#awinewith Phoebe Lee
MEET Phoebe
Phoebe is the Founder of Little Grey Box.
Find Phoebe here:
Little Grey Box website and Instagram @littlegreybox_phoebe.
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:08):
Let's do it. Let's get started.
Phoebe Lee (00:10):
Okay. I'm ready.
Danielle Lewis (00:12):
Amazing. Phoebe, thank you so much for joining us here on Spark tv. I am so honored to have you.
Phoebe Lee (00:21):
I'm happy to be here with you
Danielle Lewis (00:23):
Now we have known each other in a few different walks of life, I think, but primarily we met through scrunch when we're running influencer campaigns because you have the amazing platform, a little gray box, and it's evolved quite a lot over the years. But I wanted to start things off just by asking you how you got here. So was there a career before this? Were you always a creator? How did you get to where you are today?
Phoebe Lee (00:58):
There is a big question.
(01:01):
I think honestly, my story is something that a lot of people have experienced in their lives. I was a person that just never really knew what I wanted to do with my life and everybody, not everybody, but it felt like people at school even already had their whole career plan mapped out. People knew I want to be this, I want to do that. I want to be a doctor, I want to go here. And they're choosing subjects based on what they want to do In the long term. I had no idea. I was just trying to get out of there, just trying to make it. I think looking back now, it was definitely a confidence and a self-worth thing. I didn't believe in myself enough to really be honest with myself about my likes and my interests and what I thought I could achieve. So I left high school, no idea, just kind of moved around all different kinds of jobs, admin, this, that shop, working in shop, whatever. And then I started working for the Queensland government. My auntie helped me apply because she was working there and I had no idea how to do it.
Danielle Lewis (01:54):
Thank you auntie. This is amazing.
Phoebe Lee (01:58):
And I kind of get sucked into that. And it was easy. It's good money. Once you're in the machine, you're in the machine and you're falling along. And then this funny thing starts to happen where all of a sudden each year starts to look the same and you start to feel this thing building in you where you're just not really fulfilled or you're not really happy and you start thinking, what is I about? What am I doing? And then my husband, or he was my fiance at the time, Matt, he's our videographer for Little Cray Box, and he's also an amazing human. Him and I were talking and we're like, I just need to get out of Brisbane and do something. So decided we'd moved to London and while we were going over there, he said, if you could do anything with your life, you could be anything or be anyone, what would you be? We're moving to a new country. This is your chance to reinvent yourself. And I was just drunk enough.
Danielle Lewis (02:46):
I love this so much. Yes, I'm on cliffhanger. Tell me,
Phoebe Lee (02:51):
I would love to be a travel writer. And he was kid start a blog and that's how it happened. And so we just started a blog and it was about nothing. It was just about crap that was happening in my life. And then one day, tourism Queensland wrote a blog post about up and coming travel bloggers and I was on it and I was like, well travel. Oh
Danielle Lewis (03:13):
My God, that's so good.
Phoebe Lee (03:16):
It's so funny. And do you know what's funny? I told this story once, a guy asked me this same question. I told him this exact same story and he was like, I was the guy that wrote the article.
Danielle Lewis (03:26):
No way.
Phoebe Lee (03:28):
I was like, you changed my life, man. It was such a
Danielle Lewis (03:31):
Wow. I mean, I think that's so cool because I love that your husband, Matt said, if you could be anything, what would you be? Why don't they ask you that question? You kind of said you went through school, didn't really know what you wanted to do, and on reflection, maybe it was confidence, maybe it wasn't really understanding what your values were in life yet. And then somebody actually asked you, what's that thing that lights you up?
