#awinewith Peta Ellis
MEET Peta
Peta is the Founder of EverydayEntrepreneur365.
Find Peta here:
Everyday Entrepreneur 365 website and Instagram @peta_ellis.
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:00:08):
Okay, amazing. So well look, let's start out. Welcome today, Peter Ellis. Thank you for spending your time with us. Let's start out by, so we met like a decade ago. We did. We did. And I've been talking to you about business for the last decade, and I know you are on both sides. You coach founders and work with founders, but you also run your own business. So maybe let's set up today by taking everyone through your business career journey, all of the things you've done and where you are today and what you're currently working on.
Peta Ellis (00:00:46):
Okay. Where will I start? So at the moment, I'm the founder of Everyday Entrepreneur 3 6 5. So I run programs. Essentially I am an education company, so I provide content around entrepreneurship, whether it's starting or growing businesses for founders and entrepreneurs, or I like to call them entrepreneurs in waiting. So midlife founders is my sweet spot. So people who are making career change or career pivots looking at utilizing their accumulated life skills and putting them into a business or a new venture, they often start off as a side hustle and sort of develop further along into a commercially viable business. So that's what I'm doing currently. But the background of history is I personally have always been in business since my early twenties. It is just something that I always did. I had an idea and I started it. The terminology around being a founder or having a startup wasn't really common back then. It was just you had a business, you started a business, you had an idea, started a business. There wasn't a lot of help in terms of, well, let's face it, the internet. The internet didn't exist. So we didn't have Google, we didn't have YouTube
Danielle Lewis (00:01:56):
Aging ourselves.
Peta Ellis (00:01:58):
I know. So very traditional ways of starting. There was a lot of involvement in terms of newspapers and consultants and business advisory. There are a lot of government organizations we sort of got information from. So I started in business. I had always had a background in hospitality. My family had some restaurants and cafes as well. So I had experience of being in business. But where my own business started was usually based around solving a problem. One of my first businesses was consulting in the hospitality industry to people who were looking to buy cafes who didn't have the experience because I had personally been through that process or my family had of people buying our business and it falling over within a month because they didn't know what they were doing or they had actual what now we would call it founder a burnout, not really knowing what they were up against, spending all their superannuation on this business and not really knowing how to run the business.
(00:02:55):
It just seemed like a nice idea to have. So I ended up doing some consultancy around how to run a business and at the time it was a cafe and where to find suppliers and staff and HR and customer service. And it was, now when I look back on it, it was basic business fundamentals, but I applied it in hospitality field because that's what I was in, and that stemmed later down the track to having a hospitality staffing agency. So I did see a gap in businesses being understaffed and not knowing what to do on those days where that people called in sick. So I was working in the hospitality industry as a temp and a function staff person. So I was registered with lots of agencies. So I just thought I would gather some people that I knew were great waiters and waitresses and event function staff and offer them as obviously members of a team.
(00:03:52):
So we became one of the leading hospitality staffing providers to event and function staff. And back then it involved a lot of manual behind the scenes admin in the operations side of things. There was no internet. I couldn't get staff to check in online to register their attendance at events that were happening remotely. So was no software platform, it was no software platform. It was all paper-based. So on a Saturday night, it involved me visiting 10 to 15 different functions to make sure everything was going okay. That staff turned up all right, making sure we got the feedback from the, so it wasn't a scalable model, which we got to a point where I couldn't physically, I didn't have the skills. I was very young. I didn't have any mentors or advisors in business that maybe could have provided some extra insight guidance at that point in time.
(00:04:43):
I did hire a business advisor, paid a lot of money for a booklet of advice, which didn't really help me at the time. So I ended up going into training. That's still happening even in the day of the internet, I think so, I think so. But there was no way of getting any peer reviews or anything. So he just sort of looked up, I feel old saying it, the yellow pages and finding somebody who might be able to help you, but he did actually give me some very clever advice, which I chose not to take. But in hindsight now, I think it was actually good advice and that was what I was doing in the staff and service related business wasn't scalable, whereas if I transferred the skills that I had into learning and education, if I had to create a course content and courses that was scalable.
(00:05:30):
So I did that. I created some hospitality service programs, so entry level waiters and waitresses and baristas. So I ran some Brisbane's very first barista training, and I partnered with Philip debell actually from Bella Coffee back then because he was brand new on the scene and roasting his own coffee in a warehouse in the valley, and I just happened to rent some space and warehouse space near where he was. So I actually had borrowed my coffee machines and he provided the coffee beans and I provided the training and that was a scalable model, which gave me access to other hospitality business owners. But through that process, again, I just didn't have the capacity to know how to scale properly or the knowledge or the expertise to run the backend of that. I was great at delivery and on the ground in doing the teaching, but I really needed, and I probably needed a co-founder, a business partner to keep up with the business development.
(00:06:34):
So I decided at the point in time, because I'd gone and done the traditional thing of rent, a big space three year lease at 22 years of age and completely giving PTs D here about leases over committed, totally overcommitted myself, but if you had asked me, it was so possible and it was going to be amazing, so amazing. I never not believe I could see my name on the building now, it was going to be the next Serena Rus if you had have just asked me. But look, the bills came in and I couldn't make it work. So with the tail between my legs, I had to go back and get a job and do that horrible process of going back to work for somebody, which I found a huge lot of shame and embarrassment. I just couldn't make it work and I didn't know how to make it work, and the financial burden was too much.
(00:07:23):
So I did go and get a job, but luckily for me, I met the next opportunity through that job and that was, I worked for a really amazing chef who was operating three different venues at the time. So I went in as a function and event coordinator, but what I learned was that chef was amazing at generating media attention, and I was fascinated by how we had every newspaper writing about us all the time. So I learned the skill of PR and marketing through his interactions with the media, and I just thought, wow, if more people knew how to do this, their business could get much more exposure because back then we had to really rely on the media printing about writing about June and the reviews, reviews, and especially restaurant reviews.
