find my staff member that day. My mom worked unpaid, so she was fired
Danielle Lewis (07:06):
Then. Thanks mom. Love that. Yeah.
Karyn Parkinson (07:08):
I was working at, I had this big office in the city. I dunno why I ever decided I needed that, but I was like, you know what? I'm just going to scale everything back. And I moved back into home office. Best thing I ever did. I've never gone back to an office. I love working
Danielle Lewis (07:21):
From home. I don't think I'll ever go back either.
Karyn Parkinson (07:24):
No need for it, right?
Danielle Lewis (07:25):
No, that's it. Literally, you are then working to pay rent for someone. Exactly. It's so stupid.
Karyn Parkinson (07:32):
If you're listening to this and you're striving to have an office because it makes you look bigger or feel better or whatever, don't do it. It's such a waste of money. I do all my meetings online if I can. I hate doing face-to-face,
Danielle Lewis (07:45):
Right? I'm like, I'll go to an event and have a wine. That's my in-person. Yeah, that's it.
Karyn Parkinson (07:53):
So eventually along the line I decided to specialize in Facebook ads and the advertising side of things and kind of went to that. And then about four years ago started with a business partner originally unstoppable eCommerce. So cool. Went from Facebook ads to specializing in e-commerce, Facebook ads, and then eventually into this. So bit of a long-winded backstory there.
Danielle Lewis (08:19):
It's so relevant. It's so relevant though. Literally. I do love that because so many people are like, oh, I just don't have the right idea. I'm the first idea is never the right idea, but you have to go through the pain. I think it's a rite of passage.
Karyn Parkinson (08:35):
I was going to be a PE teacher. This Facebook wasn't even invented when I was trying to decide what I wanted to do with my life. And now here I am teaching this marketing tool that wasn't even around. So if you're not quite sure what you want to do, don't worry. You'll probably change your mind several times.
Danielle Lewis (08:50):
Yes. Oh my God, that's so true. So you were really OG Facebook. You were there in the beginning.
Karyn Parkinson (08:56):
I was there when it was easy. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (08:59):
I remember I was a blogger back then and it was so good. You could just grow. I remember one day, I don't know how many followers I had on this page, but I remember sitting down with someone and we were like, right, we're just about at 10,000 or we're going to sit here and going to go roar and get all of these followers. And it was as easy as that. It was as easy as just reaching out to people, post this, post this. And now I'm like, I've just sat down and planned content for the next year. I'm like, oh my God, this is so painful.
Karyn Parkinson (09:32):
Content is a whole nother ballgame now. A whole new beast of a thing.
Danielle Lewis (09:36):
It's just never ending. I find that's the biggest thing I think, is you've just got to have so much content out there to compete with all of the other noise that's going on.
Karyn Parkinson (09:46):
I've actually done my hair today because I'm doing a reel after this. I'm like, well, if something's on, I'm like, okay, I'll do my hair for you, Danielle, thank you. I'm so honored. I'm like, well, because my hair is done, I'm going to batch out a whole bunch of content now because it doesn't just get done every day.
Danielle Lewis (10:04):
Oh my God. There is no way I would show up every day with clean hair and makeup on to do a, I'm lucky
Karyn Parkinson (10:09):
If I wash my hair once a week.
Danielle Lewis (10:11):
Same. I'm currently full of dry shampoo. I'm waiting for a dry shampoo company to sponsor me. I'm like, I feel like I'm your biggest customer. Why not?
Karyn Parkinson (10:22):
And you can kind of get away with it online. Hey, people don't touch it or come near it so you can Exactly. Just,
Danielle Lewis (10:29):
Oh my God, I love it. So mean, obviously you mentioned the discount card business and investing so much money into that and perhaps not seeking the return, but I love the fact that you called it the university degree and carried through everyth. Totally. And it wouldn't have been just, you would've seen the social media marketing conference if you hadn't had a need to go, is the fact that you were in business looking for marketing ideas and that kind of spark it. So it just all makes sense. I'm interested, apart from my little tangent that I'm going on, super interested in the discount card business learnings. What did you, because I feel like a, people do think that they need to invest in a lot of money in businesses, and perhaps it's not always the case, but I think that there's probably some lessons in there on let's learn from someone who did actually invest the money and what happened.