Phoebe Lee (04:02):
What do you want to do? And take limiting beliefs you have about yourself or the world or anything away. Just honestly, if you could do anything, anything, what would you do? It's so freeing, and I think also, I know a lot of people can relate to this too, is when you go through a schooling system, you go through uni, all this kind of stuff. And I came out of it feeling so dumb. I felt like I was a very stupid person. I wasn't intelligent or any of this. And it's because I'm just not a good book learner. I'm dumb. I realize that now I'm a very smart person, very capable in business, but I'm not great at learning when somebody just tells me,
Danielle Lewis (04:38):
Someone gives you a textbook and says, figure it out,
Phoebe Lee (04:41):
Chapter 10, chapters 10 through 20, we're having an exam, figure it out and here's that thing and know it now and then do the thing. And I'm like, I don't get it. I need a practical application. So I think being able to find my own way in my business and start my own business and find a way of living and being creative that actually works with me as a human and how I learn and how I experience things has been life-changing, been huge.
Danielle Lewis (05:07):
That's incredible. And so starting out as, okay, I'm just going to start a blog and write about my life and then okay, travel. It is amazing. How did you go from being a travel writer or a blogger to now being a business owner? What was that path like for you?
Phoebe Lee (05:25):
It was torturous and even involved a lot of saving money. Honestly. It's been really hard. I feel like I see these people kind of blow up really quick and big and they earn a lot of money and stuff like that. That's not been our path. It's been very difficult and hey, it's been our path. It's been awesome. Blueberry Box has kind of started to grow just the website and I had my job at the government and I was working full time and doing it on the side, but things that the government just got worse and worse and worse. It was a toxic workplace. I was miserable. And at the time was like, why is this happening to me? And that happened for me.
Danielle Lewis (06:02):
Yeah, exactly.
Phoebe Lee (06:03):
Change. And so I left my job. I had this amazing boss who supported me. He was like, take your long service leader, half pay, blah, blah, blah. And so I could take that transition time to work on the business and grow it. And I was like, this makes me so happy. So I quit my job, Matt quit his, we had no money, we saved a ton of money and we just scrimped out that savings for years. As you know, it takes a small business a long time to actually start to make it. And we just hung in there. We cut back our life. We had no debt. We were very smart with money. We lived within our means and it was worth it. It was awesome.
Danielle Lewis (06:41):
Oh wow.
Phoebe Lee (06:42):
And here we are now, and I'll be really honest, it's still not always easy. Business is hard and you get thrown a lot of challenges and sometimes you earn a great deal of money in a month and sometimes you earn none. And you have to learn to work through that flow and you have to stay motivated and inspired and it's a lot, but it's really rewarding too.
Danielle Lewis (07:04):
And it sounds like you've done a lot of, even just thinking about your comment where you said the government job was getting worse and worse and worse and you're like, why is this happening to me? And now going, okay, now I realize it was happening for me, it sounds like you might've done a bit of mindset work and personal growth work, which I feel like is so important as business owners. I don't think we can disconnect ourselves from our business. And I feel like the attitude that we have in life oftentimes impacts our business. Have you done any work around that? Have you had to think about things differently? I'd love to get in your brain.
Phoebe Lee (07:42):
Oh, it was so much. It's not even funny. So
Danielle Lewis (07:45):
Awesome.
Phoebe Lee (07:46):
I started with no very low and no belief that one, I deserved it and two, I could do it.
(07:54):
And so I started working with an intuitive life coach. Her name's Helen Jacobs. She runs something called The Little Sage. Yeah, I found her through her sister. Sister and I are really good friends. And she said, you have to connect with Helen. She's an intuitive life coach. She's amazing. And she gave me the hard facts of life and she kind of gave me all this stuff to work on. And it was a bit of tough love, but also some really great insight about myself. And you just got to start working on yourself. So all of that played out on the blog and it was just a good couple of years of working on myself. I'm still working myself now.
Danielle Lewis (08:30):
I don't think the work ever ends, does it?
