#awinewith Sarah Hamilton
MEET Sarah
Sarah is the Co-Founder of Bella Box and Sand & Sky.
Find Sarah here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:09):
Amazing. Sarah, thank you so much for being here.
Sarah Hamilton (00:13):
Thank you for having me. I'm glad that we made it happen and perfect for a Thursday to have an early line.
Danielle Lewis (00:18):
So good. So good. I am here for it.
Sarah Hamilton (00:21):
I'm nearly just finishing my kobocha and then I'm straight there. Perfect.
Danielle Lewis (00:24):
Perfect. But look, let's start out by telling your story. So obviously I know you through Sand and Sky, but so much other stuff on the go that I'd love for you to share. But also I guess the big question I wanted to ask you is how did you get there? So have you always been in business, a business owner, a founder, or was there a previous career? What does that trajectory look like?
Sarah Hamilton (00:53):
So I think a good place to start is our family is very, I like being in business. I hate the term entrepreneur for some reason. So always had their own businesses and that was quite normal for us to see. And I'm one of four children to see in my dad or my mom working really hard outside hours. On the weekends we'd have to go, we'd go Dad's first business was a chain of carpet and furniture stores. Very 1980s. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (01:19):
I grew up awesome.
Sarah Hamilton (01:20):
Yeah, exactly. That's business then. And oh, totally go there and put leaflets in pamphlets to promote upcoming sales and things like that. So that was where we grew up. I started my career in finance, but for really fun companies. So I worked in London for Days and Confused in New York. I worked with Food Magazine and I helped them understand the finance side. And I think when you're working in a creative business like that, because there's not a lot of people that are across the finances, you get a really unique view on the business and the fundamentals. And I liked it. It was a really tangible product that I could understand and then translate into financials and hopefully explain to the rest of the team the ins and outs and spin. I ended up being the general manager. So yeah, it got even more across the business. And when I was in New York, Birchbox launched and Birchbox were these two girls from Harvard, zero beauty experience that launched a beauty sampling service. So subscription commerce was crazy. My twin sister came over to New York, she's based in Singapore, and she was like, let's do this in Australia. And I feel like we were just like, okay, cool. And I'd been in New York in nearly four years, so I was happy to come back. And so then I came home and we started Bella Box in September, 2011, I think in the end. Oh
Danielle Lewis (02:38):
Wow, cool.
Sarah Hamilton (02:40):
And we got investment on board, lots of high net worth individuals in Melbourne in our first year. And then we sold 50% of the business to Fairfax a couple of years later. And we just got really good at marketing other people's products. And that was at a time where social media was really just picking up. So you weren't competing against the big corporates for advertising, you were new market, you were
Danielle Lewis (03:04):
Paving the way.
Sarah Hamilton (03:05):
Yeah, you're creating that. And it made you realize the power of products that actually work. It's really simple. It's like the product must work and it has to work really quickly and it has to look good on social media. So my sister and her husband started Supernova and I joined very quickly thereafter, and the goal was to make e-commerce profitable. And one of our early investors in Bella Box had said to us he had a lot of work in the US and he said, you'll work 10 times as hard to make a sale in Australia than you will in the us. It's like it was a throwaway comment at lunch or something like that. And then from there we were like, okay, well we're just going to launch brands that are in the us. We have no interest in Australian sales. And it was sort of like as if you have experience to do that. Okay, I know. There you go. We had no experience to do that on guys, but we just made it work. And I think we're at a time where again, you can do social media advertising from anywhere, and it felt very weird for Australian brands to be in the US and people were like, why are you doing that? And we were literally because of this one comment that was said to us a few ago. Did
Danielle Lewis (04:27):
It translate? Did you find selling into the US easier?
Sarah Hamilton (04:31):
Oh, without a doubt. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (04:33):
Wow. Okay,
Sarah Hamilton (04:34):
Cool. Yeah, it was still to this day, I think the revenue for the supernova brands, which are sand and sky, cocoa and Eve, skinny mint and body Bos would still be 60 to 70% would be US revenue. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (04:49):
Wow. Okay.