Karyn Parkinson (11:31):
So I listened to a lot of the wrong people. I had a really dodgy business coach. If you're going to work with a business coach, make sure you talk to their other clients and find out how they work first. But I was listening to the person that sold the TV comes, oh yeah, you need this and you need that. I paid five grand to animate some pigs to go on my commercial. Oh, it'll do better if you do this and it'll do better if you do that. And I remember when they were building my website, I ended up getting a whole new logo designed because the first original designer had done a terrible job. And he's like, I can build your website, but your branding's awful and you're not going to sell anything. So there was so many places where I spent money unnecessarily, but just bootstrap the things that you can.
(12:21):
I had a fancy desk and chair and things like that. Now I'm been sitting on this chair for over 10 years, but I'm like, I can't get rid of it. I spent so much money on it's bright green, which was one of the branding colors. It was pink and green, the businesses. Oh, that's funny. So anything that you can start small boat strap, but make sure there's a market for it first. So actually, which is hard with the discount card, you kind of need to get the businesses to give the discounts before if anyone's going to buy it, but a bit of a chicken and egg style visit. Yeah, it really was hard. And also I put myself through marketing afterwards, but then every time I learned something in the marketing course, I was like, oh, a target market. That would've been handy. Yeah, knowing who I was talking to, that would've been amazing.
(13:08):
I also kind of changed the business model a few times. So it started off that people paid to be on the card and then the card, and then I was charging for the card because I wanted to use it as a fundraiser for things. And then I ended up making it free for businesses to try and get more businesses. So I think I was trying to double dip at the beginning where I was like, no, no, I need to make money from one side of it. But then a lot of businesses were skeptical. They were like, well, how come you're not charging for it? This can't be very good. Or where do you make your money? And I used to say, well, one day lots of people will buy the card and then I'll make the money one day.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
That's the dream. That's
Karyn Parkinson (13:48):
The dream. So just really working out and getting people around. I should have found somebody who was really good with marketing and business planning at the beginning. And I did go through the niche program, which is really great. If you're starting out and you haven't heard of that, it's like a government funded program. You can do some business stuff, but there was the sit down and go into the classroom or you could do it away. And I was like, no, no, I'm just gung ho. I've already started. I don't need to stop and plan anything. I'm just going to keep going and I'll just do this course on the side. And thinking back, they did try and get me to be more realistic with my financial projections and things like, I'm like, no, no, no, I'm going to sell so many. I was just so confident. I dunno why. So really sitting down and planning things out and kind of planning for the worst case scenario, not the best I guess, and working up from there, but really getting the support from people. Most businesses these days have been done before.
(14:52):
There's no need to reinvent the wheel. There are so many things that you can do that haven't got a big barrier to entry. I'm in e-commerce. You can just go start selling on Etsy or creating your own website on Shopify isn't that hard these days. So there are so many ways that you can start a business in a weekend if you want to. So you don't need to be spending big dollars to start up or to advertise or social media is such a fantastic tool because you can, even now that it's not as easy it used to be, you can create and find a community of people who love what you're doing without any money. You do need to invest that time. And like we were saying, content, content, content. But especially if you're making something and you can share the process and share the story behind it, there's lots of ways that you can get out there without spending on TV commercials and radio and all the things that I was doing back then.
Danielle Lewis (15:49):
But it's interesting your point around understanding your target market and that's like, but yeah, I think people do kind of go, should I be on radio? Should I be on tv? It's say, well, if you understand your target market, you'll know where they hang out. So I have
Karyn Parkinson (16:04):
Billboards for tourists. Tourists don't park in the local car park because they generally don't have a car. Oh my god, bad. I try not to think about it all. And these days, tv, so many people watch Netflix and streaming services, that social media really has become the platform of choice for advertising because so many people are consumed by their phones and on them constantly. You're more likely to get it in front of people, but like you say, which platform to use? Well, you need to know where your target market's hanging out.