Phoebe Lee (08:34):
Hey, a lot of therapy. You got to go to therapy, you got to talk about people. You
Danielle Lewis (08:38):
Do
Phoebe Lee (08:39):
Own business, you got to reach out for help. So it's been a lot of that. A lot of that for sure. And it has been the best thing I've ever done for myself, and it's had such a positive impact on my business to be able to finally trust myself if an opportunity comes my way. And I think that's a really good thing, even though maybe nobody else agrees, I can see the value in that and vice versa. Maybe somebody will go, there's money in that. And I'll be like, but it doesn't feel right. We shouldn't do it. So really, really played out out. Well,
Danielle Lewis (09:11):
That's incredible. And so what does Little Gray Box look like today? So if you could talk about what your business scope is today.
Phoebe Lee (09:21):
What's really interesting is it started as a blog and now I would kind of describe it as almost like a small content creation agency. And this is not something Matt and I planned when we met each other. He was a graphic designer. I was just an auditor. Love
Danielle Lewis (09:40):
It, love it.
Phoebe Lee (09:42):
Weird combination of people. But now I can write, so I can offer copywriting skills. I can write from my website or theirs. I present for our YouTube channel. I do a lot of public speaking and deliver workshops. Matt is an exceptional videographer and photographer, graphic designer. So when a client comes to us, they can be like, Hey, we actually want access to your audience. That's who we're trying to connect with. Can you make a YouTube video, write a blog, put up some videos on Instagram so that we can get access to that? Or they say, Hey, we love what you do. It's sick. Can you make some of that for us? And then they get, so it's crazy how it just evolved into this thing that we never knew it was possible.
Danielle Lewis (10:22):
No, and I love that as well because I guess back in the day, I mean we've gone through a number of names for this type of model. So I think when we met, it was a blogger and then we were calling them influencers and now we're creators. But I love that your mindset is actually no, we're a business. So liken it to a content creation agency and the reach and that audience is perhaps secondary in some cases where your talent as a content creator is at the forefront in some cases.
Phoebe Lee (10:58):
Yeah, absolutely. It's always interesting to see what the client wants and what they kind of come to us for it. It's absolutely a business, and I think it's important to value yourself. And you and Tegan definitely taught me Aunt Danielle about value and just like, Hey, stand up for yourself. You deserve it. You deserve to see yourself as a business and most small businesses are going to fail. So the fact we made it to this point is huge.
Danielle Lewis (11:24):
Oh my God. And you're spot on. It's not easy, I think ever spoiler for everyone out there. There are good days and bad days, but the stress doesn't end. But I love that. I love that it it's a process of unfolding different products and services, understanding your self-worth really understanding even as the market changes as well. I think the biggest thing for us when we saw people like you was how much value you could add to a brand. I always say that to brands. I'm like, your thing is the product and service you have, and you're not that great at creating content to all marketing. So find people that are awesome at it. And so that's where I think creators come in now. It's unreal.
Phoebe Lee (12:15):
Absolutely. Yeah, it's a pretty cool thing to be a part of too.
Danielle Lewis (12:19):
Yeah, definitely. How do you think that it's evolved over the years? I mean, I'm sure you are, whilst you've been mostly focused on your business growth as you've looked at the influencer slash creator ecosystem, do you think things have changed over the last couple of years? So has client engagement changed over the last couple of years
Phoebe Lee (12:40):
Significantly? Matt and I were just talking about this recently, and it's changed in some ways for the better. In some ways for the worse. I'll be very blunt because I'm in a bit of a mood this week.
Danielle Lewis (12:52):
Do it, do it.
Phoebe Lee (12:54):
And I think a lot of creators, if you're listening to this and you're a creator, you are going to get it. I think that a lot of brands have become a bit more, let's not say a lot of brands, some brands have become more dismissive of value in content creators. And I don't know if that's because they've had bad experiences or because there are so many content creators now that they feel they can be that way. We have some amazing clients, but sometimes you have an interaction with somebody where they do treat you badly. They want to pay you number one upfront. We don't want to pay you, but we do want you to work for free. And what's annoying is that nobody else in that situation is showing up to work for free that day.