Sarah Hamilton (04:50):
Yeah. And I think that's hard conceptually for people to get. They're just like, but how do you make work? And it's like, but it's the same. It's products that work fun marketing. So I always think about it, what makes you stop when you're on Instagram or TikTok and Facebook, if that makes you stop, it's going to make someone else stop. So how do you create advertising around that to get people to buy your products and it has to work. So that was, it was almost like just this step-by-step, like what made sense next? And that's really, yeah, and I certainly spent most of my time on sand and sky and it was self-funded by design. We wanted to be profitable and that business is going through its next evolution. And I decided early last year and then finished at the end of September that I really like the start of a brand. And Supernova got pretty, it's a big business, it's a complicated business, and I kind of like the fun stuff. It's scrappy,
Danielle Lewis (05:53):
What do we do? Yeah, the idea phase, anything is possible phase,
Sarah Hamilton (05:57):
But, and then since I am finishing September, I'm now involved in six different brands.
Danielle Lewis (06:04):
Oh my God, do you not sleep?
Sarah Hamilton (06:07):
I feel like I went through this three minutes of rest and then I was like, okay, what can I do? I'm back in. And so it's a really a good mix. So three that haven't launched, one is called Pool Boy. It's like this beautiful inflatable pools brand. Helen O'Connor is a fashion brand externally. And then I'm working on another brand that I can't say you just yet because I've got to sign a contract, but
Danielle Lewis (06:33):
So what capacity are you working with these brands in?
Sarah Hamilton (06:38):
So two main ones, I'm more operational and then the others are more advisory. So it's as and when I'm needed, but quite low touch. It's more strategic. And really what I'm hoping to create and is already working now is there's so many synergies between the businesses that you get to one great PR agency. You're like, okay, cool. I have six brands.
Danielle Lewis (07:02):
I know the one,
Sarah Hamilton (07:03):
Yeah, this is who you can work with. So it feels, departure from Supernova is a really big beast. And then trying to do brands a little bit differently and less intense and less heads and more about utilizing relationships and perhaps outsourcing some different things, which is kind of what I'm into. So we'll see.
Danielle Lewis (07:26):
I love it. And also, I mean, I just love the concept of I guess a formula and a repeatable process. And it's like, so you've done this, right, so why not do it again?
Sarah Hamilton (07:39):
Totally. And I had this big thing when I was having my three minutes of not doing that much. I was like, what is the perfect beauty brand and what does it need to have? Where does it need to sell? What does that mean now? And I feel like we're getting close to that sort of formula. And as I said, those three brands that are yet to launch, I'm really confident they'll do well. But yeah, they very much follow that same formula, but have their own unique and great products. That is absolutely the basis is products that work. There is just no way of getting around it. And it's also ingredients lists that people can understand.
Danielle Lewis (08:15):
Yes. Oh my God. Exactly. And do you think as a consumer we're all leaning towards clean a little bit more?
Sarah Hamilton (08:24):
I feel
Danielle Lewis (08:25):
Clean. Well, do you think we don't care as long as
Sarah Hamilton (08:28):
Some people don't care? I think it's definitely important. There's still, we need to know what's going into our bottle, what we're putting on topically, but I think the science part is just so important. The products have to work, so it can't just be all organic and feel nice on your skin. There has to be a benefit to it. And the science side of that I think is really important within ingredient.
Danielle Lewis (08:51):
Yeah, it's really interesting. I lived with someone once who was all about natural, there couldn't be any chemicals, blah, blah, blah. So I went through the phase of the deodorant that you do on by your hand and this and the that, and I just cracked it and I was like, you know what? I just want stuff that works and I don't care and I want to feel fabulous, and I'm sorry if that kills all my insights.
Sarah Hamilton (09:16):
Yeah, I went through a massive, I use native deodorant, I wonder, which is natural. And I went through everything and this is the best.
Danielle Lewis (09:24):
Yeah, I have heard. It's really good. Actually,
Sarah Hamilton (09:26):
I laugh because I might have to get it from the us but that is my favorite. So yeah, I feel like I've gone through that too, and that's what I like now, understanding what the ingredients are. If there's heaps of water and alcohol in something, I'm like, why do I want to put that on my face? It's too drying. So I think there's things that you can do and you just want to read some ingredients that sound like you know what they are. I think they're going
Danielle Lewis (09:48):
To do something.
Sarah Hamilton (09:49):
Yeah, exactly. But yeah, 100% the results and quick results are super important with price.