Danielle Lewis (16:36):
Yeah. Oh my God, that's so true. I love that. So talk to me about, so obviously you do Facebook ads for e-commerce businesses, and we're having a little rant about target markets. So I know you are the sales and marketing queen when it comes to Facebook ads. So talk to me about that. What are people, so if I have an e-commerce brand, or I'm thinking about starting one, what should I actually be thinking about when it comes to getting the brand out there? Thinking about my sales and marketing? Are there some key things that you talk to your students about?
Karyn Parkinson (17:10):
Yeah, the main thing is that marketing essentially is the right message to the right person at the right time. It doesn't matter what you you're doing, you've got to show them when they needed to see it. So a lot of people with Facebook ads that have tried it and go, oh, it didn't work for my business, is they're putting out a real salesy kind of pitch and just showing that to everyone and they go, well, that didn't work. And I have this great example of a skincare brand that's put out. We spent, I dunno say, $500 on top of funnel ads. So that's when you're showing an ad to a cold audience who's never heard about you before and it got nothing. We then spent the same, again, retargeting those people that did go to the website or engage with ads, things like that. And then we made like $38,000 or something.
Danielle Lewis (17:58):
Whoa.
Karyn Parkinson (17:59):
It was a ridiculous return on ad spend. It was 77 times return for that retargeting ads, but nothing for the first ads. So if they'd stopped at those first ads, it would've been in that bucket of people that went, oh, Facebook ads don't work for me. But instead from a thousand bucks, they made 38,000. Holy
Danielle Lewis (18:17):
Crap.
Karyn Parkinson (18:18):
You've got to be touching at different levels. So even if you're just doing free content, you've got to have that content that's just introducing the brand. No sales pitches like, Hey, I'm Karen, I make bright colored socks. This is how I make them. I down them in front of TV on the weekends and little elves help me. Whatever your brand story is, just introduce that. And really putting the people behind the brand is so important these days because I think quite often we try and make ourselves look bigger. We have five email addresses from Sandy account. Oh yeah, I'm
Danielle Lewis (18:53):
So guilty of that
Karyn Parkinson (18:55):
Because we want to look big, but actually people want to buy from small people. They don't want to support some big corporation that's already got bucket loads of money. They want to support that lady that's feeding her kids with the money that she makes from those bright colored socks. So share that story. And then you need to have that content for people who already know your story, but now you're telling them about the product. Actually these socks are awesome because they're quick dry or you put them on and they make your feet look amazing or whatever it might be. The elves come with and help put the socks on whatever the features and benefits of your product is. And then you've got those people that are really kind of interested, but maybe they're sitting on the fence or life just got in the way and distracted them.
(19:40):
Hey, the great thing about Facebook ads is you can retarget people that have already been to your website. Maybe they even added something to cart, and then they've forgotten or they've got distracted by work or whatever it might be. And then you're just like, Hey, don't forget about these awesome bright colored socks that you can want to buy. And then they can come back. Or you can overcome an objection, which might be, Hey, right now I know you need these for Christmas. We're upgrading you for free express shipping, so you can have them right now. Any kind of objection busters that you've got. So yeah, introducing the brand, then introducing the products, and then overcoming any objections is basically three different tiers of content, whether you're doing organic content or paid ads, that's kind of the different levels that you've got to show people. And there's always going to be people that are at those different stages. And it's the same with all of your marketing, your email marketing, your website. It needs to answer questions for those people at those different stages.
Danielle Lewis (20:34):
I love that, and I love that you said don't give up if you've kind of just dabbled and then it maybe hasn't worked. I think people forget that any kind of sales and marketing, whether it's organic or paid, has to be optimized. You actually have to do something and then look at why it did or didn't work to do more of it or less
Karyn Parkinson (20:55):
Of it. And we're talking e-commerce specific funnel, and there's different kind of funnels that you run for service-based businesses. And quite often people come in and then just teach that to an e-commerce brand and it just doesn't work. They don't do the same strategies. They're like, Hey, have a free download. It's like, I really want a free download In e-commerce, having a competition to win something works a lot better because if the prize is your products, the people that are entering are wanting that. So then you're also getting people that are likely to want to buy it if they don't win, things like that. So if you've tried Facebook ads and you put it in that, nah, didn't work for me, maybe get it back out the box and give it another well with a bit more strategy behind it.