Danielle Lewis (13:32):
Exactly. Are you as the employee of your company working for free? What
Phoebe Lee (13:37):
Even they say, we need you to pay for this, this, and this, and we're not going to pay you. So now you want me to pay to do my job, pay you the privilege of doing my job. So I just find that it does feel that maybe the saturation that has occurred, so many content creators on so many different platforms has given brands a bit more power to feel a bit more, I don't know, entitled over us or just make and create relationships that aren't the healthiest for creators in other ways. We've seen some incredible brands just really get it come to you with a really well thought out brief, a good budget. They know why they want to work with you, what you can do for them and what they want to see out of you. And it just knocks down to the park. But it has definitely been interesting watching it grow and change from when I first started and it was like the blogs were the big thing and now it's the short video content is red hot. And seeing that people take it so seriously and you can be a content creator and have it seen as a career now, it's been a big jump.
Danielle Lewis (14:44):
And I love too that, I mean, I think we talked about potentially the brands, some valuing it, some not valuing it, but I also wonder if there's an element of what they can get away with. I know you mentioned self-worth and what you will and won't work on and what you will and won't charge. And I wonder if there's been a few platforms out there and agencies who've gone down the contra path and those types of things and people just starting out kind of go, oh, well, that's what it's like. I get a free product, I do the work. And over time people have done more and more and more for less and less and less, which I think kind of sucks.
Phoebe Lee (15:26):
Yeah, absolutely. It's so tough when you start out. It's almost, yeah, definitely feels like that's what you have to do. It has to be. And you feel like you don't have anything to offer because you don't have an established audience yet, but you still do have something to offer a
Danielle Lewis (15:44):
Thousand percent.
Phoebe Lee (15:45):
Yeah, these contra arrangements are coming through for us every single day, and we're just at a point where we just have to say, look, I have no disrespect to your brand whatsoever, but we're not at this stage, especially after the few years, I mean last few years we work in the travel space.
Danielle Lewis (15:59):
Oh my god, of course. Oh my God, that conversation.
Phoebe Lee (16:04):
So we are not in a financial position to keep working for people for free. We just have to.
Danielle Lewis (16:10):
And you shouldn't have to.
Phoebe Lee (16:12):
Shouldn't have to. I totally agree. It's just so hard sometimes to get brands to see your value.
Danielle Lewis (16:19):
Yeah, no, it's really, it is really interesting. I mean, look, so talk to me about the last couple of years. Was that just a shit show?
Phoebe Lee (16:33):
Oh my god. We were in Thailand, we were working with tourism in Thailand are incredible. They're amazing to work with. And they sent us over to Simon. They're like, Hey, this is like, we did everything go real bad. We must have been February, March, maybe it was February, March, 2020. And they were like, Hey, just shoot over to Thailand, film some content, let everyone know everything's cool and Thailand's open for business. And we were like, ye man, because it is and everything's going to be fine. So we went over there, we had the best time and we were on the flight home and Australia was like, we're closing the borders and you have to get in. And we made it by that day. We were like, oh
Danielle Lewis (17:07):
Crap.
Phoebe Lee (17:08):
I know. It was awesome. And then that's it in Australia ever since. But look, it's been really tough, but it's also been really good in some ways. It's given us a chance to reassess our content and the things we do and we're trying to squeeze too much into our YouTube videos because we were go, go, go. So now we're able to have a bit more space to slow things down. We're both older and wiser, more strategic approach to things. And it gave us some downtime. I mean, we were traveling nonstop and it is awesome. It sounds awesome, it's the best, but when you're doing those long haul flights all the time, you start to get really fatigued and it does take a toll on your mental health. So it's been nice to have some time to work on that.
Danielle Lewis (17:57):
And I think the thing people don't realize as well is you're trying to fit in work around travel as well. So you're working out of hotel rooms on planes in cafes, and it's without a routine, it can get really difficult.
