#awinewith Nikki Cali
MEET Nikki, founder of Wisdome.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:05):
So good. Nikki, welcome to Spark tv.
Nikki Cali (00:09):
Thank you for having me, Danielle.
Danielle Lewis (00:11):
I'm so excited. We were just chatting about, so you're a new Spark member and you have just launched right in, and I was just telling you how amazing you are for being a Go-getter. I love people who take advantage of all of the opportunities in Spark. So I am so excited to share your story on the podcast.
Nikki Cali (00:32):
Thank you.
Danielle Lewis (00:33):
So good. Well let's start there. Let's start by telling everyone who you are and what you do.
Nikki Cali (00:38):
Who on Earth am I? Who
Danielle Lewis (00:40):
The heck are you? I
Nikki Cali (00:42):
Question usually every morning when I wake up I go, what am I doing here? So I'm Nikki Kelly, I'm the founder of a content and community management platform, so called Wisdom. And this has been a platform that's been in the run for about four years since conception. Look, it was brought out through paint and purpose. So my background, whoever is in product development, in marketing, I was a product buyer in textiles actually, interestingly enough, over 20 years ago. And then I went out on my own. I've always had the entrepreneurial mind set. So I went out on my own and built a luxury linen brand and
Danielle Lewis (01:32):
Cool.
Nikki Cali (01:33):
And that sort of evolved into consulting services and traveling to amazing, amazing places and, and then falling pregnant a second time, but as a mature mom and was told, no, no, no more travel, you have to stay in bed. And I thought, what the hell am I going to do with myself now? So I started a membership and then couldn't find the tool and wham bam, thank you. I became a founder of a platform
Danielle Lewis (02:02):
Tech founder. Oh my god.
Nikki Cali (02:04):
And purpose. So yeah. Yeah, I think hubby at that time I was pregnant and I just want to do something. Just said, alright, let's do it. So yeah. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (02:14):
I love it. And I'm so blown away because, so I studied fashion and was a fashion person and then got into being a tech founder. I don't know what the connection is with that.
Nikki Cali (02:26):
You got to be creative, don't you? You've got to be creative. Maybe that's
Danielle Lewis (02:29):
It. Yes, that's it. So I wasn't a tech kind of person. I was a creative and a sales and marketing person as well. And then I was like, maybe we're just delusional, maybe. Yeah,
Nikki Cali (02:40):
Maybe,
Danielle Lewis (02:41):
Maybe that's what it is. We just went, oh, this can't be that hard,
Nikki Cali (02:46):
Easy to do. We're creative, we can get it done.
Danielle Lewis (02:49):
Surely there's someone that can help. Oh my God, tell me about it. So then, okay, all joking aside, how the hell did you build a tech platform?
Nikki Cali (02:59):
Platform? Yeah, a lot of research I took, and like I said, it took four years, so it was a good 18 months of just a lot of research asking people. I actually created my own app for my own membership at one point. So by doing that, I mentioned it to people and they're like, how did you do it? So I realized there was a need. So during that process there was a lot of surveys, questions, finding out, but also I studied and look as a buyer, I understood there's ways that you have to explain a brief. If you want a product developed, you've got to understand the language of the manufacturer, et cetera. So for me, I wanted to understand how I could communicate with ease with a developer. So I studied UX a little bit, understand wire frames and everything, and then the UI journey, like the UI look and feel.
(03:51):
And so I just packaged it all up and then that was the moment where I went, all right, I know what is needed. I know how I've sort of got to get it flowing. And then, yeah, just did a lot of research on, and look, and you'd get this too. You go in there, you find a developer, it's usually based on price because you don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially if you're bootstrapping. And look, the first person we've gone to three of them, first person was using templates, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, we don't use templates. So got rid of them. Second person promised the whole world didn't deliver, not even half of it. And so we left them. And interestingly enough, the third and the person who has been with us for all this time, he's an architect, and I actually, I never forget, it was a Friday afternoon, called him up. I told him what the brief was and everything. He came back and said, look, this is massive. I don't know if I can do this. And I just begged. I begged speaking, my God, I don't know why, but you have to be on my team. And it's just been absolutely amazing since then, and he's just freaking awesome. So yeah, I think intuition played a huge part in it. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (05:08):
Well, I mean, I love that you started that with research and educating yourself because that is a smart road. I did not do that. I just learned by failing.