(00:08:12):
They had the responsibility of making or breaking restaurants at that time. If you got a bad review, it was pretty dire, and if you got a great review, it was amazing. So we didn't have the user generated reviews that we have now. So I learned the ropes of how to be an amazing PR person and harness that power of media and so much so that I thought, if I can do this for one venue, well, we had three at the time. I could definitely free contract out to other venues. So that's what I did. I started a side business where I actually provided PR and marketing services for other hospitality venues, and I grew that into a really great agency that I ran for seven years, and I did that. We had an amazing team of PR people and we had some really big contracts and it was great, but it's still a business that was very heavily reliant on service delivery, so there was no tech involved.
(00:09:06):
It was individuals creating the work and putting out output for basically consultancy fees. So you can grow a business, but you also need the resources to grow with that. But I ended up winding that down in 2007 when I had my first child because I thought what I didn't envisage as a business owner is when I stepped out of the business, there was nobody doing sales. There was nobody, no BDMI was the main person. I had amazing staff for an amazing team who were delivering and meeting the client's needs in client work, but I did not have any idea how much it was reliant on me being at there, just being at things and being seen and engaging to get those new clients. We didn't really have a sales strategy, we had no sales strategy. It was all word of mouth and it was all through just being seen or having their referral warm leads and contacts.
(00:10:02):
And it was really noticeable when I stepped away that we just didn't have any new opportunities coming in and I was not in the place. I was not in a place to step back in and sell because I was in the love bubble family mode of let's just take everything a little bit slower and is any of all of that business stuff very important? So I scaled it back and wound down the team and just took on enough clients that I could manage myself and I ended up launching, I did launch something online and it was called City Publicity, which was an online pr. What I envisaged was less client facing work, but more online so people could upload documents and have it edited and we would submit to online. There was a few online platforms, media platforms then where you could distribute press releases and generate articles and then produce PR reports.
(00:10:55):
But I didn't have the technology behind me. It was still very much an MVP where I was doing the work. However, the website appeared to be that there was a system behind it, but it was the uptake. People did not want it. They didn't want it. I thought it was, and now it's a huge thing, but they weren't ready for online. They weren't ready to not be speaking to a human. They wanted their handheld, they wanted the meetings, they wanted the catch ups in the cafes, they wanted the in-person physical product launches. They didn't want an online platform. So it was too early. It was just too early. But look, it gave me something to do and I always met amazing clients, amazing products and brands and lots of those relationships that I still have today, always through those years in doing public relations. But look, it led to River City Labs because I got bored of selling other people's things, and that's what you're doing when you're doing is you're selling everyone else's business as an entrepreneur, you get itchy feet and you're like, oh my gosh, all these people are doing things and what am I doing?
(00:12:03):
I thought I would go and change. I had a friend who was working out of Riverside Labs, it had just opened and he invited me to come to an event that they had, and I went up to this dingy little space serving beer out of plastic buckets and pizza, and I heard that they were looking for an event organizer, a marketing slash event organizer. I thought I could do that or
Danielle Lewis (00:12:31):
Around
Peta Ellis (00:12:33):
With I could do that. Everything
Danielle Lewis (00:12:34):
Is low. Yeah,
Peta Ellis (00:12:35):
Yeah. This is like I could do that. Yeah. So I did that, but then once I started getting anything with me, once I started, I was sort of all in and I was so surprised at the stuff that people were building in there. I had no idea about tech, tech company, startups, no idea games, game development. So what about these people?
Danielle Lewis (00:13:01):
River City Labs was really where it all started in Brisbane. I remember going to,
Peta Ellis (00:13:06):
Yeah, look, there was other activities and there were other spaces, but it's absolutely where the grassroots ground level stuff happened. And I thought, do these people know? Do they know how good they are all about? Let's tell the story. Surely, surely. But they weren't interested. They were building cool things, but there was a gap. So I knew that if I sort of introduced what I knew about business and networking and events and brought the business world in to meet the tech world through events and those collaboration events, which is what I did consistently in the early days and have the meetup groups and start up weekends, that the rest would evolve. And it did evolve. But I got super involved and very excited and then started doing my own research and what was happening in America and realized that this was a huge industry. It wasn't just something small, and then it was also really obvious how far behind we were. So then I became a competition. It's like, how much more can we do? How many more things can we do and what else can we introduce? Who else can we get to speak? And yeah, I really, really, really loved my time there and the opportunity to dive into something brand new. I learned so much. There was so much that I did not know when I started there, but I did have some really amazing people around me who shared their knowledge, which was great.
(00:14:35):
So yeah, that was the start. That sort of took me to my mid thirties and I had the opportunity to grow with River City Labs, which was amazing. I had an amazing mentor. So Steve was obviously my boss, but we had a great working relationship where he let me do what I do and I had the guidance of him, I suppose the trust and the backing to be able to do that, which is such a unique thing to find when you go looking for it, it's very hard to find, but sometimes it happens. And the combination was great, but then we had an opportunity to grow it even further and move and expand and move into what was known as the precinct. That's when the sort of government started to get more involved and back activities like this, and then it came to a point where Steve wanted to exit and wanted to put that for sales. Then went through the acquisition process, which was a learning curve in itself, a brand new experience for me to have all of these other organizations looking at your work. And it was a huge learning curve. It wasn't a fun time. I didn't love it. I didn't love it. That's
Danielle Lewis (00:15:51):
Very an interesting comment, being able to almost be on the inside a part of the process and learn the process to kind of know whether that's something that you want for your own business.
Peta Ellis (00:16:02):
Yeah, look, I believe in the process, so I do think that if businesses want to grow, you can either have an exit or a financial event, whether it's you exit and you sell or you get acquired or you can obviously merge. So the acquisition process, it's an interesting one and I've seen it happen and I've guided lots of other startup founders through the process as well. I think the biggest lessons for me was that it was a reminder that when you're not the owner, you don't have the last say. So I learned a lot of personal lessons there for me, and it was just a reminder that if you want to be an employee, there's a line which is drawn and you don't, ultimately, you can't really determine what happens next and you have to be okay with that, which I wasn't really very okay with that. So it was a reminder, Peter, you need to go and do your own thing again, or you're okay with this process and you sort of move because when decisions are made for you, it can determine your next move or how you choose to react to that. And it was just that sort of reminder that I don't really love those opportunities of the choice of what happens to me next or my role being in somebody else's hands. I really like to, all right. I really like to steer
Danielle Lewis (00:17:20):
It own destiny over your own destiny. Yeah, that's interesting though. I just like the self-awareness of being in that situation and having that moment of, okay, I'm going through this, not loving it, so what does this mean for me and how can I take steps to change that so that I don't end up in the same position again?