Phoebe Lee (18:11):
Absolutely. And we do get the odd sneaky comment from people who'll say, oh, it's always the same way. They say the same way. They go, oh, it must be nice to go on holidays for a living. It's not it at all. When we're on those trips, they call them, for anybody listening who doesn't know, they call them for mills. Media familiarization trips. So I'm on a for mill, you work nonstop because the client has you there and they wouldn't make the most of you being there. So it'll up and be like, get up at 5:00 AM you're going to be out the door by six, and then we'll be back at the hotel at 10 30 or 11 o'clock at night, and you're shooting all day, you're on your feet shooting, you're meeting people, you're trying to be nice. You just
Danielle Lewis (18:49):
Smile all day.
Phoebe Lee (18:51):
Shing food in your face constantly because every restaurant wants to eat seven plates of food because it's so proud and it's awesome. Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely awesome. I wouldn't change it for the world, but it's tiring. It's work.
Danielle Lewis (19:05):
It's work. Yeah.
Phoebe Lee (19:07):
I feel bad saying it actually. It's work.
Danielle Lewis (19:10):
Yeah, no, but I think people forget that, right? I don't think that there is a job on the planet, no matter how glamorous it looks that people aren't working their asses off.
Phoebe Lee (19:22):
Absolutely.
Danielle Lewis (19:23):
And I think too, sometimes those comments come from a place of, I think jealousy. It's like I feel like there are a lot of people aren't happy in their career paths or with their business and that's their kind of little outlet is to be trolls on the internet, which kind of sucks.
Phoebe Lee (19:40):
Yeah. I've been in that place where you're miserable with your job and you see somebody else and they're doing something awesome and it stirs something in you and I totally get it. But I think the key is letting it stir that jealousy within you and then going, okay, why do I feel that way and doing something about it. You just have to start. No one's saying you have to. And this is something it took me a while to understand at the beginning. No one's saying you have to change your life overnight. Just one thing today, one thing that helps you move closer to where you want to be. That's all you have to do.
Danielle Lewis (20:14):
Yeah. There's this great Mel Robbins thing where she talks about jealousy and how often we feel like jealousy is a negative emotion, but she's like, no, it's amazing because it's a window into what you want. So many times it's difficult for us to find out what we value and when we see it now that other people, we get jealous, but it's like, ah, that's telling me something. Maybe I want that thing for myself.
Phoebe Lee (20:40):
Absolutely. Yeah, totally agree. It's such a powerful thing.
Danielle Lewis (20:44):
So as stressful as things are, then how do you look after yourself? How do you, I guess like we said this, I think before we were recording, you can't separate yourself from the business sometimes, but how do you prioritize yourself and your wellbeing in business?
Phoebe Lee (21:04):
Timely, timely question. Matt and I have just come back from taking, I think we took about two to three weeks off, which when you travel for a living, two to three weeks off means staying home. And
Danielle Lewis (21:20):
That's awesome.
Phoebe Lee (21:21):
And it was funny because Danielle and I both know Fred and an from, they're amazing, just fantastic people and really great YouTube mentors of sorts. And I've kind of been Fred and saying, I'm feeling really burnt out. I'm just a overwhelmed and this take time off. I was, no, no, I can't. This is my business it based around me. I'm in front of the camera. I do this. What the things I do. If I don't do the things my business will land. Everyone
Danielle Lewis (21:49):
Does them.
Phoebe Lee (21:51):
And he was like, no, no, no. You can take time off. Everything will be fine. So I was so scared. I wrote on our YouTube community tab and I was like, Hey, I love you guys. I'm so sorry. I'm going to take time off. And they were all like, you deserve it. Enjoy
Danielle Lewis (22:05):
Your
Phoebe Lee (22:06):
For you.
Danielle Lewis (22:07):
Oh my God, I love that.
Phoebe Lee (22:09):
Great. And we took the time off even while we were on the break, a couple of our followers sent us emails and they were like, Hey, just checking in. Hope you're having a great time on your break. Can't wait for you to come back.
