#awinewith Claire Seeber
MEET Claire Seeber, Founder of Claire Seeber
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:05):
Claire, welcome to Spark tv.
Claire Seeber (00:07):
Thank you for having me. This is fabulous. And I feel like we were just having a giggle, weren't we? Because we were like, we better actually start recording, or we're just going to sit here and just talk to each other for the rest of the afternoon.
Danielle Lewis (00:20):
Oh my God. I know. And it's so funny, like this is my favorite part of my job. I just like jumping on and talking to cool women in business and it's so fun. When that does happen, then I'm like, oh my God, we've just talked about all this amazing stuff and we don't even record. We'll never talk about anything then.
Claire Seeber (00:36):
Very true, very true.
Danielle Lewis (00:38):
I love it. So let's start out by telling everyone who you are and what you do.
Claire Seeber (00:43):
Love that question. Look, I always like to start with who I am as the human because I feel like what I do is not who I am. So who I am as a human is. My name's Claire Seber. I really, really believe that the world needs more heart, more humor, more honest conversation, human to human. So I try to bring a lot of that into all the kind of connections that I build, the relationships that I have. Try not to take myself too seriously and I believe a belly laugh should be part of every day. Love a good glass of wine, love to travel. So I am the ultimate hype girl, ultimate cheerleader, which probably then has translated well into the work that I've ended up doing. So I have the pleasure of working with individuals and organizations all over the world doing kind of training, coaching, a lot of speaking as well on all things leadership and career advancement strategies.
(01:48):
And it, it's a great space to play because what I found really interesting is that irrespective of the industry that you're working with or the kind of business that you're working with, the product they're selling, the service they're offering, whatever it is, human beings at their core all still want to feel heard, seen, valued and understood. And so as far as the work that I do, whether I'm working with small business, an enormous global business and everything in between the way we treat human beings and work together is still the same. So that's what lights me up. That's what I do. I've just had a book come out as well, so I've just had an author to the number of Slashy titles that I've now got.
Danielle Lewis (02:31):
Is that the one behind you that I can see? Less hustle, more happy,
Claire Seeber (02:35):
Yes. Less hustle, more happy. Just hit bookstores at the end of August all across the country. So that's been a congratulations. Thank you. It's been super exciting. A bit fucking terrifying sometimes, but exciting. Oh god, I can imagine.
Danielle Lewis (02:52):
I love it so much. And I love how you started out, you are the only person after over 200 episodes that has ever told me who they are outside of their business. No way. Wild. I was just sitting here thinking, oh my God, isn't that so interesting? I feel like, and look, this is a business podcast, so I'm not whatever, but I think about that of myself as well. My identity is so wrapped up in my business and what I do. It's only lately that I kind of think about who am I outside of my business. But I also love how all of those parts of you translate into your business, which is probably why you're so passionate about your business because you've built a business around the things you value.
Claire Seeber (03:44):
And I don't know if I think I had elements of consciousness of that at the time, but now so easy in hindsight now looking back at it, it is so clear to me how I've landed where I've landed and the work that I'm doing and some of those earlier questions that I asked myself years ago. I'm really seeing the fruits of those now. But that's so interesting that I just am a really big believer in we are so much more than what we do. And I think as business owners, and don't get me wrong, I still fall into the trap all the time around being so tied to my business, but I've learned over the years as well that when we think or we forget that we're so much more than just what we do, I think challenges or roadblocks or rejections become such bigger things because we've put everything into the one basket. Whereas when we're really deliberate about all the other things that I am too, it becomes easier I think to navigate the challenges and the pain.
Danielle Lewis (04:58):
And it is really interesting. I think that separation of self and business, I really fall into this trap as well where I think I'm not allowed to be happy because I haven't hit said goal. And then it's like, well, it's six o'clock and you're having dinner with your partner and he gives zero care about the goal you have inside your business. Maybe you should just be in the moment and be happy and set that to the side and remember that you are a human being, having a human experience with somebody you love. And I haven't launched that course or hit that revenue goal or done X, Y, z really doesn't matter where you are right here, right now.
Claire Seeber (05:40):
Yes, I resonate with that so much. And that's funny because 30 minutes before I jumped on this podcast, I just finished recording an episode for my own podcast and the title was is or the topic is the to-Do list Ever really done?