Peta Ellis (00:17:41):
Yeah, look, it was hard as well because you are running a business, so you still have to make sure you are doing the events, maintaining customer base, have the dollars coming in. We are a membership based organization and we had a lot of deliverables obviously to meet our bottom line. We doubled in size going into a larger venue, so we had a lot of pressure to maintain that level of membership and events and we had a lot of corporate partnerships and sponsorships and a lot of deliverables to achieve. Then in addition to that, when you go through something like a sale or an acquisition or it's the same as when founders are looking to raise capital, you have two jobs to do. You have your actual job of running the business and then you have the other job of meeting all of the needs and requirements of the people asking for your documents and they're in your data room and you need to continuously supply information that you might need to dig through emails four years ago to find something because you learn very quickly if your systems and processes are in order and if your back of house is good or not good.
(00:18:49):
And ours was a mix match of years of systems that we'd started sometimes stops and some data was here and some data was there and we've got half an EMR list over there and we've got some membership data here and some of it's over there. And you learn very quickly what you should have done from day one because when there's other people looking in your business, it's very exposing. It's very exposing, not that there's nothing to hide, it just highlights sometimes that where your gaps are. And for us it was a hundred percent administration and ops. We weren't strong there most of the time because we were so busy up the front delivering things. We didn't take the time to go back and make sure we documented everything as we went and made sure our data was up to date. Now I'm talking about membership data and stuff that is probably much easier to extract now with the amount of applications we have and the way we run businesses now in so many online platforms.
(00:19:50):
But we started with a membership base and an Excel spreadsheet. We introduced Xero halfway through and then we had some management software. So it was lots of different systems that were never really properly consolidated to maintain and track information. I mean, if I was to even go back and see when we first interacted with you, there probably wasn't one piece of data that told us a date that we met at this river pitch event and it happened on that time and this is the location. Whereas now with the way that businesses are run on so many platforms, it's much easier to locate those data points and track user behavior, which when you're selling as if you have insight into your customer's behavior where and how to sell to them because you are tracking and you're measuring that data all the time. So look, it highlighted a lot of things. It
Danielle Lewis (00:20:43):
Is interesting though because I think things do change over time. I mean, I know from a scrunch point of view, so we've been around for 10 years, so the amount of technology that we have gone through over that time, it changes. Oh totally. And you see this new shiny thing that's supposed to change your sales and marketing world and you try it and then you haven't migrated all of those people over. And so it still happens. I think even now that we have the most advanced technology because there's just new tools cropping up all of the time. So it is really take that time to step back and actually go through the process of getting everything in the one place.
Peta Ellis (00:21:23):
And we did at times do that or hire somebody to do just that. But again, you can hire someone in to do that and say, look, we want all of this data merged here and we want all of these random databases pulled into one. However, there's all the backstories and there's this connection to that connection and that person doesn't really fit in this box, but they were a member, but then they kind of weren't because they did this, but their account isn't up to date. Well, then there's a story why that person's membership was whatever. So there is that sort of level of historical data as well, which is held within the humans that are in the business and how that is transferred across to either new ownership or to the new business that it's going into. A lot of the time that is lost, and especially with an acquisition, I think it's important for the acquiring company to realize what are they acquiring?
(00:22:15):
Are they acquiring a business? Are they acquiring a database? Are they acquiring customers? Are they acquiring culture and relevance or are they acquiring the leadership and the people within the business? Because when you go through the acquisition process, if you are very clear on what you're purchasing, you want to make sure that those things are coming across with you because if it's people leadership or culture, that's not guaranteed to move. So what are you actually buying then if those key things that mean the most to that transaction don't eventually come across? It's a really good question, which I don't think a lot of people think about at the time.
Danielle Lewis (00:22:54):
Yeah, well, and I think that you bang on with the human element there is so, I mean the amount of technology that we have to solve problems today is phenomenal, but the things that are stored inside the human's brains, whether it's the sales person, the customer service
Peta Ellis (00:23:11):
Person, and the connections.
Danielle Lewis (00:23:12):
Yeah, exactly.
Peta Ellis (00:23:14):
And that's not being arrogant and saying it can't be recreated because it always can. Everybody is replaceable. That's what it comes down to. Everybody's replaceable. You can put new people in roles and they can absolutely take it into a new direction or do better. That's not what we're talking about it. What is the essence that that person maybe brings to the role or that team of people? What are the connections? Could you anticipate those companies or those sponsors or those partners may be working with you in the future if the culture changes, changes? So there's lots of things to consider in that process, and I don't believe you often know what they are until you're in it and it's happening or even after and you go, wow, I didn't really know what was happening there, but now I can see how that played out. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (00:24:02):
Yeah, absolutely. So now we make the leap from River City Labs to today.
Peta Ellis (00:24:10):
I left in, so we were acquired by the Australian Computer Society and I stayed on for 12 months after the acquisition, which allowed me the opportunity to expand the brand into three. So we went to Sydney and Melbourne. They already had a presence there in those states. So it was really taking the River City Labs brand into new states, which I did with Sydney. We didn't really get a chance with Melbourne. It was just at the start of the activation phase. But then I left not long after that. For me, there was not a cult. Their culture didn't align or the why we were doing didn't align for me. So it's best when you realize that with yourself to move on. So it was a great time for me to choose something that was more in alignment with what I like to do and the why I like to do it.