Danielle Lewis (21:37):
And I also love your point about, because you've said it before in your introduction story as well, taking the wrong advice from the wrong people, but you're so right. There are people out there that teach their way and then kind of try and fit it into all industries. Yeah,
Karyn Parkinson (21:52):
I'm sure it'll work for this as well. It's like, no,
Danielle Lewis (21:55):
Totally, totally. And then you do have to, as a business owner, find people who are experts in your industry or the field or the marketing or whatever, excuse me, that actually have results. And like you said, listen to case studies or talk to their customers and make sure they're actually the right person to be teaching you the thing first,
Karyn Parkinson (22:19):
People ask me about Google ads and I say, awesome. I've got someone that does those amazing. It's not me. I can't keep on top of Facebook ads and learn Google. That's a whole nother ballgame. Whereas there's people that offer both. I'm like, can you really be good at both? How do you keep on top of everything? My pet peeve though around asking the right people the right things when you're in a big business group,
(22:38):
And then people jump in and go, oh, this is my product. Can you help me pick a logo? Or how much would you pay for this? It's like you are asking the wrong group of women. If these group or people, if these people aren't your target market, then their advice doesn't matter. Their advice is based on their own internal things. And well, whether or not someone says, yes, I'd buy that, and whether they actually give you the money and buy, it's two totally different things. They're always asking the right group of people or the right person for advice, not just random Facebook group. And people do it to make these huge business decisions. And I just cringe every time I see it.
Danielle Lewis (23:17):
Oh my God, it is so true. I see it. I mean, a couple of the, we won't name names, won't name names. No, I'm probably in one of you're talking about, but you're so right, and it's like if you are just starting out, there's plenty of helpful people that you can go to that are your potential customers to ask. People are pretty good. I mean, yes, some people will say, no, don't want to chat. But people are actually pretty good people at the end of the day. But you've got a customer base already. They are the best people to actually be speaking to before you actually change anything in your business or build a new product or create a new course or whatever it might be.
Karyn Parkinson (23:58):
Yeah, pre-sell everything with e-commerce, it's amazing. You can build this community. And then once you've got that community of people, you can go, Hey, I am thinking about bringing out this. Which one do you like better? Or what would you like to see asking? There's polls, there's questions, there's all sorts of ways you can do it. And then also, okay, this is what I'm creating. Here's where you can go and buy it and it'll be ready then. And if people really want it, they will pay you for it. And then you can go, oh, well, only one person bought it. I'm not going to bring that out. Or, Hey, a hundred people bought this. I'm going to go and make it now. So make people put their money where their mouth iss.
Danielle Lewis (24:33):
Oh my God, that is literally the best advice. And I love you. So you talked about website builders before as well. So you can literally, if you've got an idea, you could literally spend an afternoon, throw together a landing page, start sending it out to people who you think are your ideal customer. Literally ask them to pay for the thing that you are creating and see if it works first before investing money. You get
Karyn Parkinson (24:59):
A free trial on Shopify, so it's not even going to cost you anything. And now they have a promo, it's like a dollar a month for the first three months. So you could really plug this product for four months at the grand total of $3 and see if that market's actually there before you then go into production. And I know so many people come to Unstoppable that have all this stock sitting in their garage because they jumped head first. They bought the product, then they tried to sell it and went, oh, it's not selling. So I don't want that to be you. If you're listening and they've got this great idea, just build the community. That's the first thing that target market. A lot of the time. If we've created a product ourselves, we're not selling somebody else, we've actually manufactured something, it's because we had a problem and we fixed it for ourselves. So then your network of people are probably going to have the same sort of problem. So just create that community of people and then go, okay, I made this, or I've designed this because it solves X, Y, Z. Would you like to buy it too and support me in this? So yeah, just build that community first.