Danielle Lewis (05:58):
No, I can tell you the
Claire Seeber (05:59):
Answer. No, totally no. And it was exactly what you were just saying around we put this unnecessary pressure on ourselves as business owners where it's almost like, I mean I used the example on the potty just then around rest as a reward for hitting a milestone. But I love what you are saying as well around happiness as a reward for hitting a milestone and was like, I'll only give myself permission to do that upon whatever bright shiny thing that I've achieved that I maybe haven't even asked myself. The question of why do I want that? What does that get me? What is it all for and at what cost? And then it's like we hand break ourselves for being able to be in the moment, being able to probably enjoy the reasons we got into business, EEG being with our partners and our families or things like that because of the thing we think we have to achieve before we can enjoy it. I think you are like,
Danielle Lewis (06:59):
Yeah,
Claire Seeber (07:00):
We're drinking the same.
Danielle Lewis (07:02):
I know, but it's so wild though, isn't it? I listened to a great podcast the other day and it was talking about if you met someone at a party that was like, you haven't worked hard enough today, you'd be like, who the hell is that person? I don't want to be anywhere near them, but that's like the voice in our head. So it's like why do we treat ourselves someone that we would never want to hang out with?
Claire Seeber (07:30):
A hundred percent. It's like the inner slave driver or the inner hustler
Danielle Lewis (07:34):
Is
Claire Seeber (07:35):
All of those. It's all of the self-limiting beliefs. It's the martyr, I think the kind martyr syndrome sometimes where we think we have to be all of the things all the time. But I think it's really important as business owners in particular, I mean I talk about it a lot from a career lens, but having a business is part of your career. So it's all much the same thing around why, what is it all for? What is it all for? And yet it's to make money, but I could burn myself to the ground to hit that revenue target just so I can tick the box and say, yeah, I hit whatever the target was, yet I'm miserable. I have had no time with my family. I'm unhealthy. I'm not sleeping. I've got stress ulcers, I've cool, but I ticked the goal. I hit the milestone. But it's like the at what cost part and is there maybe a reframed goal that we have to ask ourselves sometimes around what is it actually all
Danielle Lewis (08:37):
For? So is this segueing into what your book is about because less household, more happy seems to lend itself to actually asking ourselves those questions.
Claire Seeber (08:48):
I mean look, less hustle and more happy is definitely all of my, can I swear on this podcast?
Danielle Lewis (08:56):
Oh, absolutely. It's
Claire Seeber (08:57):
Called a
Danielle Lewis (08:57):
Wine with inherently hits off the rails,
Claire Seeber (09:02):
Less hustle, more Happy is definitely all of my a book built on my fuck up. So in the hope that other people can't, but I just think it's probably more to do with what you said at the very start around the fact that I've been the first person to introduce myself as the human instead of a list of job titles that we hold as business owners. And to me that's the essence of everything. Life is more, and this is a totally a business podcast and we can totally talk and we'll talk about all that stuff, but how do we make sure that as business owners, we didn't just buy ourselves a job and I've had this conversation with myself a number of times over the years. I want to make sure I didn't just buy myself a job where now I'm just earning less and working harder and I'm miserable. But I'm not going to tell people that because I run a business because Instagram. So I think it is, to me, it always will come back to who are you, what is it for? And is all of the steps you're taking in your business getting you closer towards that or further away from that. So yes, I guess less hustle, more happy, definitely touches on some of that stuff.
Danielle Lewis (10:19):
It's such an interesting question to reflect on. So what is it all for? I feel like sometimes we get stuck in our to-do list speaking of to-do lists and all of the things and the client delivery and the this and the that, and find ourselves a year down the road, five years down the road, 10 years down the road thinking, what the hell did I just do with my life? So I'm a really big believer in the stop and ask ourselves those critical questions and explore and have conversations with people. And I just think it's such a beautiful question to ask yourself, what is it all for?