Danielle Lewis (09:55):
Very impatient. So then how has your, I guess, so going from finance, from operations to creating your own business to selling a business, I feel like you might've picked up one or two skills along the way. How do you think you've changed and grown as a business owner as you went through those different phases? Has that sort of meant that you have had to step up, become a leader, learn different skills? What has that process been like for you?
Sarah Hamilton (10:29):
It's really interesting. I just did, there's a VC catalyst course that's on Melbourne Uni about investing, and it's really, it's funny. My dad always said to us, you should do accounting at uni because you'll always use it. And that kind of rings true. If you have a business that you don't understand the unit economics, and this is not Tesla, this is the places that I know. If you don't understand the financial side and how you can make money, it's really hard to run. So that almost, that's just
Danielle Lewis (11:01):
You're always stressed. Yeah,
Sarah Hamilton (11:02):
Yeah. And you need to just, because in a few of my investments, I'm really like, damn, that's really important to me that I need someone who understands how they can make money out of their business. Otherwise, if that's not there, then they're all bravado, then that's not right for me. So that has been a learning that just still is so true to this day. It's like,
Danielle Lewis (11:24):
Well, I mean it's really interesting and I like how you've kind of in one sentence said, I'm doing a VC course, and then I had this piece of advice that accounting, finance, operational would be very important. I feel like we went through a phase of raising money and spending all of the money and the startups that were in the media or the unicorns or that just raised a hundred million dollars of blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I know those guys, but they don't have any money. They spend all their money.
Sarah Hamilton (11:54):
Exactly. And the best analogy that was part of this course was like, you need to create a bridge so you get fundraising in, and that money has to get you to the next step. What's the next, it can't be a peer where you just spend all the money and then it's over. And I'm just like, God, it's just such a really simple concept, but absolutely right. You need whatever. If you're putting your own money in, if you're getting funding, what are your milestones to grow that business and how do you get there with the limited amount of money that you have? And if you don't know that you're going to spend all the money, I absolutely can.
Danielle Lewis (12:25):
Totally, totally.
Sarah Hamilton (12:27):
So I really love that. So I think that's just something, as I said, stayed true. But I don't know, I've learned so much. I think the biggest thing that still keeps also ringing true is nothing is insurmountable. There's always different things that happen. And that's why I think sometimes Australian brands are worried about launching globally. I don't know how to do that. It's like we didn't really know how to do that. We launched into retailers not having ever done retail or wholesale before. We didn't, and we just did it and we screwed up things, but we were always willing to learn. So that's always important. I think it's hard leading big teams. That would be something. At the moment, I'm going through a phase of I don't want to manage anyone. No offense to everyone. I'm sort of like,
Danielle Lewis (13:11):
That's my new vision board people.
Sarah Hamilton (13:15):
Yeah, exactly. And it's almost then when you're in a business, how do you create a culture that doesn't need all of these people management all of the time? I felt like super nervous sometimes in my role was like a hundred percent people, and I loved everyone that I worked with, so that was great. But I like doing the work, I like getting stuff done, and that felt, this is a lot and maybe it's fundamentally we're just structured in the wrong way to make that work. But that's my thing at the moment. It's like I've had a few opportunities, I'm like, I don't want to manage anyone. So if you,
Danielle Lewis (13:46):
No, and it's super interesting because I was talking to a founder in one of these interviews a few weeks ago, and that was one of the things she said. She's like, I've kind of gone from founder to CEO. I used to do all the stuff and now I have people to do all the stuff and all I do is talk to the people. He's like, I like doing the stuff. That was the fun part. So it's just very interesting. I think we start founders. We are this breed that have these great ideas. We have the energy, we start these things and we are not always the one to be the CEO or hold onto it forever. Sometimes appointing somebody else or selling it or whatever in it is a fantastic path.
Sarah Hamilton (14:34):
I could not agree more. And I think it's so topical for me right at the moment because I've invested in some brands. We are looking at how we structure certain companies, and I'm the same. I'm like at some point a CEO or some point soon probably be someone that's better than this than I am. And that is totally fine. And this view that if you're the founder, you're the founder forever. I just totally disagree because the business totally changes and maybe there's a role for you or maybe there's not. And I feel like what I've learned since I left Supernova is there's just so much opportunity. I've been humble and blown away by all these different things coming and it makes me, I said no to one thing because they wanted a lot of my time and I was like, kind of really enjoy this. I really enjoy lots of different things and different opportunities. I don't want to turn up every day and Major 15. I just don't want to do that anymore. Yes.