(00:24:58):
There was an opportunity to work with QUT, so Queensland University of Technology, and I had an opportunity to do that at the time with Aaron Beby and we were also running our own startup called Peak Persona, and we'd been doing that since the end of 2017. So we were running programs for founders and entrepreneurs, which enabled them and empowered them to grow and scale by managing their lifestyles, routines and habits. So we often took a lot of projects together because we worked really well together as co-founders. So we took on a contract with QUT to help create some programs, activate community and generate some events around entrepreneurship and create a micro community within the university. I love growing communities and I saw that as an opportunity and I love working with Rowena Barrett. So that's what I moved into at the time, it was still only a part-time contract.
(00:25:59):
It allowed us to work on our own business, which was persona and also still be present in the ecosystem with the community and activating new people into the ecosystem. So within the university you're dealing with students, staff and alumni and students of course are brand new to exiting school, stepping into the world of study. Some people are returning or midlife career pivots coming back to study. Then you've also got staff as well who are looking to maybe do something else with the skills that they have. So we created some programs which was all to do with activating and influencing and introducing people to the concept of entrepreneurship. Then through to what do you actually do with an idea? They're all extracurricular or co-curricular. So anybody who's studying anything could actually engage with these programs and they're free for students. So it's an amazing opportunity and always surprises me when students don't embrace these opportunities that are free to them and the resources. I'm literally
Danielle Lewis (00:26:59):
Sitting here wondering if I'm missed out on these opportunities
Peta Ellis (00:27:02):
When I was in No, and when you come from the commercial world or the business world and you see what students have access to, you're like, why aren't there more people doing this? It's just because they don't, first of all, they don't know. They don't understand what it means to be an entrepreneur and they don't really want to change what they're doing opposed to. So our aim was really to say, look, it doesn't mean you have to go and be an entrepreneur. However, there's a way of thinking and it's the entrepreneurial mindset, and you could utilize this in your future career. You could take this skillset toolkit and knowledge embedded into your own career. Maybe you could be an innovative person with inside a company. You can be an intrapreneur. You could understand the different techniques that you can use to problem solve within organizations.
(00:27:48):
So it doesn't always have to be to go and start a business. It's what skills can you use following these principles to embed into your future career. So that's what we did. We created a program and then delivered those programs, and I'm still delivering some of those programs now. So this is the third year that those programs have been in existence and the community has been seeded and activated with some community events, whether it's community coffee, pitch nights, startup matchup, where startups can come in and pitch for staff to students. So just a lot of those community activation events and embedding a safe place within the university for people to come and try find out information, get some help, ask a question without having to go outside of the parameter of the university. Now at the same time Covid happened. So all events stopped anyway.
Danielle Lewis (00:28:40):
Yeah, of course
Peta Ellis (00:28:41):
All events stopped, but we had a lot of experience with delivering online because our program for four years had only been online. We've never delivered in person for peak persona. We had only been delivering our power programs online from the very start. So we were so perfectly placed to help guide the uni on how to do that. So we just took what we had created for these programs for QT entrepreneurship and just flipped them to online, which was perfect, and it just was seamless and it just kept going and everybody engaged and it was great. But what we didn't get to do was our in-person, catchups. However, we did have virtual catch-up coffees and pitch nights, and in fact the pitch nights has remained online, so we never took it back to being on person. It still happens on the first Wednesday of every month. We do it online between six and 7:00 PM people dial in pitch. So there was a lot of things there that worked really well. It was a nice transition for me to, and look, I didn't go to uni, so this is, I am having my university experience in my forties as a person who's involved at the university opposed to studying there. So it was a bit of a win,
Danielle Lewis (00:29:50):
Having a very good university experience. I think you are one of the people that are getting the most out of it speaking that potentially aren't capitalizing on what's available.
Peta Ellis (00:30:00):
Yeah, exactly. And there's so much there. And look, I wouldn't have changed anything because I went and did other things in my early twenties, which gave me a lot more experience to do what I need to do. However, I do enjoy seeing what's available and seeing how it works because it makes me a better business person to understand how large organizations or institutions like this work for even engaging future staff to understand the mindset of students and sort of know what's being delivered in terms of content and staff and all sorts of things. So I've had a lot of experience and education on the inside and to know how to interact on the outside as an outside person. I used to rely on some key connections with the university to draw students out to come to our events. And now I know that it still happens on the inside. You still need your key influences on the inside to get students to go to anything. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (00:30:55):
Of course.
Peta Ellis (00:30:56):
Yeah. So it's really interesting. But having delivered those programs, I also took another contract which was entrepreneur in Residence at two different schools and one of them was my old school. So ips, which girls Grammar, they asked me to come and be entrepreneur in residence, which was helping guide their innovation strategy for the future of the school, whether it's education delivery, the direction they want to take, maybe it's platforms they might be using, generating a little bit of publicity and PR around how they are future proofing their business and engaging with the students and understanding what that looks like. So on the back of that, I did deliver some programs with the students and still do that. However, that's not my main reason for engagement there. What was born out of that opportunity was a parent program. So there was a lot of resistance for parents to understand why do our kids need to be learning entrepreneurship?
(00:31:55):
What is it all about? We really want 'em to take this traditional pathway. So I created the parent program as part of an activation and a parent education opportunity. So I thought if they understand how powerful it is to think this way, they wouldn't not want their kids to be a part of it. So let's show them first. So we introduced a parent program, we had a great uptake out of two cohorts in the last two years. And then I've also run other pilot programs with other schools just to make sure it wasn't because of my influence there or I already had a relationship. I wanted to see if other schools were interested in this as well. And it is true, there are some key pivot points in life transition phases when you a parent, and that's to do with how much time you have.
(00:32:43):
So obviously when you first get pregnant, you go on maternity leave and then you have a newborn, you change your career to sort of fit around this new lifestyle that you have. And then when your kids start school, your routine changes again. Then when they finish primary school, things change. They're in high school, they can get themselves to school. So often we tend to work longer hours at that time. If you're freed up a little bit with routine and then when your kids leave school, you're in another transition phase again because the motivation of why it is you working tends to change and the hours and opportunities and where you want to spend your time changes. So there's usually four key pivot points and transition points in parents' lives that they may consider changing their career direction. And entrepreneurship is a perfect partner in that to help them identify that, you know what?