Claire Seeber (11:00):
What is it all for? Here's one for you too. We get on average, if we're lucky to live to the global average age of 70, we get 25,550 days. And of those, most of us with goosebumps, most of us will work in some capacity for nearly two thirds of that time. Whether it's running our own business when it's in a career part-time jobs, casual jobs, everything in between. Don't we want to know beyond just paying my mortgage,
(11:35):
We want to know what I kind of want to get out of it. And even if that clarity is just, it's a feeder for me to spend time with my kids, it's a feeder for me to work at home and do school, pick up some drop offs, whatever it is, even that gives you the why to then withstand the how or the what or those challenging days or the rejection days where you're like, nobody's buying what I'm selling. Why? You can still keep going back to when you want to flip a table and just go back to a job reminding ourselves of what is this getting me or what is it for?
Danielle Lewis (12:16):
And it's so powerful to have that anchor, isn't it? It's actually really funny. So I'm launching a course on how to start a podcast and I don't know, it feels like the hardest fricking thing I have done in a long time. I don't know why though. I know the content. I've published hundreds of episodes, I've done courses before, but for some reason I'm really struggling to get through this course and I'm right on the home stretch. So it's the last 20% that's the toughest. And just as you're talking, I feel like that is the answer. What is it all for? Actually having that anchor to remind myself why I am actually doing the hard things. It's so important to have that once we called it why we're doing things, but I think it goes deeper than that. And to really understand, and what's coming up for me now is the delayed gratification.
(13:22):
I think about what is it all for? Is it all for in a decade's time I get to be happy, or in a decade I get to do this? I'm like, no, that's actually not what it's all for. You are so right when you said a lot of us created these businesses for these micro moments, spending time with our family or vacationing more or being able to take our kids to school or whatever that looks like for anybody who's started a business. But I think, yeah, we sometimes get so wrapped up in things that we do forget that anchor.
Claire Seeber (13:57):
Absolutely. And especially with the world we're in too around, I dunno about you, but I have felt as a business owner, constant pressure over the years to have to do all of the things, even just social media as an example, like Insta and Facebook and LinkedIn and TikTok and now I've got to learn this software and I've got to learn this software, but now people are doing this and I just mastered this, but that's not in vogue anymore. You've got to do this instead. And now I've got to have a podcast and a YouTube and I've got to build courses and I've got to do all of the things that unless you're really intentional around, it's going to probably sound like a Hallmark card, but unless you're really intentional around backing yourself, there will be a reason every single day to feel like you aren't doing. And that's the other reason why I think that the anchor is so important. It helps you manage, I think the to-do list a little bit better and well, I've only got finite amount of time, so is doing all of these things actually getting me closer to the anchor or is it just spreading myself even thinner for an impact that I don't think is actually getting me the outcomes I'm looking for? And that's been a huge thing for me over the last few years.
Danielle Lewis (15:24):
Yeah, it's really interesting. And I always go back to the Instagram example with the reels thing, and I get so many women in business who are like, I don't want to dance on reels. And I'm like, well, there are so many things that you can do. I love that. Is this task actually getting to me towards that thing? What is it all for? Why am I doing this? What is my anchor? Is dancing on reels actually going to get me there? Probably not. No one wants to see that. No one wants to see that, but it is. You are so right. There is just a sea of things that we can be filling our time with and always telling ourselves that we are not doing enough and that we haven't hit our goal because we're not doing enough.
Claire Seeber (16:11):
And then that just feeds the beast. It just feeds the slave driver beast. That's like, well, there you go. You need to be working longer hours sacrificing your flexibility, your health, whatever it is. So it's, I am so open about all this stuff because I just feel like it's been such a barrier for me, and I do not sit here either being that person that's like, I'm past it, so do what I did not past at all at all. But if I look back five years ago, 10 years ago, I can see the impact of putting better habits in place. So that for me then just gives you the fuel to kind of keep going.
Danielle Lewis (16:58):
Yeah. So what habits have you put in place? Talk me through some tactics we could steal from you.
Claire Seeber (17:04):
Yeah, I think it's going to come down to the kind of work that you do, but I think back to when I first started, so long story cut short, I started, my last big corporate job was the head of HR for a big retail company in Melbourne, big retail, e-commerce company. And then I started my side hustle doing leadership coaching on the side about 2018, 2019. My husband and I both quit our jobs, both quit our corporate jobs, we sold everything we owned in Melbourne
(17:37):
And we packed up the rest and put it in a shipping container. And then we took off for a year in 2020 to travel the world. Oh, how did that go? 20. Oh my God, that's wild. It did not go according to plan, obviously. And we, long story cut short. I mean, we got three months nearly upfront, which were great. Then things obviously turned very quickly, ended up stuck on a small sailing boat at sea rationing food for 10 weeks. But that is a whole nother episode. Oh my God, there's a whole book in that.