Nikki Cali (05:23):
Yeah, I still fail along the way, babe. It just happens.
Danielle Lewis (05:27):
Oh my God. But it's so interesting because it's such a common story with especially non-tech founders going into the technology space, going through so many different developers. So experimenting with outsourcing, experimenting with agencies, experimenting with full-time developers, but getting kind of screwed every step of the way. I feel like tech is, and don't get me wrong, this some really good tech people out there, and I've had great experiences, but I feel like because it's so technical, for want of a better word, there are a lot of people out there that do pull the wool over your eyes a little bit, and you do have to be, like you said, super clear on the brief, but also willing to stand up for yourself and move on.
Nikki Cali (06:22):
That pulling the triggers are the hardest part. But you know what? There comes a point, and I never forget when we did take on the second guys, there was this feeling of, I'm just not sure about it, but I just put that down to I'm just not educated enough in this to really trust myself. So I just went ahead and then as things went on, but you realize it. I think we all go through that process, never a right time if it's just not working, if your business isn't going the way it's supposed to be going, that you plan for it to go, you have to have to reevaluate and pull the trigger if you have to. If you don't, the further you dive deep into it, the harder it's to get out.
Danielle Lewis (07:08):
Oh my God, there are no truer words. And I mean, that just goes beyond tech developers, beyond technology. That's literally everything, isn't it? I mean, holding onto an employee of any description or even holding onto a strategy. It's really interesting that you bring this up because we've been talking a lot lately about everyone's having a bit of a tough time in business right now, and we're saying words like the economy and cost of living crisis and dah, dah, dah. But one thing I've been really feeling is, okay, really what this comes down to is what we're doing right now isn't working. So we have to change and we have to change quickly because you're right, if you don't change, if you don't pull the trigger, if you don't make the hard decisions, you do just go further and further down a path that you don't want to be on.
Nikki Cali (07:58):
You've got to be agile. I think in business, you have to be agile and look, that could be the creative mind thing. You've got to be willing to see that the path will change. Sometimes I went from with my luxury linen business wholesaling, selling online retail to made to order because that brought down the minimum water quantity on things and I was importing and all that sort of stuff. And then it actually moved into consultation and then that moved into a membership, and then the evolution was there because I had to move with the economy, I had to shift. I didn't want to sit there and go, no, no, no, I have to just stay here. Grant, there's so many different ways you can market your business, but there's also different ways you can strategize your business as well. It's not just this is the be all end all. You can still sell that one product, but it's how you market it or maybe package it. There's so many different ways to sort of shift and review.
Danielle Lewis (08:59):
Yeah, it's funny. So people used to call me the pivot queen, and I feel like it was derogatory. I felt like they were saying it in a bad way, but it was exactly that. 12 years ago when we started Scrunch my other business, it wasn't an influencer marketing platform. It started, what did it start out as? It started out as a virtual change room for fashion and then a fashion discovery platform, and then an inventory management solution, then a social media monitoring tool, and then the influencer marketing platform. But it was just, we had no idea what we were doing. We had no tech experience, no business experience. We were literally just like, oh, this is a good idea. Build it. No one wants to buy it. Shit, let's start again. And it's so funny now I'm like, oh my God, I won't build anything without selling it first. Now I'm so scarred. But I think that's the best advice I can ever give anyone is actually get someone to pay for something first, to validate if it's a good idea before you spend your life savings on building something, take it from me. But yeah, it is really interesting. I don't think pivoting is a bad thing. I think that it's funny, pre covid, I feel like pivoting was bad. Covid happened. It kind of gave us permission a little bit to pivot.
Nikki Cali (10:19):
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, that
Danielle Lewis (10:20):
Is. Yeah. But I think it's just a good sentiment. I love the word agile that you used. It is just that if things aren't working, try something new. You are the boss.