Danielle Lewis (15:32):
Well, but I think it's interesting because I think as founders, when we start something, a lot of people, people call it their baby, and then you go, well, it's my baby. I'm supposed to love it forever and keep it forever. And there's almost a feeling of failure or something when it hasn't quite gone to that plan. But I think exactly what you've done and that self-reflection and what do I actually like doing? How do I want my day to look? How do I want my businesses to look? How do I want to structure this so that I actually put my most into it because I get so energized. That is an excellent exercise to go through as a founder.
Sarah Hamilton (16:13):
Totally. And then also being able to admit that and then take action. And especially if as a founder, you've got investors on board to say that maybe there is someone better than me now to do this. What do we think about that? And then the greatest thing is you hire someone and they've got KPIs and they've got to do all the things that are like, you're like, you have to get that done. Yeah, you
Danielle Lewis (16:33):
Can report back to me on that. Yeah, exactly.
Sarah Hamilton (16:36):
I'm going to give you opinions now you have to do the work. That sounds awesome. It does.
Danielle Lewis (16:44):
I need a few of those.
Sarah Hamilton (16:45):
And then as we said, then you can get back to the doing stuff as opposed to the management of things. So yeah, I do think there's a big opportunity for a lot of, I think a lot of brands, founders to be able to go through that process.
Danielle Lewis (16:58):
Yeah, absolutely. So obviously that's challenging just doing that self-reflection, having the business grow. What do you think the biggest challenges are that you've seen in any of your businesses? On the lines? Good. Excellent.
Sarah Hamilton (17:17):
Yeah, sorry.
Danielle Lewis (17:18):
No, this is probably wine at the right time, so yes. No, so it's interesting because I guess one of the purposes of Spark is to help share stories so people can shortcut, challenges, successes, all of those things. I was like, I always believe in, if you can look, I like to learn from mistakes, but I'm like, if you can learn from somebody else's mistakes and avoid discomfort, that's a great thing. So I always like to ask whether there have been any key challenges over the several businesses, decades of running businesses that kind of stick out to you?
Sarah Hamilton (17:57):
Yes. Having babies while fundraising is probably not something I'd recommend to anyone. I did that twice with Bella Box. I think I signed the deal with Fairfax the day after my second child was born and I was still in the hospital. Oh
Danielle Lewis (18:13):
My God.
Sarah Hamilton (18:14):
Don't do that. Don't do that. Okay,
Danielle Lewis (18:15):
Cool. Cool. Take some time. Take some time for yourself.
Sarah Hamilton (18:18):
Take some time. Not one day. Take some time. I would say
Danielle Lewis (18:23):
How did, wait, wait, wait, pause. How did investors respond to that? So I've got a couple of female, I've got a few female founder friends, and so I've not had kids, but I have raised capital five times. But I've got female founder friends who have gone through the capital raising process whilst pregnant. I've had female founder friends who've gone through the capital raising process, not pregnant, but asked when they're going to have kids. So I'm interested in how the process was for you.
Sarah Hamilton (18:52):
So funny. So the first time, so with Bella Box, so that was 10 years ago. My daughter is turning 10 this year. When we went through that process because I was pregnant, I did say to the lead investors, I'm like, you can ask. And this is my first child, so I don't know what's going to happen, but I knew my personality and my work ethic, so I was like, you can ask me whatever you want because I want you to be confident that I'm in. This is not, I know that I'm not having a baby, but it won't change my life. I think I literally said, it won't change my life. It did, but
Danielle Lewis (19:23):
Just instill that confidence. Exactly.
Sarah Hamilton (19:25):
But it was more that I was like, this is
Danielle Lewis (19:26):
What I'm doing. I'm in. Yeah, so you're like, I'm not changing. Yeah.
Sarah Hamilton (19:30):
And so this guy said to me, can I ask how old you are? And I was just like, I've given you cart. I've given you anything you want to ask. And you ask how old I was. And it turns out I'm one month older than him. I was laughing and then I'm like, now I feel like shit because I'm getting funding off someone who is younger than me.
Danielle Lewis (19:56):
Wow.
