#awinewith Tiffany Guan & Mikhara Ramsing, Co-founders OD-AI
MEET Tiffany & Mikhara, co-founders of OD-AI
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:07):
Well, I'm so excited. We've got two people on the show today, co-founders, Tiffany and Mikara. Thank you so much for joining us at Spark tv. I'm so excited to have you.
Mikhara Ramsing (00:18):
Oh, thank you, Danielle. It's awesome to be here and even better with my co-founder, so shout out to Tif for both being able to do it
Tiffany Guan (00:26):
So much. Yep. Feels good to be here.
Danielle Lewis (00:28):
So, cool. Well, let's start out by telling everybody who you are and what you do. So Macra, maybe we'll start with you.
Mikhara Ramsing (00:38):
Fantastic, Danielle. Yeah, I don't want to follow Tiff, so happy to go first and very fortunate to be working with someone like Tiff. But in essence, my background has always been an entrepreneurship. I grew up in South Africa and my grandfather was a huge influence for me, probably my earliest role model. And I saw how he used business, particularly in an apartheid South Africa as a tool for social impact and particularly what he did with the profits. And it was really upon his funeral, unfortunately 10 years ago, that I really could see that impact. And I was a teenager at the time and was just in awe of the thousands of people who actually came to the funeral. And I know my Indian family is big, I didn't think it was that big. And just hearing about all the scholarships he provided with his business profits and the people he could put through university and break poverty cycles through education.
(01:30):
And I think at that point it's cemented to me as a 17-year-old that that's what I want to do with my life. I would also like to use business as this tool for social impact. So I was very fortunate to pursue a career in that. And since leaving university and I'm up to my seventh business now that I'm building with TIF and we're really focused on structural change. And in the past I've worked a lot on L-G-B-T-I inclusion, gender equality, mental health, suicide prevention, suicide being the biggest killer of young people in Australia. And I'm so fortunate to have sat with so many incredible people and worked across this country and the globe and excited to keep making the world a better place. That's what really gives me energy.
Danielle Lewis (02:08):
So cool. I love it so much. Tiffany, what about you?
Tiffany Guan (02:12):
Always love hearing AKA's story, so Yep. Obviously happy to hear next. So probably always, I've always considered myself a bit of a problem solver at heart. There's nothing more satisfying than being close to a user or anyone. And it's like I am actually able to help you get on with your day better your life in some way. And for me, going into tech, I'm a software engineer, that's my background. Actually. Getting the tools to be able to code and use that for good seemed like the best way to sort of scale that sort of impact. And so it was almost natural for me to fall into startups. I tried the big business route, I did my internship at IBM, great tech company, global tech company, but I thought, oh, this doesn't, the excitement that I can get from being close to a person and that sort of theme of problem solving.
(03:05):
And from there jumped straight into AI and a venture studio in Brisbane. And that journey in 2019 took me from being a research engineer on a bunch of different generative AI projects. And this is 2019, so before it was cool. And then they backed me as a founder, creator, own sort of defect detection company. And since then have focused more in the HR tech space and building out those sort of products and honing my skill set across the board and very fortunate and grateful to be working with MACRA and our other co-founder Kim on, yes, we're focused on hr, but how do we actually protect people, make it feel safe, but also welcome at work. So that's sort of the problem space that we're focused on now.
Danielle Lewis (03:49):
I think that is incredible and I absolutely love that both of you are like, how can we leverage our skillset and business for good and to create impact in the world? And macari, I love how you said that you have this connection with how profits can be a good thing because they can actually help to drive change and help people break their own poverty cycle and what have you. So cool that both of you found each other.
Mikhara Ramsing (04:16):
Oh, definitely feel very lucky. And it was through a LinkedIn post, Danny, it was just,
Danielle Lewis (04:21):
Oh really?
Mikhara Ramsing (04:23):
In my wider network and she finally agreed to jump on a call after being like, you're amazing. Can we chat? And then here we're six months later and I'm just like, what have I got myself into?
Danielle Lewis (04:35):
That's so cool though. It's really interesting. A lot of people ask where do you go to find a co-founder? And I think we try and overcomplicate things sometimes, but as simple as look at the great work that other people are doing out there and people are sharing what they're up to on platforms like LinkedIn or networking events. And so sometimes it is just a matter of connecting with amazing people.
Mikhara Ramsing (05:00):
Definitely. And that's what the Spark community does, so how cool.