(00:33:34):
I could actually utilize the skills that I've had in my corporate job, or I would love to learn a new skill. I'd love to be able to do something for myself or I'd love to turn this hobby I've been doing for however long into a commercial business. So it attracts a diverse range of participants. We also have people who have, obviously in Covid we had a lot of redundancies. So people who were laid off to do with, we had a lot of airline pilots who were looking to what else could they do with their life and career. So they were looking to upskill learn about what the trends are happening in the future of industries, what is evolving, what industry is looking for certain types of people. So the programs that I run as part of Everyday Entrepreneur are one part education on what entrepreneurship is, how do you take an idea and execute on it right through to the landscape of industries? So what industries are moving fast, what are transforming, what are dying out, just to provide that level of transparency And also opportunity is where could you take the skills that you have right now, whether they are having been running a family for however long or maybe you've moved from this industry to that industry.
(00:34:52):
Excuse me, what could you do with them? What industries are looking for that sort of stuff?
Danielle Lewis (00:34:57):
Well, I mean it's really interesting because I feel like what it's doing is showing what's possible. So I remember back to my own little entrepreneurship story and both of my parents worked in the same job for 30, 40, 50 years and fantastic. They have been my biggest supporters to date. I'm sure they still dunno what I do, but they are my biggest cheerleaders. But when I was looking into online business, no one I knew in my family, in my social group, anything had started a business, had run a business, had no idea that it was even possible. It was literally, I was working for Telstra at the time and I'd won this trip somewhere because I'm a salesperson and I brought the four hour work week book with me to read, oh, that's where
Peta Ellis (00:35:47):
Your journey started, the four hour work week.
Danielle Lewis (00:35:49):
So corny. But yes, I was on this deck chair in this little resort reading this book and I was like, what? This
Peta Ellis (00:35:59):
Is what I want.
Danielle Lewis (00:36:00):
I was like, are you telling me that you can just magically invent a business and just create this life for yourself? And I was just so blown away by it. I became absolutely obsessed. But I think what resonates with me is that you are doing that now for kids and parents in the different programs, but it's that this is what's possible. I know you've grown up this way or I know you've come from this circumstance
Peta Ellis (00:36:26):
To be honest, it's not often people say, what is the course content? And you know what? It's not rocket science. I'm not creating anything new. If you want to do a program on entrepreneurship or how to start a business, where to find good ideas, how to validate it, how to sell, there is that much content as you know out there that is not the barrier to entry. It's not the magical program, it's not the blueprint that works. And I'm always very upfront with that. I said, this is not the program where you are going to follow some steps and at the end have a viable business. It doesn't work like that. This program is for people to understand what they have to offer and how to utilize that and put it into action so that you can possibly utilize the skills that you already have.
(00:37:13):
And that's like you said, opportunity. There's opportunities everywhere, but where do we look for them? Where are they? And so if anything, it's a little bit of a journey into where are these opportunities? Where do I best fit? Am I even do I even running a business? So we do a few things where a few challenges to test. There's no point creating something if you end up hating this. You could be an absolute amazing person at systems and processes, but being upfront and selling is not your thing and you're going to hate that part. So just know that we can't always do everything we can, but we might not love doing everything. And if that's the case, then you probably need to have some other people around you where you can share and utilize and harness the skill sets that come really naturally to you where you really enjoy it and just know that you might need to backfill some of the other tasks with other people and other skill sets because there, but
Danielle Lewis (00:38:09):
Also there might be a gap in time before that can happen depending on if you start yourself or not. Exactly.
Peta Ellis (00:38:15):
And anyone who's been in business knows what that's like to have to wear all of the hats. Yes. And you learn very quickly where your gaps are. And it's usually the tasks that take you the longest or you make the most mistakes or you put them off. But yeah, you've got to wear a lot of hats. It's not easy. But in saying that, I think I've done it enough times to know that no, you don't always have to do everything. I mean, yes, you might have to actually do the doing of it, but in terms of influence and import or mentor or guidance or a really good advisor, there are people with some strengths that you could have around you, not as employees if you can't afford it. But there is absolutely enough people out there, you have to know where to find them. And that's what I love about generating and building support within ecosystems because there are the access you can have to some great minds and great advice and guidance and support is phenomenal now for sure. And it's every corner.
Danielle Lewis (00:39:14):
You literally started today's chat with building communities. Yes. And I think there's actually, there's a really interesting thing. I'm not sure if you've dived too far into the NFT world.
Peta Ellis (00:39:27):
I'm dabbling because I need to and I feel I have fomo. So I've seen you, you've embraced it, and I'm like, Danielle's got this NFT, blah blah blah. She's got emojis happening. I'm like, I'm feeling so far behind right now.
Danielle Lewis (00:39:41):
Well, the thing that interests me the most is the most successful NFT projects all hinge around community. It's all, they always build communities first around a key idea or solving a problem or an interest. And that dictates the success. And I'm just interested because catching up, I'm still catching up whilst I appear to be in the world, I'm very much learning from
Peta Ellis (00:40:06):
The outside. It looks great. It looks like you're leaning.
Danielle Lewis (00:40:09):
Thank you. This is the Instagram life for you. So the progression of web one, web two, Web3 is really interesting because that's where this Web3, the metaverse that everyone talks about, all hinges on community. So it's all about this virtual identity and the groups that we belong to.
Peta Ellis (00:40:28):
Yes. So that makes sense, right? Because it's trust base. And this is what I always come back to is, and that's with any business as you would know, even sales, who do you trust? Do trust what they are saying? Are they going to deliver whatever it is that they say the thing is or the product or the service? Who else can you ask? And how strong is the network? How strong is your community to rely on whether it's for referrals or testimonials, it doesn't really matter. And the essence of those, the core fundamentals of business for me is always relationship building. Because if you build them solidly once or continuously, those relationships carry through for, so I've got relationships in business that were formed in my early twenties and you still have them now. You just never know where people are going to end up.