Sarah Hamilton (20:02):
And you've done it before. What I found really hard the second time around was it was much more money. There were a lot of lawyers involved, and then work was really crazy. So I couldn't separate the both. And I had the second time around, I sat, so my daughter was two, I was about to have my second child and my daughter, sorry, wasn't even two yet. She was like 21 months about to have my second child and you're juggling childcare. My ruby was sick, all that stuff. And then I'm like lawyers on the phone every two seconds. So once I just had no one to look after Ruby, I knew I had a big day trying to work through the deal. Jamie had something work on that he couldn't miss. So I had to drop Ruby off at my father-in-law's place. And I cried,
Danielle Lewis (20:49):
Oh gosh.
Sarah Hamilton (20:50):
I couldn't control myself. And he was just like, oh,
Danielle Lewis (20:53):
Oh god.
Sarah Hamilton (20:54):
And I'm from Geelong, so I rang up mom and I'm like, I need you to come to Melbourne. I dunno what to do. I was just so, because it was just relentless every day. And I think Ivan said to the guys, I'm like, it'd just be really good if we could just, investment was just one day a week. So it'd be like Wednesday, investor day, like lawyer day, everything.
Danielle Lewis (21:11):
Ask me anything all day. This is the only day you get
Sarah Hamilton (21:15):
I know about it. So that was tough, that part. But interestingly enough, because I pitched two times pregnant, I would say, and I think I pitched to one female. It was all men. It was all men, which I've never had a, I'm fine, I'm relaxed, I'm fine with it. But there was only one room that I walked into that I felt like they're like, no, we're out. She's pregnant. Everyone else was gone. Yeah, okay. And this is 10, eight years ago. That's pretty amazing to have that happen. So yeah, I didn't have a problem with it, but I know that lots of people do, and I understand that people sometimes say, are you going to have kids? I've never thought about saying that to anyone, but good. Yeah, it's not a great thing. But the other thing thing that I think is really good now is that what we didn't do with our term sheets, so both investors, is we didn't really understand them.
(22:17):
We were just so amazed that someone would want to give us money. And I think especially for females, you believe in the good of everyone and everyone's trying to be good. So investors are just trying to protect their interests. So they're not trying to be mean most of the time. They're trying to protect their interests. But I think what I failed at on both occasions was to understand the terms and really lay, now I've done this course, I feel like, damn, that would be really helpful. I've done that 10 years ago. Understand the terms, but also be more picky about what the investors are going to bring to whatever they're investing in. So it can't be dumb money. Don't just want money for money's sake. Money that helps us accelerate our growth. And the growth can't just be what we drive. It's like what you can do. So what doors you open and having that in writing as part of the process. That is my lifelong lesson, and that's why I'd like to invest in brands because I really want to be a founder friendly investor.
Danielle Lewis (23:16):
And it's really interesting. So having gone through Covid, I am kind of on the fence about investment. So I raised capital and my investors are very quiet and I wouldn't say it's about money. I've definitely had introductions, all that kind of stuff, but there's not a lot of interaction at all. And a lot of them are angels, so they'll actually bet on a lot of startups, some win, some lose, so they don't actually have that much interaction, whereas a VC far more invested in a business. But what I will say is having gone through Covid where the whole world turned upside down, having quiet investors wasn't a bad thing. Having quiet investors where they went, you can, this really sucks, but you just do whatever you have to do to survive. Obviously they were seeing some of their investments fall over. That was actually magic because it meant we could really just go internal and focus on the business and getting through and changing things and looking after our people and without that worry. So yeah, I've seen
Sarah Hamilton (24:26):
That's smart. Exactly. They're giving you, so I believe investment, not telling you what to do, being like, you are good at this. Keep doing. We think we can help by here, here, and here. But coming in and trying to change how you've operated, just because I think it's a different model. You're like, well, that's not what you invested in. You invested in X. So yeah, kind of think your guys, guys and girls that are letting you do it, they trust you and that's what you need right now. You don't need what's going on with this. Every day was changing during Covid, so it's impossible to totally know what was going happen the next day. It was pretty crazy.