Danielle Lewis (05:06):
Oh, that is incredible. So tell me then, what does the business specifically do?
Mikhara Ramsing (05:12):
Yes, and as Ted mentioned, we are lucky to have another very value aligned co-founder Cam who's a Churchill fellow in domestic and family violence prevention and also in front-end user experience design. And it really was a culmination of the three of us getting together and looking at our skill sets and thinking where can we leverage our skill sets to make the most impact? And we were really focused on, we'd come from sort of grassroots activism. We were working on ground with communities as a woman in tech myself in the L-G-B-T-I sector CAN and domestic and family violence. And there's a lot of good work that goes into empowering individuals, but we were very conscious of this mantra of let's not try to fix women or fix people of color or let's try and change systems. So we were really set then on a tech tool, something that businesses would use and integrate in their systems.
(06:03):
And in essence what it is, it's a people management tool, it's a culture management tool. It provides access to knowledge frameworks that incredible people at the frontline develop domestic violence prevention experts like LGB tankers and gender equity. It sort of cuts out the middleman of consulting, which sells knowledge at a premium and it gives all businesses, particularly the 66% of Australians employed by small and medium businesses access to this framework so they can implement them in their workplaces and create best practice environments. We just feel like there's this huge opportunity to innovate with leveraging tools like AI to make best workplaces accessible for everyone so you can truly bring your whole self to work. We think leaders, bosses, owners, they want to do good. They just dunno how or they think it's too expensive. So that's what we're really wanting to solve for. But Tiff, please feel free to add to that.
Tiffany Guan (06:56):
No, you always do such a great job. That's pretty much it. And so I think especially in Australia, there's a lot of focus on culture at work and how do we enable cultural change, even startup space, well, is CultureAmp even a startup anymore? So there's a huge focus on it necessarily. This is where we spend most of our lives really. And so when it comes to cultural change, I guess the product we're trying to build is how do we enable that through the lens of policy and compliance? So not only of course is there goodwill to make work a better environment, but now legislation's come down to help respect, it's literally respected work, respected work, but also policies protect, enable domestic and family violence sufferers, how do we actually make them feel safe in this environment? So that's how we're segmenting it as well.
Mikhara Ramsing (07:52):
And I think the key moment for us is there's this fallacy that we think you separate your personal and your private life and oh DFV, it's not a workplace issue. Oh, mental health, not a workplace issue. But if the last decades have taught us anything, and particularly the law is catching up to this, and if the law is saying something which is such a slow moving beast, then a society, we should move faster. And if it is legislating respected work, a positive duty to create respectful environments, discrimination not occurring on the basis of sex or sexual gender identity, then we just felt like where's the tool to help people do this? We were being told we have to do this. And it actually is a workplace health and safety issue. We know you can't leave your mental health the door when you walk into work.
(08:35):
That's actually part psychosocial factors of how you perform and it's really what we're targeting for business. On the other end, long-term outcomes is this is addressing the trillion dollar employee retention problem because we found in serving respondents and on global studies of people who leave two thirds would be willing to stay for lower money if they just had a good work environment. And we know it's not the money at the end of the day, it's the people you work with. So imagine if your workplace was equipped to support you in all your facets of life. And that's what we really want to make accessible.
Danielle Lewis (09:07):
I think that's so cool because as a small business owner, I think employee retention is really difficult and I think we are very quick to say, oh well it's just they're going after more salary, so of course they're going to go and find another job. But I think you're right, it is our responsibility to create amazing workplaces on all levels, both from the work that people perform that it's aligned to their values and skillset. But you're right, these external issues that are not external issues at all that are actually
Mikhara Ramsing (09:39):
Mel across
Danielle Lewis (09:41):
Home and the workplace. But again, I love what you said earlier around as small business owners, sometimes we dunno what to do.
Mikhara Ramsing (09:49):
No. And honestly you're just trying to get money through the door and I think right, you're a small business, you just need to keep the lights on, so why not leave it to someone like us where we can do all that for you in a really affordable way. We're not tens of thousands of dollars like consultants and we think everyone should have access to this and we're exploring options to how do we make this so accessible? And I think that comes back to impact is what really drives us and it's win win-win. When you take care of your people, they take care of your business. Any business owner knows that.
Danielle Lewis (10:19):
That's so true. I love it so much. So how did you meet your third co-founder? Was that also LinkedIn or so much?