Danielle Lewis (26:09):
So, so good. Because you're right, I think everyone gets caught up in the excitement of a product. I have so many ideas for products, I have to just put them on a notepad, and
Karyn Parkinson (26:23):
I like an entrepreneurial curse, isn't it? Yes. All the time I come up with things and then I sometimes forget, and then I go off on tangents and start all these other little micro businesses, and then I have to pull myself back and go, no, Karen, you've got to focus.
Danielle Lewis (26:38):
Oh my God,
Karyn Parkinson (26:39):
Except for this one. And it kept eating at me and I'm like, oh, I do it. I should do it. And it was this idea to have a digital labor where you paid off things.
Danielle Lewis (26:48):
Oh, that's smart.
Karyn Parkinson (26:51):
And then I was like, oh, I'll put that one in the two hard basket. I'm not really sure how to do it from a development point of view. And then a few years later came after pay, and I was like, I'm not sure if I can swear on this podcast, but yeah,
Danielle Lewis (27:03):
Yeah, swear up, swear storm bug up.
Karyn Parkinson (27:07):
And then another moment when they sold for a billion dollars that I had a few more choice words.
Danielle Lewis (27:12):
Oh my God. Look, and it's hard though, right? It's kind of like business is really difficult, so you kind of have to just pick one idea. I mean, I say that and I've got three business brands going on at the moment, but that's fine. But they all are work. So I don't have kids. I was thinking about this the other day. I've been chatting to a few people with businesses and kids, and I go, I don't know how you
Karyn Parkinson (27:40):
Bloody, it's a whole nother dimension, really.
Danielle Lewis (27:43):
So then I kind of go, well, maybe that's why it's okay that they have a couple of businesses. One are my kids and one of the businesses, so I don't sleep at all. But they're all so hard that it does take up all of your time. So you kind of do have to be a bit choosy. But the flip side to that is you are right. Sometimes if there is a niggling idea, you do want to get out there and test it and jump in. If you are someone dialing in that's in a corporate job and you've got this big idea, you don't have to quit your corporate job, but you kind of do have to know that it is difficult and if
Karyn Parkinson (28:19):
It's going to take some time,
Danielle Lewis (28:21):
But there's no reason why you can't test it on the side, create the landing page, see if people are keen.
Karyn Parkinson (28:25):
So many people on my students side hustle to start with, and then once they get that momentum going, my favorite email is when they go, I've quit my job and they're all in on their e-commerce business. But at the same token, the whole reason I work for myself is for that flexibility of time. So I'm never going to be that person that hustles. Yeah, okay. If something's going on, I work all the time. Sure. But I also can go, oh, you know what? My kids go swimming lesson today. I'm going to go to that. I'm going to work later. Or when she goes to school, I want to be that mom that's at every assembly, go to the sports carnivals. I don't want to miss out on that. So I think you need to kind of, because you get lost in the hustle, hustle, hustle. It's got to be huge. I've got to be bigger. My friend Emily Osmond was talking about this on her podcast the other day actually, that we all have this mentality of bigger is better, and that that's like the measurement of success is bigger. My business has got to get bigger. I've got to have more staff and do this and this and this. But when it really drills down to it, I'm a huge Denise stuff with Thomas fan. I noticed you were reading her book the other day.
Danielle Lewis (29:29):
Oh, yes. Yep.
Karyn Parkinson (29:30):
So she's got Chill and Prosper. Highly recommend it, but not sponsoring this podcast, but maybe it should
Danielle Lewis (29:37):
One day. It's my dream.
Karyn Parkinson (29:39):
And she's all about living life in your own terms, making things easier and working the times that you want and not when you don't want. Another friend of mine, Katie Griffin, she's Google Ads. She's amazing at Google Ads. Oh,
Danielle Lewis (29:52):
I'm on her email list.