Nikki Cali (10:30):
Yeah, and it's okay. Give yourself permission. It's all right. Look, I think the biggest thing is, and my biggest, my coach, I've had her for a few years now, but I've always told her my biggest fear is the unknown. Not knowing what questions to us, not necessarily the answers, but not knowing what questions to ask. So I think that's probably, that kind of might stop, excuse me, I can speak English. That might be one thing that might stop people in being agile because they don't know what's going to happen. But that's the fun part of being an entrepreneur. It's risky, but you got to take calculated risks. So you just ask the basics and then as you get in there more and more, you find out more of the questions that you need to ask. So just start asking questions if you need to change things up a little bit. And it always goes back to, and I saw your recent email, like Liz calls, it's always back to community. Support yourself, surround yourself with people who will just throw out answers at you and just pick the right one. That's for you.
Danielle Lewis (11:36):
I love that you said that because that's, again, so literally we were just talking about, so we're, we are both part of Spark and One Roof, and I just got off a Instagram live with Cherri, the founder of One Roof, and that was literally something that we talked about as well. It's like when times are tough sometimes your friends, your family, your partner, your people close to you don't really get what you're going through. And so having a community of women in business who can just be there for you, but help you ask you those questions and help you figure out where you're going, offer ups ideas and suggestions, they might not be the right ideas, but they may help you to get to the right idea. It's so nice to know that you're not alone in business.
Nikki Cali (12:26):
Yeah, you're right. Can spark the idea. I know.
Danielle Lewis (12:30):
I love it. I love it. Oh my God, that's so good. So where's the business at now? So four years of product development, are you, I know, I feel you visceral. It feels like it
Nikki Cali (12:42):
Never ends, but we got there in the end.
Danielle Lewis (12:45):
But that is the thing with tech though it is never ending, right? There will always be a new feature
Nikki Cali (12:52):
Constantly. And now my architect's like, dude, choose a priority. First
Danielle Lewis (12:58):
Down, I'm like, they're all priorities. I would like you to build everything one of.
Nikki Cali (13:02):
Bye next week. No, look, it's May March last year we actually launched. And look, maybe because of my background service industry and so forth, I'm very much about customer support. Support's massive. We built our whole help site, SOPs, everything before we even launched. And then we just literally, as soon as we launched, we did screenshots, videos of everything within that month and then slotted them in to the help site because I had to make sure whoever came on had that support if I wasn't there live to help 'em. So we actually had a two day or three day, I think it was two day summit, where I brought in all these other experts in the industry of online business and selling your knowledge and building a community that went off with a massive bang. So that was fantastic. That brought in a whole group of users.
(13:59):
And ever since then it's just been a constant ride of offering free webinars, free knowledge sessions, things like that, as well as extra. Just the evolution of the platform has been amazing since March last year too. Now it's completely, not completely flipped, but it's still there. The bones are there and everything, but there's just so many additions that have come through. And I think everything that's come through has been from feedback. And also it's the pre and post feedback. We bookend all the time. So people who are coming in looking at it, we have a feedback button on that platform for both members and the actual community experts and so forth. And everyone can either take a screenshot video of it, send a message, chat to us, anything they want and just offer if they've got an idea on a new feature function, whatever it is. And we just take that every week we do a review of revised meeting and we check out what's going on, what people are saying, and then we just start sort of prioritizing based on what they need. And I think because of that we've been able to grow. Yeah, that's been good.
Danielle Lewis (15:16):
I think it's such an amazing lesson. I think people get scared of asking their communities for feedback in any industry, whether you are a tech founder, whether you are a membership community, whether you are a service-based business. I just think that feedback from your customers is absolute gold. Understanding what to build next, even understanding what to sell next. That was a really interesting thing that came up in our talk about through tough times, what are good strategies, retaining your existing clients and actually looking after them and actually communicating with them is so valuable because it's so much cheaper to retain business than it is to get new business. But you do that by talking to them. You do that by getting that feedback.
Nikki Cali (16:07):
Yeah, exactly. Well, it's interesting. We've introduced a migration service, which is obviously bringing over content from another platform or brand new. But one of the big things before we even did the migration thing was, and we picked up on it, a lot of people were like, we love the platform. We just haven't, we are too busy twiddling our thumbs and deciding how to use the platform. So I introduced a program called Effects, which is officially executing. So just get the stuff on there. And that program I've run twice and it's just the cohort, we just finished that one January one finished end of March, but it goes for a whole year. And they actually go through that process of understanding what it is that they want to do. They put it into the platform, and then there's accountability for the rest of the year where we completely touch base constantly.