Mikhara Ramsing (10:28):
Are
Tiffany Guan (10:29):
You taking one
Mikhara Ramsing (10:29):
Next? Yeah, no, so fortunately I was inspired to get to know Cam. We've been friends through the social enterprise community. We're actually all Brisbane locals and now sort of branched around, but Brisbane is where it's at for our social entrepreneurs. So Cam and I knew each other through mutual friends in the sector and I've just always been inspired by his work and sort of the networks in that area and making impact on these global scales. And so he had capacity to do something. I said, right Cam, let's get chatting. And then we found Tiff and it's really just taken off.
Danielle Lewis (11:05):
Oh, that's so cool. And so tell me then as three co-founders starting a business, growing a business, what's it like working together? And now that you've got some remote team, how do you manage actually communicating, delegating tasks, connecting? How does that work as three co-founders?
Mikhara Ramsing (11:27):
Tiff, maybe you start because I think Tiff actually guided a lot of this and right from the get go when we were starting to work together, TIFF shared a brilliant questionnaire that pushed us to think about things as co-founders of a startup. But Tiff, I'll leave the story to you. I'm inspired by the way you've guided us,
Tiffany Guan (11:42):
Guided us. Oh sure. Thank you. Yes, I forgot about that. So I think to answer the question surprisingly well, I think we work well together. I don't know why surprising is the response there, but because we are mainly remote first and mix, you are usually around Canberra, cam does a lot of traveling for work. So one of the tenets of good co-founder communication is, I mean that's it. Being willing to and able to be vulnerable about can I deliver this or what's going on, but really have those conversations that'll drive moving the business forward. So I think having that is so evident in how the current cam and how we work together. We're not afraid to say really anything that comes to mind or shoot down ideas sort of lovingly. It's like, okay, well we're reminding ourself why are we doing this? What's this for? And it's really the constructive communication. And to that resource macari that you mentioned earlier, first round review, I think they're a great venture capitalist fund in the us but they do amazing content articles and that co-founder questionnaire, it's almost like a dating questionnaire resource and it's like 50 questions long of Yeah,
Mikhara Ramsing (12:54):
It was like a dating questionnaire, wasn't it
Tiffany Guan (12:56):
Really? Yeah. And it's really how do you work best? All these, I don't know, all these deep dives into almost who you are as a person and examining the relationship and I'd come across this resource a couple of years back. But yeah, instrumental, I think it's setting that tone of conversation, how we can work together.
Mikhara Ramsing (13:14):
Yeah, I think particularly Cam and I were conscious, we had a friendship of many years and we wanted us to all feel very equal and we're very conscious of feeling that. So it was great to have an asset or a survey that we started off on. It was questions like, what is your personal exit plan? At what point it took me a good day to complete. And I think the other article that Tiff shared that really helped me, particularly in a startup where you're wearing multiple hats and before Tiff came on board, I was sort of doing a bit of the coding in a very janky way. Tiff is very much the software engineer, but another article she shared was talking about how to give back your Lego blocks and realizing that our Lego blocks are changing every day and whilst we might feel like we're giving them up, we're actually just getting new Legos to play with. And that kind of reframing really helped me when I thought about my role in this company because it was so defined for just one month I was doing developing and Cam was doing the front end and now we've actually got a developer, so what am I doing now? Okay, what new Lego blocks can I pick up? And that sort of thinking has personally really helped me as someone who always feels like they need to be doing. So I also really appreciated that too.
Danielle Lewis (14:21):
That's so cool. And it's so true, isn't it? I think there's two really important streams there. The first one is to really be open and honest about who you are and what your plan is in business. I think getting on the same page, because I think we all do have our own stories, our own journeys, our own vision for the future. And if you know where each other is at, you can kind of accommodate each other a little bit more accordingly. But yeah, I love what you just said as well about the what's my role? Because I know. So in my other business scrunch, I did have a co-founder at one stage and had a pseudo third, and it was really difficult. We stepped on each other's toes so much in the beginning it was crazy. And so it wasn't until we actually did sit down and go, okay, this is what I do, this is what you do. And we just have to trust each other and trust that our skills are our skills and the reason we've come together is because we respect those skills. Oh my God, that was life changing. Going through that
Mikhara Ramsing (15:26):
Process, trust and respect, that really stands out to me.
Danielle Lewis (15:31):
But I love that you did it at the start.