(00:41:18):
And the difference between either being able to scale or not scale or raise capital or not raise capital or have some success somewhere is usually to do with who you need to meet along the way. What doors can be opened. And I'm not saying that there's a quick or easy way, but we know the difference between a warm lead and selling cold. So if you can nurture those relationships and be authentic around your intent and nurture communities and embed communities with some of these core fundamental concepts, you'll be surprised at what may come back to you down the track. And even if it doesn't make sense at the time, I've found putting effort into giving knowledge, sharing knowledge, contributing, showing up, being reliable, really does pay your dividends in the long run in terms of growing businesses, whatever it might be.
Danielle Lewis (00:42:12):
And that's so true. I think that a lot of people think about sales and sales is anything, I mean, whether it's product sales, whether it's capital raising, whether it's trying to build a team, whatever it is, they always think about, oh my God, I've got this thing to do right now. I've got to reach out to everyone. And so then, because there's always this panic around achieving said outcome, there isn't always a lot of time that goes into that relationship building for no reason. Exactly. And you are spot on asking someone for something later down the track when you have a relationship and it is warm, so much, much more successful, so much easier. And usually it's a value exchange as well. Exactly. So usually youre not just asking for a sale, oh my God, we actually have this thing that can solve that problem that we've been talking about for all this time or it's being
Peta Ellis (00:43:02):
Helpful. I learned really early on in my PR journey, and I talk so much about it, my PR journey because I learned the most about business when I was in that business pr because when you're asking for media coverage, you are asking you in a long line of requests and emails. So you are just one of so many people asking something of someone else, whether it's time, column, space, location, airtime, whatever the thing may be. So yes, you could have an amazing story, but what is the personal connection and have you given something? So I was always taught to make sure you are the most available meaning, and also the person who gives the most, when people need information, can you provide the quotes? Can you give the stats? Can you share information to help make their job easier? So the moment you have an ask in their head, they're already like, oh, she's already given us these many things.
(00:44:06):
Of course, you're right. It's that value exchange you can't just expect to give. And I hear this a lot in business people's expectation, and it's mostly around capital raising, to be honest. People level their level of expectation to get an intro to somewhere just because they think their idea is good and it probably is, but there's also a human behind making that decision or a human behind giving you the intro to the person who's going to make the decision. And you can't just expect to have that transactional relationship without any sort of previous human element to it. I do believe those warm leads are valuable. I have seen it work where it's completely cold and it works and the opportunities there, but look, it doesn't go astray to be nice to people, be helpful, something, share it, be prepared to give it away because I can guarantee later on down the track you will be, you'll be referenced in terms of if someone's putting in contracts or you're putting in a request, but also have you been helpful? Have you been able to help someone? Then it's just human etiquette to be able to do the same for them when required. Well, and
Danielle Lewis (00:45:21):
I do love you saying that about the capital raising process because so scrunch is raised capital god like five times or something. So people always ask me for advice and I say, you've got to treat it like a sales process. It really is. You've got to talk to a lot more people than you think you have to, but it's a lot, so
Peta Ellis (00:45:41):
Many more. But even then it's not just, okay, here's scrunch, let's here's the business and here's the business case and here's the opportunity. What an amazing opportunity are you really should buy in. It's more like who is running it for you? And it doesn't matter. And I always say this to people, it doesn't matter if you had five businesses before, it's got nothing to do with this one. It sort of highlights that you aren't doing this no matter what. You are a founder who executes, yes, you've pivoted, things change, but you're still going and you're still showing up and you have a proven track record of all of these things. So you've got to remember that you are as much as the investment, the investment into you as the founder, as the idea.
Danielle Lewis (00:46:22):
That's exactly what you said when you were like, I was the sales person, the BD person for the PR business. And when I stepped away, I realized that I had such a level of involvement. I don't think founders always realized that they were the pivotal person when it comes to sales BD putting the brand out there. And I don't think there are a number of founders that don't want to be that person, but I think there's a reason why they say there is nobody that can sell your business like you,
Peta Ellis (00:46:53):
Like you. But I'm saying that that's also a downfall when you get to the stage where you scale, and there is a lot of good founders who are amazing at managing the product or driving the business, but they might not be the ultimate CEO because there's a different skillset required when you get to a stage of a company that is growing and scaling, there is a different skillset required, but also if you were to step out, the business needs to be able to operate without you and every single other person in the team should be able to pitch and manage and sell that business just like you do. Now, I did not do this. I did not know this, and I learned the hard way unfortunately, but I had no idea really what I was doing at that point in time. If I was to do that again with team. Of course I embed the culture differently from the start, but you learn. I learned the hard way.
Danielle Lewis (00:47:51):
But that's interesting, right? There's only a couple of ways to learn, right? That on the job hard, make the mistakes, learn, adapt, or take your course or go to a resource where realize has done,
Peta Ellis (00:48:04):
We have payroll to pay and there's no invoices going out. There's a big problem here. What happened? What happened? Hang on a minute. Oh, that's right. We didn't get any new contracts. Why is that? Because you internet, they're selling. Okay, because when there's no
Danielle Lewis (00:48:17):
Sales,
Peta Ellis (00:48:19):
Yeah, when there's no formal sales process and it's identified as obviously your funnel business, which now there's a structure to this has to happen to, this has to happen, this has to happen, right? Back then it was just ad hoc. I'd go to things, make connections, collect business cards, come back, send a proposal, get a client. There was no structure to this, so I couldn't have even taught anybody what I was doing because I didn't even have a process. I didn't even have a process. There was no documentation, which I've learned a lot about governance and admin feels
Danielle Lewis (00:48:53):
Unsexy.