Danielle Lewis (25:04):
Yeah, but I agree
Sarah Hamilton (25:05):
With you. You're saying it's over because
Danielle Lewis (25:07):
I know I love how we've said that. I only had Covid a month ago. I'm just recovering. Oh, so funny. So interesting. So you've raised capital a couple of times. I love the comment about the term sheet. I was exactly the same. I've never felt so stupid in my entire life. I thought I was really smart till I was negotiating a term sheet and it was, well, I'd never done it before, especially the first couple of times. And so our first round was super simple. It was sort of just more friends and family. So we documented it, but it wasn't really anything. And then the first angel group, they wanted their term sheet and it was very, very intense and on reflection, again, I'm the same. There's a couple of things. So even for scrunch, we took on all of the debt personally as founders, as a part of the deal. And I know I, because that's how we started scrunch. We started scrunch with personal loans, credit cards, all those things. And I look back and I was like, that was so stupid. But
Sarah Hamilton (26:15):
Yeah, exactly. And sometimes that does happen because some people go into business and there is that debt. They're just like, well, we can't make it work with the debt, so we're going to buy the assets. That can happen. That's not, but I think the biggest thing is, my thing for that in that situation is like, okay, if that happens, then what point A, if there's a realization event, do you also get paid back that debt?
Danielle Lewis (26:37):
Yes.
Sarah Hamilton (26:38):
Okay, fine, fine, fine, fine for right now, but if we make you money over and above what you expected, then that 50 grand, 20 grand, a hundred grand, we get that back. That would be my biggest thing is accept those terms, but make sure if there's a realization event where people make two x, three x, whatever the number is, that you also get that back. It's just something to feel like, yes, I've been screwed over here, but there is an opportunity
Danielle Lewis (27:06):
I can make the outcome somewhere else.
Sarah Hamilton (27:09):
Yeah, that would be my thing for that is like, okay, cool.
Danielle Lewis (27:12):
It needs to be a founder therapy group for people that have been through this. So we could say, okay, I'm totally unemotional about this. This is what happened to me. Think about this.
Sarah Hamilton (27:19):
Exactly. I think now that's why it's really good. I think there's a lot more people that have gone through it and a lot more people I think are willing to lend their time because it is tough. And I feel like the investment community in Australia is changing where they are more founder friendly would be my view. But yeah, you should always feel like you've got a good deal, especially if there's upside. If there's not an upside, you're like, oh, that was my risk. I lost it. But if there's upside and everyone wins, then you've got to
Danielle Lewis (27:45):
Well, and I think the most important thing is obviously we talked about founders potentially moving out of the business at some point, but founders are the ones that drive that initial growth. So the term sheet or the investment or the deal has to reflect looking after them so that they are incentivized to grow the business.
Sarah Hamilton (28:04):
Exactly. And I just feel like there's more and more in the community that are thinking that. It's like, yeah, if you make the founders make no money, take on personal debt, right? You like, are they're going to be motivated to keep growing this business? No, they're going to be stressed. Is that really what you want? Or do you want them to feel rewarded? Then they're going to go the extra mile. Yeah, it's motivation. It's not about just protecting your interests as Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (28:30):
Exactly right. Exactly right. So speaking of growth then, of all of the businesses you've been involved in, obviously you talked about loving the starting phase where you were part of the ideation, the creativity, and that initial market traction. Have you had or seen any common themes in the businesses on how those businesses actually got to scale?
Sarah Hamilton (28:55):
I think especially now, it's a lot about how you engage the customer. So as I said, amazing product. I really love Amazon step one. Yeah, Amazon, US thrives on good product. So if you have good product, you get great reviews, you can be five times the price of the nearest competitor and you'll sell more. I love that. And I think then the other part of that is the brands that do well is how do you engage, as I said earlier, how do you stop someone from scrolling? What is interesting to them and how do you keep going for that? I think what we did was sand and sky that we did really well was we looked at what's the most engaging videos on Instagram at that point. And it was makeup videos, makeup tutorials, because they were one of the only bits of content that people watch from start to finish because you can't have half a face of makeup, half
Danielle Lewis (29:42):
A face of makeup. This is
Sarah Hamilton (29:43):
True, the Halloween look, it's not going to look, and I forget which one of the girls came up with this in the team I remember because it's amazing. But so all we did was ask those influencers to put the mask on before they did their makeup look
Danielle Lewis (29:58):
Cool, but then
Sarah Hamilton (29:59):
The mask was just everywhere because these videos are watched. So that's where it's like say excellent product, but then how you engage with a consumer that's relevant today and that changes. So that's hard. So it's almost like you have to sort of futureproof yourself, how is this cool? How is it fun? And it still works. I think that's the common theme of these products. And I do think now omnichannel is really important when we're lucky with Santa Sky and Coco are to do direct to consumer and that was fine. Now I think there's just so much media that you need to make sure that you've got partners working for you. So yeah, the retail, wholesale, Amazon, all of these play into the sales for the brand, but that you need all guns firing. It can't just be, I don't think a single, some people run brands on Amazon and they do really well, but that wouldn't be my deal. But yeah, I feel like I need to have everything firing.