Mikhara Ramsing (15:33):
No, we did. And something that Cam said. So we are really diligent on our retrospectives and I think particularly in the sprint phase of building an MVP, this product changes every day, sometimes hourly. And I really appreciate what comes out of our retros and our commitment to it. And something Cam said, which I think also really guides us is as individuals, we're all three very driven, high achieving individuals we like. So how does that work when you put them together in multiple uncertainties, right? We're doing user research, doing product research. You're doing go to market research, you're doing funding research. And I think he said something that was just so beautiful. It was like dependency is a good thing. And I know that just shifted everything for me where it's previously and particularly in part of big organizations, you're carrying the team, you're having to build everything and just show up and present and that's what you're being paid to do and that's why you've got a hundred people there. But here it's been so awesome to talk first, understand skillset sets first, what people can do in our team and then sort of go away and do the doing and just to be more dependent. And I really enjoy that. I think because respect and trust.
Danielle Lewis (16:38):
Yeah, just it's so important. I mean, I know we're talking about it in the context of a co-founder relationship, but even when you think about the fact that our teams largely are remote or a hybrid model these days, you've got to have that within the team as well, I think.
Tiffany Guan (16:55):
Absolutely.
Danielle Lewis (16:56):
And I think also it's really interesting, the product that you're building will help to enable that as well.
Mikhara Ramsing (17:03):
That's a great point, Danny. And something we're conscious of. We're like if we're trying to help companies affect culture, we need to have a great culture.
Danielle Lewis (17:09):
Yeah, you need to know what good looks like.
Mikhara Ramsing (17:11):
Exactly. Yeah. So we're always consciously checking on that and it all adds to making this scalable.
Danielle Lewis (17:17):
That's so cool. I love it so much. So tell me, where's the product from an in-market point of view? Are you in market, are you in development? Where are you at,
Tiffany Guan (17:30):
Mitch, you want to take I'll give the short response. I'll give the short response. So at the moment, we're still in building phase. So MVP, we have partnered with I guess one of the industry leaders. I don't know if I could say their name yet, but no spoilers. No spoilers yet when it comes to implementing these long-term workplace cultural changes and working with them to sort of develop a product that we could test within let's say the medium enterprise market. So that's sort of the phase we're at now. But we did release a beta policy generator back in December, and that was to really test our metal when it came to how can we leverage AI to build a best practice and reframe the idea of bare minimum best practice bullying, discrimination harassment policy that can be freely available for all businesses to use and implement. That's still out. But now we're how do we integrate that with the enterprise side of things, the putting in a dashboard or management. We're building out those features at the moment. So I think slated for maybe April may release, seeing how we go. So yeah,
Mikhara Ramsing (18:41):
It's crunch time.
Tiffany Guan (18:42):
That's what we're
Danielle Lewis (18:42):
At. My god, this is the time. Oh my god, this
Tiffany Guan (18:45):
Is absolutely,
Danielle Lewis (18:46):
I always know with my engineers used to say to me, it's like the last 10% is actually the 80% is 89%.
Mikhara Ramsing (18:54):
Oh my gosh. Yes, yes, we can definitely. But it feels like we've been doing 80% since we go, when we stood back and look at what we've done, I'm like, oh my goodness. And it's only been what, six months too that we started working together.
Tiffany Guan (19:04):
I think so. So close. Been having fun and it is fun.
Danielle Lewis (19:08):
That is so cool. I love it. So then that raises the question, how are you funded currently?
Mikhara Ramsing (19:16):
No, great question. And the thing that I'm sure keeps all startup founders up nights, so I think the serendipity of this too is we were all at a beautiful time in our life to commit to something like this and commit to it to the extent we want to take it. So we are bootstrapping, that's the short end of it and hustling. So Tiff picks up other contract work cams running another businesses. I was running small businesses. But I think what I've always appreciated in our sprint cadence is we always show up with meetings and we've always got something to contribute. So I know the common myths perhaps of the startup world in Silicon Valley earlier was you should be doing this full time. But it's not realistic. It's not realistic across at our generation, particularly as women, there's multiple unpaid care responsibilities we all have as well. So I'm very happy to push back on investors when they do say that because we have grit and that is the biggest measure of delivery. And if anything, it just adds to our tenacity to get things done done because yeah, we're hustling. We've got skin in the game, we're determined.