(17:00):
So for us, with respect to feedback, it really helped me gauge the problems people are having to choose a platform for one, how they're going to use the platform and how they're going to continue growing on the platform because we've built the platform for them, so I need to know how they're going to use it, why are they're going to use it, how all that sort of stuff. So feedback is a massive thing. And obviously as a product development, we understand that everything that we are doing is for other people, so we need to talk to those other people. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (17:36):
And I mean it's really interesting. I think it's super underrated in terms of even new revenue opportunities. Listening to your customers and figuring out what they need is also a great way to invent new products and sell new things or sell another tier, whether it be an extra level of support or a done for you service or that one-on-one coaching or whatever it might be. But again, just goes back to that talking to your customers, understanding why they're either twiddling their thumbs or why they are stalling actually getting in the platform or whatever it might be. I think it's so, so powerful. So then tell me over time, over the last four years of building this, what do you think have been the biggest challenges that you've faced in business?
Nikki Cali (18:28):
Someone asked me this not long ago. I read an article and someone asked me that question. I think it was the whole equilibrium between innovation, support, financial, it's all of this sort of trying to keep staying progressive in your product. And like you said, people sometimes have to pivot or add an extra service and trying to work out what that service is, we can all get that feedback. But the challenge is trying to work out what feedback to engage first. Obviously you're going to engage with all feedback, but which one is the first one you're actually going to action and why? And where is it going to take you if you do engage in that? Yeah, and look, that's how FX was born because we engaged with our users and they were asking those questions, oh, okay, we'll do this. You can't do everything obviously. But yeah, that was one of the biggest challenges
Danielle Lewis (19:29):
I would tend to agree. No, and I tend to agree with you because it is really, as a business owner, you've just got so much going on. You are literally every employee, especially at the start, especially in that build phase, it's really hard to prioritize, isn't it? Like, okay, today I have to be a CFO today I have to be briefing the tech team Today I have to be, oh, now I'm a marketing guru. It is the balance and the brain space that requires is huge.
Nikki Cali (20:02):
Yeah. Yeah. The energy levels it takes, and just like you said before we started, got to remember to live a life somewhere
Danielle Lewis (20:11):
That
Nikki Cali (20:13):
Look as, I think every entrepreneur, every person who runs their own business, they never switch off anyway. But yeah, balancing what hat to wear, to me, the word balance doesn't even exist really. But I guess it's just,
Danielle Lewis (20:30):
Yeah. Do you have any strategies that you have adopted to try and bring a little balance slash sanity slash not burn out to your life?
Nikki Cali (20:43):
Because I work from home. I do have a three o'clock or four o'clock timeframe for myself where I sit there and go, all right, coffee, get outside, rain, hail or shine, get outside, sit on the porch, whatever. We have a little resident owl that hangs out at our place. So I'm always going, you're around today. I'm just checking on it. But that's sort of my way of switching off at that time or it's picking up the kids. But the other thing is the strategy to keep myself going at work is to give myself moments to learn as well. Not just do to me, look, this is the whole reason why I built the platform, but I am passionate about how people learn, how people educate themselves, how people share their stories. This is how humanity evolved, sharing our stories. So learning is a big part of my weekly, not daily, but weekly. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (21:45):
I love that because I often feel guilty for reading a book or watching a course, or God forbid I attend a webinar live.
Nikki Cali (21:56):
You feel bad. You feel like I'm supposed to be doing something, checking things off. But
Danielle Lewis (22:00):
Yeah, totally, totally. It's really hard to remember that the world doesn't end if you don't tick something off your to-do list. And it's oftentimes in that learning that you have better ideas and you come up with different solutions that actually kind help the to-do list and help the business.