Danielle Lewis (22:18):
Oh my God, that's amazing. It's
Phoebe Lee (22:21):
So sweet. It's just amazing. And then we've come back this week and we're both just feeling so much more refreshed.
Danielle Lewis (22:28):
You look very zen. I'm not going to lie. Yeah,
Phoebe Lee (22:31):
I'm feeling pretty refreshed. You chilled out this week. But also that's a big thing. We might only do that once a year, but we're going to try and take a break twice a year now, but day to day you've got to take care of yourself day to day. And I think it looks different for everyone. For me, one really important thing is my daily routine. I like to wake up at about 5 45 and then my mom and I go to the park and we walk the dogs together and I do a little workout in the park. We come home, we all have coffee together or my family coffee together and then we all go our separate workday ways. And I think just having those little routines that time for yourself especially to get outdoors in the nature, it's so good. Your mental health.
Danielle Lewis (23:16):
Yeah, there is something, especially if you're a person that works from home, which is me as well. I look at the outdoors through my window and then I'm like, oh, two days have passed and I haven't left the house. I need to get out and do something. Be in the fresh air and in nature
Phoebe Lee (23:33):
It hits you. When was the last time I left the house?
Danielle Lewis (23:37):
Totally. It's so easy to get stuck in that. I'll just do one more thing on the to-do list one more thing on the to-do list and then I'll do something. It's like, no, I'm actually really important and if I don't look after myself, the to-do list isn't going to happen.
Phoebe Lee (23:51):
Yeah. And I think another, this is such another simple thing I tried to do is just make sure I eat enough good food during the day because I get lazy and I'm like, just realize I'm just eating bei on beige a crut with honey and then I'll have 10 bites with hummus and then I'll have toast tea. So I'm like, you need to make sure you're eating enough vegetables and good grains and all kinds of stuff to keep you going so that you don't burn out. It's all the simple things you're meant to do and you don't do them.
Danielle Lewis (24:20):
Oh, I know. It is just so easy to not do things, I think.
Phoebe Lee (24:24):
Yeah, because you feel bad walking away from your desk and taking the time to eat or you're so busy you just forget to do the thing.
Danielle Lewis (24:33):
But also so weird. If you consider a nine to five, if you had a corporate job, there's morning tea, there's lunch, there's afternoon tea, you'd clock off at whenever. I don't know why. As business owners we're like, I must work 17,000 hours per day.
Phoebe Lee (24:51):
It's crazy, right? So weird. I thought, oh, I'll be at home. When I first quit my job, I was like, I'd be at home. I'm snacking lots, lots of times to eat all this food and stuff like that. You don't. You just don't. For some reason, I know it's the passion, it's a little bit of guilt or whatever, but you got to make time to take care of yourself.
Danielle Lewis (25:10):
Yeah. You will feel it otherwise. So do you have any advice for people who are just getting started in terms of growing the business? So obviously over time there's probably different ways you've approached getting new customers. Has there been any kind of magical moments for you in terms of growing the business?
Phoebe Lee (25:34):
Do you mean? Well,
Danielle Lewis (25:35):
Do you mean in, has your strategy changed? Is it always people contacting you or do you pitch other people? Has there been kind of any approach to growing customers
Phoebe Lee (25:47):
In a sense? I think a lot of what we do depends on audience engagement.
Danielle Lewis (25:52):
Yeah, okay.
Phoebe Lee (25:54):
Audience engagement is about value right at the heart of it. So for us it's always a value based mindset. Something you'll hear Fred and Anne at change talk about a lot, and it's something I didn't realize I was doing until they put it into words. We're always thinking about,
Danielle Lewis (26:10):
I love this so much. I'm literally getting a post note of writing it down. Value based mindset. Sorry, keep going. This is good.
Phoebe Lee (26:16):
I ripped that off Fred. So you have to quote him, not me.
Danielle Lewis (26:20):
Okay, I will.