Karyn Parkinson (29:54):
Yep. Yeah, emails are so well written. She's amazing. But she works three days a week. She's got three kids, or is it four now? So many kids. And she's like, on those other days, I don't work. That's my family time. She's got help for those days where she does work. And I'm like, yes. It's so good to see women that have created these businesses on their own terms, because I feel like that hustle mentality became so popular. Social media spread it as this hustle, hustle, hustle. You've got to work and grind, and the busier you were, the better it was. And you going, oh, I'm busy. Oh, awesome. I'm trying. You tell me you're busy. That sounds
Danielle Lewis (30:34):
Awful. Yeah. And you're right, because you mentioned it earlier as well about the office space. That was a definition of success. We've moved into our office and we've got all this big team, and I'm like, yeah, and look, if that's what you want to do and the type of business you want to build, cool. But I feel like people do it because they think they've got to do it. Yes. Whereas I love the Denise Duffield Thomas example too, because she's a very wealthy woman. She talks about in, so I can't remember what the second book is. Oh, get Rich. Get Rich.
Karyn Parkinson (31:09):
Lucky Bitch. Yes. My favorite book of all time.
Danielle Lewis (31:13):
So she's talking about she has multimillion dollar house, million dollars in savings, seven figure business. She doesn't have an office, she doesn't have full-time stuff. She has the
Karyn Parkinson (31:25):
Contractors here and there, contractors.
Danielle Lewis (31:27):
You can actually be a very wealthy business owner without those things. So it's not like saying, well, I have to do the hustle and I have to have the office, and I have to have the team because I have really big dreams. It's like, no, you kind of need to think about how you can achieve those huge big dreams in different ways, get creative
Karyn Parkinson (31:47):
About it. I think we've grown up with a lot of hours equals money. Time equals money. Whereas these days with online business and things like that and training one to many, there's so many ways to make money without having to work longer and without having to do more and without having to grow that team. I'll always be a boutique agency. I don't have dreams to be this big giant agency with lots of staff. The idea of managing lots of staff just gives me total anxiety. So I'm happy with
Danielle Lewis (32:17):
Not there. I'm doing
Karyn Parkinson (32:18):
That again. They're not doing it again. No, I just want to have, I'll never probably have more than 10 clients because I like being able to know them all. I chat with them all. I email them every week. I jump on a call with them every month. I know them all really well, and they're all lovely. Now, I only work with amazing clients, which is so different to my early days where I would just take on anyone because I needed the money. And now I'm just like, no, I've got boundaries now. And if
Danielle Lewis (32:49):
Someone's
Karyn Parkinson (32:50):
In the lead up, I'm like, nah, you're going to be corrupt to work with. I'm not working with you. Whereas if they're really, I'm more of a relaxed, down to earth kind of person. If they're like that and we gel on a call, I'm like, yeah, cool. Do you want to work with me? They're like, yeah, sounds good. I'm like, okay, great. I'm not that salesperson that's going to use teach amazing sales and things like that, but it's not one of my finest skills.
Danielle Lewis (33:16):
That's probably why you're amazing at it, because I'm a big believer that it's just relationships. So it's
Karyn Parkinson (33:24):
What it's all about for me
Danielle Lewis (33:24):
And just numbers. So it's like I'm the same. I'm like, I will never push anyone into it. If you want what I offer, great. If you don't, there'll be somebody else. Exactly. And like you say, business is hard. So work with people who actually give you energy, not drain your energy if you can.
Karyn Parkinson (33:44):
And you just touched on an awesome thing there, because I used to always stop myself and go, well, who am I to go and teach this? Somebody else is already doing that. Back in the day, Amy Porterfield was known for teaching Facebook, so she does webinars now. But another thing that I've loved over the years, total tangent, is live events, but small ones. I went to an event called Tropical Think Tank in 2014. I begged stilled and borrowed money and then insisted on a payment plan, even though that wasn't an option, and got it. And Chris Ducker was running it, and Pat Flynn was there, John Lee Duma, the podcast guy, Amy Porterfield. Oh gosh, I don't feel bad now for forgetting other people. But there was, I think seven speakers and 25 attendees. Wow. And it was at a five star resort in the Philippines, and we all hung out, and I was playing pool with John Lee Dumas, not really knowing who he was, entrepreneur on fire, if you want to look him up.