Danielle Lewis (30:58):
Well, I think it's interesting because it's meeting the customer where they are. And you know what I think of myself, I shop in one place, let's just take groceries as an example. I shop at Woolies or Kohl's or whatever. Sometimes it's online, sometimes it's in store. If it's a bespoke product that I have to go to a website to get, probably not going to do it, but beauty's different, I might go to Mecca mostly for things. So if it's not there, I probably won't find it on my own unless I happen to stumble across it on Instagram. So it is meeting the customer where they are. And sometimes that means that it can't just be a single channel.
Sarah Hamilton (31:36):
100%. I totally agree. And I think then that's why with websites you need to really draw them in because the thing is, once you get them to your website, the great thing is your basket size is really high because they've made that massive commitment to buy just the brand from your website. And that's why if you like it, the free
Danielle Lewis (31:52):
Shipping.
Sarah Hamilton (31:52):
Yeah, exactly. The free shipping and you have other accessories products to buy. Like I'm here, I don't want to buy just one thing. I want to buy a few things
Danielle Lewis (32:00):
Or subscribe and don't make me remember that I have to buy this again.
Sarah Hamilton (32:06):
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So that's so much work that you have to do to make sure the customer is, I even think abandoned cart emails, I get so shocked if I go somewhere if I'm like, they haven't got shop pay, which is my Shopify pay is my favorite thing that I'm like, well, I hope you're sending me an email to tell me that I haven't bought everything in my cart otherwise I'm just not going to buy it. I find that so strange now if brands don't do that.
Danielle Lewis (32:28):
Yeah, well, and it's interesting. It's like there's a playbook now. There's things that work. You do not have to have a custom website. You go onto someone, like you can build it in a day if you want to. It's got all of those features like abandoned cart emails, shop pay, Google Pay, all of the things. There's almost no excuse for not having and quite a number of the features now.
Sarah Hamilton (32:53):
Exactly. Yeah, I totally agree. And there's still some big brands in Australia that don't have them, so that's why I always laugh about it. I'm just
Danielle Lewis (33:00):
Doing
Sarah Hamilton (33:00):
That. That's just so
Danielle Lewis (33:02):
Crazy. But I love that because I'm like, it means founders can compete. So it means if you have an idea today and you can be on there tomorrow making things happen. And the big behemoth, yes, they've got the brand recognition, all that kind of stuff, but they're lagging behind on the technology because it takes them so long internally to approve anything. So that's why these awesome little brands do so well.
Sarah Hamilton (33:28):
No, I totally agree. Very true.
Danielle Lewis (33:30):
I love that. And interesting to multichannel, just that multichannel idea. I also think it applies to marketing. I get blown away. Obviously Instagram has been critical with beauty brand success, but I don't believe that Instagram is a strategy. You have to think about marketing more holistically. There's so many different channels. Again, meeting the consumer where they are.
Sarah Hamilton (33:52):
Totally. Yeah. I'm trying to think. I even saw who did I see advertising on a bus the other day and I was actually really impressed. It was a beauty brand. I can't think of it now, but I was really like cool
Danielle Lewis (34:01):
Bus I that sad.
Sarah Hamilton (34:02):
Yeah. But I love that. Noticed it. I was like
Danielle Lewis (34:05):
Totally
Sarah Hamilton (34:05):
Brand. I was really like, oh. And then of course I always think, and you'd be the same if I get sucked in by marketing, well done. I know, know your strategy, but I'm in And it is. The product's good. So yeah, I saw that the other day and I was like, I don't mind that they're doing that because it's a different medium and we know that you need quite a few touchpoint before people buy. And I also think for a brand, it makes you look bigger than what you are traditional advertising. People are like, wow, I've got some budget. So yeah, I kind of like that. I think that's smart.
Danielle Lewis (34:40):
And I just think too, everyone's going digital. There's going to be a little bit of a trend to pass at home, physical pamphlets, whatever it is exactly. Because it's so much less saturated now. How do you do things differently?