Danielle Lewis (20:22):
I respect that so much. I totally agree. I know when, so when I started, so my tech business scrunch and we were coming up, it was exactly that. It was raise lots of money, spend lots of money, work on a full-time, blah, blah, blah. And I worked full time for as long as I could before we finally took funding and then I had to do my job. But you're right, it always shocks me when investors say things like that, like, well, how am I paying rent? How am I eating food? I'm happy to eat noodles, but I still got to pay the $2 for the noodles.
Mikhara Ramsing (21:02):
It's quite a privilege to not have to hustle to do it, but I think then you're not hungry. And I think it's such an advantage to us to have that kind of intrinsic pressure.
Danielle Lewis (21:16):
I agree. And also I feel like you get more things done in the time that you have. You only have a few hours in the afternoon or one day a week or weekends or whatever it is. So I always say that moms are the best business
Mikhara Ramsing (21:33):
Owners. Oh, I have no doubt. Yes.
Danielle Lewis (21:36):
Like they get shit done. They get the most done in the time that they have. I could sit, if I have a day without meetings, I get nothing done today. I've got back to back meetings and I'll do more today in the tiny little pockets
Tiffany Guan (21:49):
That I have.
Mikhara Ramsing (21:50):
It's funny. Hey, you see how our brains work? Yes,
Danielle Lewis (21:53):
It is ridiculous. But I do love that because you're passionate about what you're doing and you found a way to make it work for each of your different circumstances. And also the fact that you are bootstrapping and putting your money and your time where your mouth is, shows that you are really excited about this business and have what it takes to see it through.
Mikhara Ramsing (22:14):
Thanks, Daniel. We appreciate your positive. Yeah, thank you. It's nice to hear that because that's often not the response, so thank you.
Danielle Lewis (22:22):
No, no, I love it. I love it. So to from here, what can we expect from you in the next 12 months besides
Mikhara Ramsing (22:28):
What you reckon too? Imminent
Danielle Lewis (22:29):
Launch.
Tiffany Guan (22:32):
Well, domination. Yes. Yes.
Danielle Lewis (22:35):
I love it.
Tiffany Guan (22:39):
It's hard to say. I think maybe I'm more tactical in sort of keeping my eyes on the ground with the product in front of me. But I mean ideally I'd love to, I don't know, I think next two, three months for me it's like when we launch, I'd love to get in the tens of users or companies that we're potentially signed with. And then I think that almost that zero to one is the hardest part. And then how do we make it scalable from there? And I think we'd love to be part of accelerators as well. We've been applying here and there potentially in the US as well. And I think that, for example, I've done textiles before in the US and I think that lens of genuinely accelerated business development is the access to growth opportunities. And that could only be a good thing. So that's my vague answer. I don't know, mix if you have any targets that you'd love us to hit.
Mikhara Ramsing (23:28):
No, and I think it's very real. We are in the zero to one game, and I love that you kept it very real, just tens of users, honestly, that's where we're up to because the way in which we're building this is very patented. And so if we do this once for zero to one, we can really get into a very quick turnaround cycle to do product after product after product. But it is the zero to one game. And I think the biggest reminder to me, particularly when I think this is tough, I can't do this without Tiff and Cam and your natural anxieties come over, you don't want to lose the good people that you're working with. But I realize we're so motivated by our vision and we're so motivated by our knowledge partners we are working with. So the leading industry organization we're sign with, their vision is a world free of domestic and family violence. We are so inspired to be able to tech partner and do that for them. And our vision is a world where compliance is best practice. When we're talking about climate, when we're talking about gender equity, the vision is so big that I don't think we'll ever lose our appetite. So in 12 months, yes, we're going to hit zero to one and perhaps get another second framework out. I think that's a really awesome big goal for the next 12 months.
Danielle Lewis (24:33):
That's so cool. And just, I love it so much because I think especially in this Instagram world we live in where it's like you need to be a billionaire tomorrow, people don't remember that. You have to get to one first. It doesn't matter how big your goals are from a user point of view, customer point of view, money point of view, you have to get to one first. You actually can't skip 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. And it is those early numbers that help you iron out product kinks that help you understand what marketing, what messaging's working, and then you can scale. So I love the acknowledgement that you have to get to one. I think that's awesome.
Mikhara Ramsing (25:17):
Thanks. Tammy.
Danielle Lewis (25:18):
What do you think that your biggest challenge getting to one will be?