(34:50):
And then we were just talking, and then I'm like, holy shit, these guys are huge. So it was amazing, some of the people that I met, but the relationships that I made, not just with them, but actually with the other attendees, and that's what I loved. So I love those small events because you get to have a real bond. And I went on, a lot of my business stemmed on from that because I met this person who met this person. One of my best friends, she lives in Perth, but we met because I was friends with someone from that event who then was friends with her. And then it's just so much flow on from that. But what I was coming back to was, sorry, my tangent, I'll swear around.
Danielle Lewis (35:36):
No, no, no. All good. I just didn't want you to miss it.
Karyn Parkinson (35:41):
I looked at someone like Amy Porterfield and I went, oh, well, I can't teach Facebook ads. She's already doing that. Who's going to buy my course if she's got one? And then it took me a while to realize some people just gel with me and they want to hear it from me, and other people won't gel with me and they'll want to hear it from someone else. And that's cool, other people out there for them. But it's amazing how many times I hear someone go, oh, I'd done Facebook ads before and never really understood it, but I love the way you explain it. And then you realize, well, some people just need to hear it from me. So if you're thinking about doing something, but someone's already doing it, that's okay. They might need to learn that from you. And there's enough people in the world for everyone.
Danielle Lewis (36:22):
Yes, totally. There are enough customers on the planet. Yeah.
Karyn Parkinson (36:26):
Heaps, right?
Danielle Lewis (36:28):
It's like the whole Woolworths Coles thing. So supermarkets are always on the same block. There's always two of these giant supermarkets in the exact same area. And it's like if you thought about that from the lens of the business owner who's worried about competing with people, you'd be like, why the hell would they do that when obviously everyone will just go to one? It's like, no, people go to the one that they like, and they're both positioned in an area that has plenty of customers. It's just the same. And that's like we talk about standing out online and being different. And sometimes it is hard when you look at yourself and you're like, well, I'm kind of offering the same thing as everyone else. It's like, no, you superpower is you. Your uniqueness, your unique lens and voice that you bring to the problem you solve for people.
Karyn Parkinson (37:15):
And that's why it's so important to put yourself in your content. Because if you are only putting out, oh, Facebook this, Facebook that, and you're not going, Hey, I'm Karen. I'm the one that teaches the Facebook, then you've got no differentiation. They could go and learn that from somebody who they do connect with. So like you say, sales is all about those relationships. People get to know me. I'm a bit silly. I'm not super serious, but I just happen to be good at this Facebook ad thing and I can teach it. But the calls, I have student calls live every week, and we go on these massive tangents and talk about absolutely different stuff to what I'm supposed to be teaching. But they love that we have this super close knit group of amazing women who all support each other's businesses. It's so nice. You go on Instagram, you see one's posted, and then the others have all commented and they get behind each other, which is so nice. But it is that community that you make and those relationships that you make. And then every now and then you'll put out an offer and go, you know what? I am going to run this thing. And then they go, oh yeah, cool. I'd love to do that with you because I like you. I trust you. That whole no, and trust. And then you'll get some people in, whereas if you're hiding behind you at what you sell, then you're not going to make those relationships.
Danielle Lewis (38:26):
It's so true. I think in the world that we live in on social media where there is just so much content everywhere, people want to see your face. And I know it's not for everyone. I know showing up on camera sucks most days, but it is true. You are so right. When you are scrolling through content, if it's just quote tile, stock image, blah, blah, blah, it's when you see the human and them talking that you're like, oh, what's she saying? That looks interesting. I want to know more about that.
Karyn Parkinson (38:59):
Yeah, showing up camera is hard. I don't know if you, well, you can't see me, but half my face is paralyzed. So when I had my baby, I got Bell's Palsy, and for most people, it goes away within a few weeks to a few months, and they kept saying, it's going to go away. It's going to go anyway. Here we are nearly two years on. I've still got it. So my smile, this side doesn't work. So when I first got that, and it was much worse, it was like hanging down. My whole face was drooped. I couldn't shut my eye. I was like, I'm never showing up on camera again. No one is ever seeing me until this is gone. We had a video podcast at the time. I was like, Nope, audio only now. It took me probably three months to leave the house properly.