Peta Ellis (00:48:56):
And you know what? I still didn't really understand the process until we went through the acquisition of River City Labs because again, I was the person who was doing a lot of things, didn't really have a formal process for a lot of it. And when you go under the microscope of a large organization that has systems and processes for everything and everything needs to be documented, you're pretty well quick, smart, get some systems and processes sorted out. So I did learn a lot, so much that I'm so grateful to have needed to level up on so many levels very rapidly, but also know that isn't the only thing. So yes, you can have amazing systems and processes and go governance, be on point, but if you don't have culture and you don't really know why you're doing what you're doing, then also you don't have a business. So you've got to be able to bring both
Danielle Lewis (00:49:47):
This crazy balancing act of all of the right pieces,
Peta Ellis (00:49:52):
Continuously, continuously checking in,
(00:49:56):
Continuously checking in, and obviously having run a membership organization, if those members aren't happy, then you don't have a business either. So I was teaching a program today at QT with some students and just reminding them that the essence of without you do not have a business if you don't have customers, and if you don't know what your customers want, then you dunno what you should be selling. And if they're not happy, well then also you're going to be struggling to know what you're supposed to be selling or marketing customers at the forefront of every single thing. Because without them, we don't have a business. We just have an idea. And that's something that never changes, whether there's tech, no tech, the size of the business that is just business 1 0 1, meet the needs of the customer, delight the customer, and obviously grow on the back of that. Everything else that needs to happen, whether it's your own personal skillset, whether it's the culture and team, whether it's systems and processes, whether it's capital and partnerships and mergers and acquisitions, these are all things that come later, but the core fundamentals never change. And it's always human relationships, whether it's you and the customer or you and the other parts of the business, or obviously in terms of advisory and different relationships. So you have to be switched on.
Danielle Lewis (00:51:17):
Yeah, and I think it's so easy to get stuck in the day to day and oh my God, I've got a hundred emails in my inbox and oh my God, I need to write this proposal, I need to do this. But actually saying, okay, what are the most important things and that are customers, that is my relationships with my team and actually carving out time every day to make sure you're checking in with the different relationships.
Peta Ellis (00:51:41):
That's a whole job in itself. That in itself is a whole job. Normally I'm a full-time person, but you're right, it's such a fine line and a difficult thing to manage and balance because yes, you have a team to show up for and be there for and provide guidance and leadership for. Then there's your own work. If you've got an active role within the business, whatever it is that you're doing. Usually if a CEO os obviously the vision and getting customers in and executing on the plan, then managing the higher level relationships, whether it's partners and advisors and boards, that's a whole other world of making sure that you're documenting and reporting to and seeking guidance from carving out time for all of that. Then somewhere in there, you've got a life,
Danielle Lewis (00:52:35):
Oh, what's that? We need a whole episode of when you get home
Peta Ellis (00:52:38):
At night to hopefully somebody who's then that's a whole other world.
Danielle Lewis (00:52:47):
And that's probably an interesting point because so we're probably getting out of time and I don't want to take off your entire evening, otherwise we will stay here and drink a bottle of wine together. But I just know, so thinking back to your experience with peak
Peta Ellis (00:53:03):
Persona, persona,
Danielle Lewis (00:53:05):
And obviously having talked to 1000 million entrepreneurs over the many years, I think it's one thing that's really clear in a lot of founder communities right now, and you mentioned it even when you were talking about the businesses where someone would take over a business and get founder burnout. So just feel like that is something that everyone's kind of talking about right now and it's so easy to get overwhelmed and it's so easy to think about all of the things on our plate and go, oh my God, how about I just go back to bed? Do you have any advice there from what you've seen? Is there any kind of, and there won't be a silver bullet, but is there anything that we should be thinking about as founders to preserve ourself so that we can show up as better founders in the business?
Peta Ellis (00:53:52):
Look, it's a hard one and it's ongoing, and I think I've experienced all versions of, and I probably could have given 10 different answers over the last 10 years, but what I do know is, and I can speak from personal experience and also having seen lots of people go through the journey as well, is sometimes you are going to be out of balance and you are going to work way more than you have the physical energy or physical capacity to do so. But sometimes the business needs you to do that. And then you're going to stretch relationships, you're going to stretch your personal relationships, you're going to stretch your work relationships. You're probably going to ask more of yourself and the people around you than is sustainable.
(00:54:39):
But that also is what's required sometimes to push the boundaries, to make things work. And no, it's not to say that's sustainable to hustle 24 7, but as you know, a founder, sometimes when you are in that growth phase, sometimes it's going to require more than the nine to five to get your work done or to build those relationships or to work across different time zones. And you may need to spend more time at work than you do with your family. That's going to happen. I don't think it's unavoidable. I think there's probably some people who would say it is, but I've from lived experience, there are times when you're going to be pulled in one direction or the other, and business will suffer when you withdraw too much and spend time elsewhere. And then also relationships suffer when you spend a lot of time in the business and not with family and partners and whatnot.
(00:55:34):
So all you can do, I think, as an individual and as a founder is continuously check in with yourself and know that and communicate what's going on. So I've seen it work really well, and if you have a relationship where you can be upfront and honest and saying, you know what? I'm going to need to do this sprint for the next month, or I'm going to do some crazy hours, I'm probably not going to be present. I'm going to be preoccupied in my mind and this is what I'm going to need to do that. But I do know that when we get to a point, I will spend more time at home or we can plan something so that we can come back together, regroup. But it's important to communicate what's going on and not just assume people should be okay with that because there is always other people in this relationship.
(00:56:23):
It's not just about you and you shouldn't just expect people to be okay with what you are doing. So bringing people into the journey, along the journey, communicating what's going on. And also as entrepreneurs, you sort of play with the mind that doesn't switch off. And always having an idea and always chasing something else. Always chasing, chasing, chasing. And sometimes you can partner up with somebody or have family members who don't live life that way. And that's great actually if you've got a good balance. But it's also to communicate that you know what, that is how you like operating. If you like operating. Because I always had people, my family, who would say, oh, you're working so much and you shouldn't do this. And I'm like, no, no, I actually, I'm enjoying this. That's how I get my energy. I love it. Enjoy going to work.
(00:57:10):
Yeah, I really love, I know it seems crazy and I don't probably earn as much money as if I went and got a job. Yes, I work crazy hours, but you know what? I'm doing something that really lights my soul. Yes, I'm tired, but I can see for me it's worth it here or there or whatever. I know I'm probably going to stuff it up and then probably going to be mistakes, but I wouldn't be happy if I didn't have a go. So I think if you explain sometimes why you're doing it, I'm not saying it makes it easier, but it might help bring somebody on the journey rather than sort of making up assumptions. But look, things will get out of balance and you've got to be able to know yourself enough to go, okay, I'm not being healthy right now, or I do need sleep or I've swung too much this way.