Phoebe Lee (26:21):
Yeah. He put into words what we were doing and it's about us always thinking about the person watching our videos and thinking how can we help them? If they're going overseas, they're going to South Africa, what do they need to know? What did I not know before I went that I wish I had? What is something I really need to tell them? What do they need to see? What do they need to experience? We're always trying to focus on giving to them. And if we can give to them and have that value-based mindset with them, that will increase our audience and that will draw the clients to us. They cannot ignore us if we hold a huge percentage of their target market in their hands. And by being so kind of giving, that seems really arrogant, it's not. But by being giving and generous and thoughtful with our audience, they trust and they know we need to make money. So if we do a sponsored brand deal, let me say this video is sponsored by someone, they totally get it and they don't mind because they're getting something awesome too. So I think it just creates a really healthy kind of relationship with our audience and clients, but more importantly, it makes it sustainable for you as the business owner because you're doing something for someone else.
Danielle Lewis (27:34):
I love that so much because I think it applies to every business everywhere. So totally. It doesn't matter what you are putting out, whether it's a product, whether it's a service, whether it's an Instagram post, thinking about the person that's consuming that and making sure that it aligns to, well, whatever it is you do, but their values, that's awesome. I love that.
Phoebe Lee (27:59):
It's an easy thing to do.
Danielle Lewis (28:01):
No, and that's it. I think it comes from as well, really understanding your audience and what they want. And I assume that's been a bit of a process as well.
Phoebe Lee (28:11):
Yeah, definitely. And it's taken us some time to work out who our audience is and what they like and what they don't like and try to tune into it and fine tune our content. We're still learning, we're making some changes to videos right now, the way we present them to connect with people better and help them more. And yeah, it's really rewarding. Once you kind of click into who your audience is, I dunno, it makes you feel like you know them better and you can give them more.
Danielle Lewis (28:38):
I'm blown away that your followers contact you and wish you well. That is next level. I love it.
Phoebe Lee (28:45):
The cutest. They're so lovely and they're so understanding. The last two years have been awful and there have been so many times we haven't had any content to put out. We just haven't been able to go anywhere to film anything. And I said, I'm so sorry there's no video this week. And they're like, that's totally fine. You've got this. We'll support you no matter what. It's amazing.
Danielle Lewis (29:08):
Yeah, that's incredible. That is incredible. So we talked about as well, there being a crap ton of creators now. Do you think that there's still opportunity to start now if somebody wanted to be a content creator and create a business out of something that they're passionate about, do you think that there's still opportunity?
Phoebe Lee (29:32):
Yeah, absolutely. Why would there possibly not be? I think that success is just, it's not a finite resource. Infinite. There's the enough for everybody in the world and there are so many humans on this planet. I think the key is choosing. We hear this a lot, choose your niche, choose your niche, choose the niche. That is very, very true. And the more specific you can be about it, the better it's going to go for you, especially now with so many people out there. But choose something you're passionate in, passionate about, and just start. Just start is the best advice I can give you and be honest and authentic. That seems to be what people value most nowadays, especially with the rise of TikTok. It felt like with Instagram we saw this heavily curated life was what everybody wanted to see and engage with, and you started to feel a shift away from that. Over time we started to get frustrated with these perfect influences and whatever, and now it's these TikTok creators and we get to glimpse into somebody else's life and we see so much of ourself in it and we go, I thought that I do that. I love to wear a messy on in my bra. That's me.
Danielle Lewis (30:39):
Yeah. Triggered. Oh God, right.
Phoebe Lee (30:45):
Yourself. Be authentic and just start, there's room for everybody.
Danielle Lewis (30:50):
Well, I cannot think of a better place to end the podcast there. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your insights on Spark tv. I know that there's a lot of, oh my God, anytime you're welcome back. But yeah, I know there's a lot of female founders dialing in who would've gotten a lot of value. As I said, I literally posted noted that value-based mindset. That's incredible. So thank you so much for spending your time with us today.
Phoebe Lee (31:17):
Of course.