(39:42):
I finally started showing up in videos for my students, but I always felt the need to warn them first and tell everyone that I was going to run into what it was, because God forbid they would stare or want to know, or I'm like, obviously everyone's asking. And now it's just a practice thing. Really. I just started showing up again. I was like, well, you know what? I can either close my whole business. I never want to show up on camera again. Or I'm always telling my students, be the face behind the brand. Just be real. Just get on there. And I'm like, I can't be teaching that. And then not showing up myself. So I just eventually just started showing up again. And you know what? Nobody cared. Nobody had noticed, really. And I personally, I'm so self-conscious about it at the beginning now it's been nearly two years. I'm just like, well, you're
Danielle Lewis (40:27):
Over it now.
Karyn Parkinson (40:29):
Whatever. It's what it is. I used to meet people and tell them, and I just threw that on you then. I probably hadn't mentioned it. You might've looked at me and gone, oh, it's something weird going on with their face, but you've p polite enough not to say anything. But yeah. Now I don't even want people, I just like, this is just who it is. And so if you've got something going on, you think, I can't possibly be on camera. It's like ripping off a bandaid. The easiest way to start is kind of maybe doing stories because they disappear. So if you hate it, it's going to go away. But then it's literally just about showing up over and over. And if you go back and watch some of my first videos or first Facebook Lives, when that came out,
Danielle Lewis (41:09):
It was
Karyn Parkinson (41:09):
Shocking. Absolutely shocking. Now, confidence, you just get it from practicing something over and over. I believe so.
Danielle Lewis (41:20):
Yeah. That's so true. And it's interesting because at the end of the day, people are so, yes, people want to see you and know that there's a human behind the brand, but at the end of the day, they're kind of coming for the value you bring them. I know we both had a joke about the fact that we did our hair and what have and don't You don't, but yeah, and look, I do that are
Karyn Parkinson (41:44):
Awesome.
Danielle Lewis (41:45):
So true. Very. I know I That's controversial.
Karyn Parkinson (41:51):
I put on the mascara filter all the time. Oh my God, I love that. I'm like, I can't be bothered doing my makeup. Oh, cool. Filter,
Danielle Lewis (41:58):
Done. That's magic. But people are coming for the value for that transformation, for the education that you bring them. So you can kind of cut yourself a bit of slack. If you are showing up for your audience and talking to them about giving them a tip or giving them an insight that's actually going to make their day better. They don't care that you haven't done your hair. They will take that lesson, apply it in their life or business or whatever, whatever industry you're in. And that's the thing, they'll look at you and go, she's the one that made a difference in my life. Not She's the one that
Karyn Parkinson (42:35):
Got, yeah, they're not going to go, oh, she taught me this while wearing this, and while her hair was like this, they're not going to remember that bit.
Danielle Lewis (42:41):
Exactly. Exactly. I love it so much. Okay, so we could talk all day, but let's leave Spark Community with one last insight. Tell me, if you could give a new business owner one piece of advice, what might it be?
Karyn Parkinson (43:00):
Oh, just one. Okay. I
Danielle Lewis (43:02):
Know know, I'm like all, we could write a book here,
Karyn Parkinson (43:06):
Just one, be kind to yourself. It's going to be hard journey, but it's totally worth it. I would say that's my precursor to the advice, just so I can sneak some more in there. I would say probably find somebody who's done what you've done and either just reach out for support or reach out and say, Hey, do you know anywhere I can go to learn this? Because like you say, people are real people behind these brands, and most of the time people are more than happy to help you because once somebody is successful in business, I think they've already come to that realization that there's enough for everyone. So I've always about collaboration over competition, so just reach out and if they don't help, reach out to the next person. Somebody will.
Danielle Lewis (43:49):
Amazing. Karen, you are absolutely incredible. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and insights with the Spark community. It was a ball, had a ball.
Karyn Parkinson (43:59):
Awesome. Thank you so much. That was each of fun.