(18:19):
And then I ended up basically running my business and then we finally got back to Australia, couldn't get back to Perth, they wouldn't let us come back. So we brought a secondhand four wheel drive and a rooftop tent, and we just drove up the east coast indefinitely until we were allowed to basically come back. And so I kind of ran my business from the roof of our car essentially for six months. And I was at the point where I knew, I knew what I kind of wanted it to be like, but I was saying yes to all of the things, and I found myself saying yes to things that I'd made the decision that I didn't like. And yet I said yes to them because I was so scared that if I don't say yes to this, nothing else will
(19:13):
Come. And
(19:14):
So I think that was one of my first habits to get into was around understanding for yourself what good work looks like for you.
(19:24):
But then probably the bigger trap that I fell into that I've now kind of built better boundaries around was I also was saying yes to every client all over the world against their own agenda and their needs. And so what I mean by that as an example was I was doing one-on-one coaching at that time. I would have a client in Canada who would book into my diary at two o'clock in the morning and I'd be really angry. I'd be so internally ragey about it and be like, this is so unfair, la la, la, it shouldn't be this way. And then as if I couldn't change it, I love that about us. The first 12 months I'd get up at two o'clock and until a coaching call because someone booked it into my diary because it was showing as an available option. So of course for them, they're like, great, this works in my diary.
(20:25):
I'm just going to book it in. And then I'm angry about that. And I really slowly became resentful and annoyed by how accessible people expected me to be when in reality not expected it at all. And in fact, whenever I got on these calls or ran workshops and they'd be like, oh, it's really dark where you are. What time is it? I'm like, oh, it's 2:00 AM. And they're like, what? And I'm like, oh, it's fine. It was not fine, but I allowed it to be fine. And so I look back at that now when I think about some of the practices that I now have, it is being explicit around when you're on and when you're not, when you are accessible and when you're not. And so that sounds so obvious. I know. But in the earliest stages of building my business, I didn't even have anyone anywhere, could basically book into my diary 24 hours a day, Monday to Friday.
(21:24):
Whereas now clients, I'm only accessible for client facing work on certain days and at certain times. And then I've got a day that is for purely working on the business, and then I've got Fridays, I don't even want to touch anything. Do I do it a hundred percent of the time? No, but I do it 80% of the time, which is so much better than being open and accessible to all of my client base anytime. And that for as obvious as that now sounds, I cannot believe it took me 18 months to get to that point.
Danielle Lewis (22:04):
It's just hilarious. I did exactly the same thing. And you're so right. You do work yourself up and get resentful, and then I'm like, oh, I'm the one in charge here. It's crazy what you think you have to do, how you go through that resentful thing, and then you kind of have this brainwave of, oh, it's actually my business, it's actually my life. I am allowed to design it the way that works for me.
Claire Seeber (22:34):
Absolutely. And it's that piece too around there might be people listening that are like, yeah, but what if I do push back or I have a boundary or I don't say yes to the work and then nothing else comes. I remember, I totally remember dealing with that as well.
(22:50):
And
(22:51):
I just think that it isn't an all or nothing game. So I don't get me wrong, there are still times when I will work outside of a boundary or I'll fit something in that I wouldn't have previously. But I think that it is about us again, it's like going back to those questions around, is this getting me closer to why I got into this game to start with and try to make our decisions based on that? And all of the times where I said yes to pro, if I really look back now, all of the projects that I said yes to and had that in a dialogue around, well, if you don't say yes to this, nothing else will come. Even though the other voice was like, I really don't want to do this, but I did it anyway. I wished I didn't
Danielle Lewis (23:43):
Wish I didn't. Oh, your gut knows, right? You always know.
Claire Seeber (23:46):
Yeah, absolutely. There's none of those experiences I look back at and I'm like, oh, that actually worked out really well.