(00:57:55):
I probably need to come back. And also having people around you who can identify when your behaviors change and call you out on things, that's key as well. Because often when you're in it, you can't see it and have someone say to you who you trust and you won't get offended by and just say, look, thank you for bringing that to my attention. You are right. I have been doing this, this and this, or haven't been showing up or whatever. So trusted friendships or relationships or even good, really good co-founder relationships can be super powerful in that environment. But it is one of those journeys where, yeah, you're going to get out of balance regularly.
(00:58:34):
There's a lot around having a lifestyle business and you can do that. And if some people manage to do that and they can sort of make sure they're filling up all their buckets everywhere, that's awesome. I, I've always managed to have this pendulum situation where it's, I go really far this way, come back this way and hopefully somewhere in the middle I'm going to show up where I need to show up and deliver. The other thing is in terms of either relationships or co-founder relationships is having those very honest conversations early on. Meaning if you're starting that journey is how long can we operate like this? Or how long are you prepared to either go without income or a really reduced income or none, no income. And if we get to a point and we still haven't made any money, are you prepared to go and get work because I could do this. So they are hard conversations to have, but they're essential conversations, especially
Danielle Lewis (00:59:30):
When you are a super optimistic visionary enthusia. Because
Peta Ellis (00:59:35):
If you are the person with a vision, it's always happening. You are always going to, you're just
Danielle Lewis (00:59:39):
One idea away from
Peta Ellis (00:59:41):
One idea away. Exactly. And it's a problem because often sometimes you've got too much rose in your colored glasses. So when really you need a realistic go, you know what, I don't think this is going to happen. I think we need to really call it or make some changes. Sometimes vision and hope and energy and passion don't get you there. They don't just get you there alone. You can have it and it's amazing but far out you need to execute. You need to sell, you need the customers, you need the business, you need the systems, you need the relationships. You need all of us. You can't just thrive off passion,
Danielle Lewis (01:00:25):
You need to follow through. And it just doesn't happen overnight. Everything that we have talked about takes a lot of time and so much time. A lot of time in the day, years of effort and
Peta Ellis (01:00:38):
Years, years, years, years. And look, but mind you, I've seen some people actually do really well in two years and three years and you're like wow. And that's a combination of an amazing opportunity, really good idea, great skills, maybe some awesome connections or great timing. So you can have amazing ideas and all the execution in the world, but maybe the timing's not right.
(01:01:03):
So there's so many parts to what's going to make your thing work or not work. And there is absolutely a level of can you keep showing up and up? Can you take all the nose and push on anyway? So I haven't seen one formula that wins, but you've got to be able to be very self-aware to know that am I just pushing on because I'm really, my ego wants this to make it work or do I fundamentally believe it's possible and I'm willing to do all the things. So yeah, you have to have a lot of self-awareness, a lot of self-awareness or be surrounded by those other people who can call you out as well. Because sometimes, like I said, if you don't have the self-awareness, you can sort of lead yourself down a path which is also sort of going to be very hopeful but not really going anywhere either.
Danielle Lewis (01:01:53):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No, I love it. I think they should teach self-awareness at school. I think big, it's a lot,
Peta Ellis (01:02:03):
But it's not just that.
(01:02:05):
And I teach this with the school kids and we do some various activities in terms of what comes naturally to you and permission to harness that a hundred percent. And don't do your head in if you are not a numbers person, don't worry. You have to have an awareness but own it and say, I need help here. I'm never going to pick up mistakes here. I'm not going to pick up trends, I'm going to miss things, but I'm going to need some help. I'm going to need some help. But I do this part really well and I really probably need to harness that. So it's huge. And that's just even in teams and in teams of staff and even family relationships, it's all the same. If we were taught greater skill sets or different toolkits as kids to understand that we could probably make better decisions when we're starting out. But I do believe half the things you learn is because when you stuff it up, because you know when you stuff it up, you don't want to go back there and do that again. For me, it's like I'm not coming back here.
Danielle Lewis (01:03:04):
Yeah. There is nothing like that visceral experience of doing it yourself and experiencing it.
Peta Ellis (01:03:11):
And when you do it twice, you're like, what are you doing? You're back here again. What did you not learn?
Danielle Lewis (01:03:19):
Exactly. Alright, well look, you are absolutely phenomenal. Thank you for Thank you. Listening to your
Peta Ellis (01:03:27):
Ramble on.
Danielle Lewis (01:03:28):
Oh my God. No, it was fantastic. It was the perfect way to spend my evening. I'm absolutely stoked to have spoken to you today.
Peta Ellis (01:03:35):
I bought some energy into Kalgoorlie.
Danielle Lewis (01:03:38):
Absolutely you have. That's what I have to do from now. Just all my inspiration.
Peta Ellis (01:03:43):
Dial in the people. Dial in the people.
Danielle Lewis (01:03:46):
Exactly. No, and I appreciate it and I know everyone dialing in and listening to the Spark Interviews founders that are looking for a little bit of inspiration. And I really appreciate you being honest and sharing your journey and some of the challenges and how we can all potentially overcome them and have happier and more exciting businesses. I love it.
Peta Ellis (01:04:10):
Well look, I wouldn't change a thing. I would not change a single thing. And I think that's the thing is I want to say to people, just have a go. Have a go. Who cares? You stuff it up, who cares? It could be amazing, it could be terrible, but have a try. I guarantee you're going to learn so much more about yourself.
Danielle Lewis (01:04:27):
And
Peta Ellis (01:04:27):
If we're not doing that, what are we doing
Danielle Lewis (01:04:30):
Exactly? Watching maths on tv. We don't want that to happen. Start a business.
Peta Ellis (01:04:37):
They're making a great amount of money.
Danielle Lewis (01:04:41):
Right? So good.