Mikhara Ramsing (25:23):
I think the reality is of doing an impact led business is that there's two components to this. There's the education piece, and I think we, so unfortunately one woman dies a week from DFV in Australia and that's been happening for decades. And still we have to make the business case for why the workplace could be a great intervention point. So we are conscious that is a take of our resources, our ability. We can't just build product for needs. And I think that's reflective of all people, honestly, trying to make the world a better place. We have to educate. We exist in a system that doesn't value things in equitable ways and we're after systems change. So for me, that's the biggest barrier. I'm always conscious of the education, then the product, the education, then the product. But I'm hopeful. I think each generation keeps getting better. I do think the world is getting better. So I keep gives me hope. What about you? What do you reckon is some of the biggest
Tiffany Guan (26:14):
Hurdles? Yeah, I think it is the sell in a way. The issues that we are trying to address and the concept of making people feel safe in the workplace or protected. It's a multi-layered problem. And the whole point of this is someone's life or this affects someone directly if it's not being addressed. But then also I've got to, how do I frame this to an exec so that, oh, you've got to implement this policy in this way or include this clause so that they don't feel left out. It's separating that or integrating that sort of product mindedness to a real issue. I think Naka, you're explaining it a bit better than I am. So I think it's that, and I think just getting it in front of users and just testing the product and getting to that one.
Mikhara Ramsing (27:08):
I love it for that.
Danielle Lewis (27:10):
Oh, totally. And I think you're spot on. I do love that you have hope though. I do think you're right. We live in a time where you information is so readily accessible and there are people now championing this course. So it's great that we've almost got a little bit of awareness. So now you are coming in with the awareness and the solution. So that's great
Mikhara Ramsing (27:34):
Point, Danielle. Yeah. Yes,
Danielle Lewis (27:37):
I love it. I love it so much. Well, we could talk all day, but let's leave our beautiful Spark podcast community with one last piece of advice. So I'm going to call on both of you. No one's getting off the hook here. So reflecting on your time in business, whether it be this business or previous businesses, what would be one piece of advice that you would give to another woman in business to help her on her journey?
Mikhara Ramsing (28:05):
Yeah, it's always hard when you're trying to think of one, but community is always the word that comes to my mind. I have done the solo founder a thing a few times and I just would never do it again. The strength I get from Tiff and Cam to rock up in this bootstrapped business, and we all have really high opportunity costs. We're all very skilled. We know what we could be doing in market, but where's the impact? And I think just living for something bigger. So I think for me it's like community and vision and I think the reminder is realize what your baseline is. You've worked so hard to get there, you can always go back there. So take the risk if it makes sense. And I think that's what reminds me. I wouldn't be doing anything else. And I know that is a privilege to say as well, but I'm also reminded of my baseline. I'm like, okay, this is what I can go back to, but I'm not making the impact I want to make in the world.
Danielle Lewis (28:58):
I love that. That's great. What about you, TIFF?
Tiffany Guan (29:03):
Honestly, don't be afraid to be yourself. I mean, you're starting a business or wherever you are in that stage of business, it's like you've got to know yourself as well in terms of, I don't know. I've been grappling with this recently, so I can't package it up nicely. But when I've made the most progress both in this startup and I reflect on a previous startup, it was when I was unafraid to voice my concerns in the way that I experienced them. And people genuinely listen to me. It's like, oh, okay. But that's the second part of it. Having that community around you and having the people, your co-founders or that will actually reflect that and support you along the way. So I don't know if that helps.
Danielle Lewis (29:46):
I think you said it perfectly. I think you said it perfectly. I could not agree with you more. When we are our true selves and we show up vulnerably and we're open and we're honest, we make the most progress, we make deeper connections with the people around us, in our community, on our team, whether that be founders or just helpers or whatever it might be. So I think you both absolutely nailed it. You guys are incredible. Thank you so much for sharing your stories and your wisdom on Spark tv. I'm so grateful for you.
Mikhara Ramsing (30:22):
We love chatting to you, Danielle. Thank you for having us an opportunity to reflect together and for your kind words and encouragement too. It really makes a difference.
Tiffany Guan (30:30):
Yes. Thanks so much, Danielle.
Danielle Lewis (30:32):
Thank you. Oh my God, no. I'm so excited for the next 12 months for you guys and we will have you back in 12 months time to check in on progress and to share all of the goodness with all of the people in the Spark community that should be getting their hands on this tool. So I'm so excited to share it with everyone.
Mikhara Ramsing (30:50):
Thanks Tanya. Thanks so much.
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