Danielle Lewis (23:55):
No,
Claire Seeber (23:55):
It didn't. I should have said no.
Danielle Lewis (23:59):
Oh my God, it's really interesting. So I've been wanting to ask you about leadership because obviously your business is built around leadership and something that's falling into place for me right now is it's almost our ability to lead ourselves first. So do talk to me about that. So you specialize obviously in leadership, and you mentioned that you do coaching for individuals, for organizations. Talk me through what that looks like.
Claire Seeber (24:27):
Yeah, and I love what you're saying around leading yourself first. Because even anything that I do, whether it's working like workshops inside organizations or it's working with individuals, they'll often come to me with, I'm feeling stuck or I'm feeling unfulfilled, or this person's doing this wrong and it's making my life difficult. Or my team, my team aren't doing what I'm asking them. Or they keep coming to me with questions all the time and they want me to give them the solution to those things. And then when I'll often ask them, well, how do you think you are showing up right now in this situation or in this environment? And what impact do you think that might be having? I'll often get a face that's like, what? It's not about me, it's about them. I love that I didn't come here to talk about my leadership. I came, I'm obviously perfect. And the reality is we cannot actually lead other people. We cannot lead businesses effectively if we can't lead ourselves.
(25:36):
And in order to lead ourselves, again, we have to know ourselves. We have to know the strengths that we have. We also have to know the weaknesses that we have. We need to know what happens to you when you're under pressure, when you're under stress, what happens to you? I could have two people in the same workshop and I'll point to, I dunno, a tree outside and I'll say, describe that to me. And they'll see two totally different things or they'll add meaning. They have a different meaning for what that is. We're all looking at the same stuff. And so if you don't know your inner world and what's going on there and the impact that it has, it's really hard then to lead other people effectively and have better conversations. For example, I'll often get leaders come to me around feedback conversations and they're like, oh, can you teach my team a workshop around how to have feedback conversations?
(26:41):
No problem. Love that. But I'll always start the workshop with understanding a little bit about yourself first. Because for example, if you know that you've got to have a difficult conversation with somebody, so let's say it's a supplier or somebody, I dunno, the service that they're giving you is a bit average. They haven't been following through on deadlines, whatever it might be. I can give you a framework. I can give you a lovely little acronym on a poster with the steps to have the conversation. But if deep within you, there's a part of you that views conflict as being really, really bad or conflict as a failure, or there's a part of you that doesn't believe you are, I don't know, worthy of having those assertive conversations, the framework doesn't mean shit. And so that's kind of why when we talk about leadership, I think leading yourself to lead a business, to lead a team effectively, so important.
Danielle Lewis (27:44):
Oh my God. So are you telling me the reason I can't have difficult conversations is because my mom told me it was bad and we shouldn't fight and we shouldn't talk about we should bury it deep inside.
Claire Seeber (27:55):
We sound like the same person.
Danielle Lewis (27:59):
Oh my God, do. I've literally just gotten myself into a pickle because I was a bit too polite. Someone was selling me something and I was like, oh my God, I don't want this, but I don't want to be rude. So I was like, oh, okay, just send it to me. And now gone. I've gotten, I've dug myself a hole and it's actually turned into a bit of a conflict. I don't want this thing, and I just couldn't have a hard conversation with you. Oh my God, it's wild.
Claire Seeber (28:27):
It's like I am that person who will order something in a restaurant. The wrong meal will come out to me and the person I'm with will be like, you didn't order that. And I'll be like, it's fine. It's fine. Because I'm like, I don't want to upset them. Yeah,
(28:42):
Totally. It's their job.
(28:47):
I ordered chicken and you gave me a steak or whatever. And then I'm like, no, it's fine. Not a problem. So it's, I think we have to know ourselves in order to know how do we, exactly what we're saying, how can I have the conversations that I need to have to coach my team or to coach my, if you've got a VA as an example, it's probably a lot of people listening that have got VAs or support teams and they feel frustrated sometimes where they're like, and I've done this before too, where I'm like, oh, why are they not doing what I'm asking when the reality probably is that I have not communicated it to them effectively.