Sarah Hamilton (34:56):
And then when you see that, when I see the bus, I notice it. Whereas if I see an ad on Instagram, I'm just like, I'm so used to being advertised to. I'm like,
Danielle Lewis (35:06):
And scrolling past bus,
Sarah Hamilton (35:08):
Even on one of the brands I'm working on, our branding agency presented the brand. Id like the logo on an outdoor poster. And I was laughing. You guys have literally made me want to buy outdoor advertising because that's so good. Stands out compared to all the other outdoor advertising that I've seen. So yeah, I agree. And it's probably cheaper now. So I do think there's that. Why not?
Danielle Lewis (35:34):
Exactly. I love that so much. So then of all of this business chat, now you strike me as someone who is very energetic, has a lot of energy, is that just how you are as a person or do you actually have to take or be intentional around your self-care slash making sure that you can actually show up to all of these businesses that you create and grow and do all the things?
Sarah Hamilton (36:00):
Very kind to say. I think I'm naturally energetic and I love what I do. And that's why I think this epiphany since I've finished at Supernova, that I can do lots of things that I really, I love talking to people. I love learning. So yes, I'm very energetic, I need to exercise. I'm not exercising enough that really, and I need to be relatively healthy. Wine is grapes, but yeah,
Danielle Lewis (36:24):
That's a food group
Sarah Hamilton (36:26):
There. That would be the one area that perhaps I could improve on. But I'm kind of like, well, that's life. You can't be goofy. So yeah, I try to keep everything in balance. Definitely. It's sort of funny now and you would know this, but there's so much more on so many more events on, and I try to rationalize those a bit because obviously I have young kids, they've been here and so I'd almost, and I love going out for lunch, so I'd love to go out for a lunch over a dinner. So yeah, I think it's for me being aware, but I am naturally very energetic and I just love what I do.
Danielle Lewis (37:03):
Awesome. I love that. I make a lot
Sarah Hamilton (37:04):
Of me time. Yeah, I'm fine.
Danielle Lewis (37:06):
And that's fine. I mean I love people's responses to that because sometimes the founders that are tuning in are searching, they're kind of still in that, I'm not sure how to keep up my own energy phase, but this is always good to hear what other people do. So look on that note, let's wrap with one last question. So if anybody is either struggling to hit go, they've got this grand idea and they're not sure if they should take the leap, are there any things, any lessons, anything you wish you knew when you first started? Or any advice that you could give aspiring entrepreneurs?
Sarah Hamilton (37:46):
I think you need to be dedicated to it. And I think it's something that luckily I've never lacked, so it's hard to, the reflection is it's right, you need to be dedicated. I find it hard if people are doing it part-time to see how they're going to make it work. Like this is a life, life-changing event. And the biggest thing I've learned is the more you dedicate it to yourself, the more you can solve any challenges along the way and you can make it successful. If you're going to be part-time and you're going to be like that in your mind, I'm doing this part-time, I'm doing it after work, rah blah. That's not really taking a risk and a business is a risk. So yeah, that would be my, I don't planning as well. So it's like get it out there, as you said, build a website in a day and see what happens. And it's hard. You need the financial perseverance and backing to be able to jump into something and not get paid for a little while. So I totally appreciate how hard that is. And I've gone through it. I feel like when Ruby was first born, I think our nanny got more money than we did every single week.
Danielle Lewis (38:50):
I've been
Sarah Hamilton (38:50):
There, so, so that is a massive consideration, but it's almost like if you're going to do it, you need to dedicate yourself to it. And there will be challenges and failures along the way. And if you can't be in the mindset for me, I think every single day, I know you're going to have down days, then it is going to be hard to overcome. So get buckle up. It's going to be kind of crazy and dedicate yourself to it. Don't do it sort of half
Danielle Lewis (39:18):
Heartedly or
Sarah Hamilton (39:19):
Heartedly. I was going to say ask, but yeah.
Danielle Lewis (39:21):
Perfect. Perfect. Even better. Even better. I love it so much. Well, Sarah, you've been fantastic. Thank you so much for spending your time with the Spark community. I know even as we were talking, I was just jotting down a couple of things to myself. So that is phenomenal and yeah, absolutely inspirational. So thank you much so much for spending the time. Cheers for on Spark tv.
Sarah Hamilton (39:49):
Well done with Spark. Thank you. Thank
Danielle Lewis (39:51):
You.