(29:26):
I've
(29:27):
Just assumed that they can read my mind. And I've got too many things on the go at the moment that I'm doing a hundred things to the 10th of the level that I need. I've got to have the discipline to check in with myself to know that if I want to actually improve my ability to get outcomes from the people that I'm paying,
Danielle Lewis (29:52):
I love this so much because I just made all of these mistakes rather than having someone like you that could teach me the ways I just made mistakes for a decade and Oh, that's obviously not working because they quit or that's not working because they're not doing their job. But this is so good. I just feel like for any small business owner, whether when you're in that stage where you're like, okay, yeah, I need a va, or I'm hiring my first full-time employee, I just feel like we do need to be leaders. We are stepping into a new role, and that is super scary, but I think is going to have a huge impact on the success of our business.
Claire Seeber (30:34):
A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And it'll be, I think I fall trapped to this too. It'll be that thing where we're like, but I don't have time for that. But then the lessons that I've learned, much like the hard way is like, well, I sure as hell don't have time to continue fixing their mistakes and cleaning up their mess that I essentially contribute to the creation of in the first place. So it is sometimes that short-term sacrifice for medium long-term gain.
Danielle Lewis (31:04):
Yeah, that lesson of that, I don't have time. That statement is always a recipe for disaster. Actually taking time to document processes, train someone effectively, hire better. All of those have better conversations, have hard conversations earlier. All of the things that we put into this feels uncomfortable. So I'm going to say I don't have enough time to do them. Always the answer. Actually investing that time when you perceived yourself you don't have it, is always going to make things better. Absolutely.
Claire Seeber (31:43):
Absolutely. So inconvenient though, but
Danielle Lewis (31:46):
Absolutely. Totally and uncomfortable and inconvenient. And I would rather be drinking a wine. Lemme tell you, you can write great processed documents over a glass of wine. That's my trick. If you've got a boring job to do, do it with a glass of wine in your hand. I
Claire Seeber (32:02):
Feel that. I feel that. I also find sometimes when I sit with a glass of wine, if I know I've got to do some stuff at night and I'm like, okay, I'll sit with a glass of wine. I am white creative so that I find you get a little second wind sometimes when I need to write socials or newsletters or whatever it might be. And I'm like, this is bring some good stuff out. I mean, I get a little sassy.
Danielle Lewis (32:26):
I a little sassy on my socials when I've got, you can always tell which ones I had a wine in my head. Love it. Oh my God, it's so good. I love it. I feel like we could talk all day, however, it would be prudent to wrap up. So tell me, reflecting on your time in business, what would be one piece of advice that you would give to another woman in business on her journey?
Claire Seeber (32:55):
The first one that I'm just going to go with, the first one that comes into my head, which is a piece of advice I got given about 10 years ago by a mentor, and it burned at the time, but it's the piece that stuck with me the most. And that is, if you keep giving, people will keep taking and that is your fault, not theirs. And when that got said to me 10 years or so ago, I was rude. But it was true, and it's relevant to everything from what we charge to when we make ourselves available to the terms and conditions that we accept or put out into the world. All of it, if you keep giving, people will keep taking, and that is your fault, not theirs. So define what yours are.
Danielle Lewis (33:47):
Oh my God, that is huge. It's so funny. It's a lesson that I keep learning. I keep getting myself into those situations. I'm like, why did I say I would do that? That's not what is part of this offering. Why did I say, yeah, I'll just do that for you. I'm like, oh my God, but you are so spot on. It is our fault. And I feel like that's been the theme for this podcast. It's all our fault. We have the, but in a good way, we do have the power to design our business, to set our boundaries, to set expectations, to not give away the farm, to price correctly, to lead, to have conversations. I think it's been a beautiful conversation. You are absolutely incredible, Claire.
Claire Seeber (34:35):
Oh, thank you very much. And I think it's empowering to know that you can change your business, your life at any time. And it's not, there's a whole nother podcast episode around just why women, the societal piece around women with boundaries and nice and stuff. So there's no part of me that doesn't sit here and acknowledge that. But I also think that it's exciting to know that at any moment of any day, you get to choose how you want to show up.
Danielle Lewis (35:08):
I love it. I could not agree with you more. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your wisdom with the Spark community. That was brilliant.
Claire Seeber (35:17):
Thanks for having me.
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