Nikki Cali (22:23):
Yeah, exactly. No, you're totally spot on there. I reckon it's a big thing. And that to-do list thing, I actually said to my daughter once, and I'm really bad with remembering names, really bad my, but there's this video, there's this YouTube clip of this sergeant, whatever, and he said the first thing, and anyway, I told my daughter this thing, at least if you can do your bed in the morning, that's the first thing that you've done. And if you haven't done anything else or felt like you haven't achieved anything else, when it's time to go to bed, your bed's been done. So you, you've had a win that day. So don't be so hard on yourself. And she's 13, getting into teenagehood, all this sort of stuff. So she's putting a lot of pressure on herself. She's a very creative mind. And I think it's just that having that mindset at an early stage will help you through if you are an entrepreneur or if you are, whatever kind of field you're going to go into, having that ability to just be kind to yourself with your task list and remembering you're allowed to live life.
(23:25):
You're allowed to learn. You're allowed to get out there and walk around, whatever you are allowed.
Danielle Lewis (23:33):
I love it. Be kind to yourself. That is, oh my God, I feel like that should be on a poster somewhere or somewhere. Just be constant reminder to us business owners. It is interesting, isn't it? I know a lot of people listening in do have that voice inside their head that is, why haven't we done this? Or It's not good enough, or I'm not far enough along, or I haven't achieved enough. But it does take time, doesn't it? And the small wins are still wins.
Nikki Cali (24:04):
I'm a huge, I actually wrote an article on it, I think, where I'm sick of hearing all these, build this course in two days and sell
Danielle Lewis (24:16):
It. Oh my God.
Nikki Cali (24:17):
It's like, I'm so overhearing that shit. Excuse my lemme,
Danielle Lewis (24:19):
You can be a billionaire in 17 seconds. Yeah,
Nikki Cali (24:22):
It's like piss off.
Danielle Lewis (24:25):
Totally. Really, it drives me nuts as well. Seriously,
Nikki Cali (24:29):
I've literally got this little thing on the side of my desk here and it's got smile, your smile, slow down. You're doing great. And that's something my daughter said to me, and I've got it up on the wall next to me, and every now and then, it's like, yeah, slow down. I do tend to talk fast, as you can tell. So my brain goes a million miles an hour, and she's always said, just slow down, mommy. Just slow down. Okay. And I think we all have to tell ourselves that every now and then.
Danielle Lewis (24:55):
Totally. Totally. I think that be kind to yourself. The other thing I'm like, while we're talking about doing all of the things and being kind to ourself and things being tough and having to pivot and all of these concepts that we're throwing around, the other one that's coming up for me lately that I've landed on the last couple of days is you can feel like shit. You can feel overwhelmed and the world is on fire and my business sucks and I want to quit and all the things, but still do stuff. You can feel like shit and still send the email or still send the proposal you said you would send. I just feel like there's also this funny thing, and I think it goes back to this rhetoric that we see on Instagram about how you're supposed to run your business and there is supposed to be, oh, it's supposed to be easy and flowy and joyful and all of the things. And look, don't get me wrong, I'd love a little bit more of all that stuff in my business too, but I also think there are seasons and sometimes the season is this is really fucking hard and I still have to show up and respond to my customers or get feedback or look after my team. Yeah, what are your thoughts
Nikki Cali (26:09):
Exactly that? I was literally doing a podcast with two other women that we're doing a series on, and we were talking about nurturing. You put out an offer out there, you have to nurture it. It's like having a child. You don't just give birth to child and go see you later. You've got to nurture it and you have to. And sometimes you just got to turn up every day. You've got to turn up and you just pull through. And sometimes, and I'm not going to deny this, that I haven't had moments of literally crying and breaking down. I have had those moments and it's just like, you know what? All right, I've cried it. What is it that I just need to do? All right, is that on my checklist? I'll just do it, get that done, and then I'll nick off, go have a glass of wine or come back, meditate, whatever it is that I know would just chill me. But comes back down to again that just allowing yourself those moments. We're all bloody human. We're not mechanical robots out there to do everything. We might act like them every now and then when we've got to tick off a task, send an email. But it is what it is,
Danielle Lewis (27:18):
And it is funny. I agree. You've got to feel the feelings. Sometimes. You do have to cry it out and have the glass of wine. I just think that it's really, we've got to talk the real talk because there is so much of this highlight reel of how amazing things should be on Instagram. I'm calling out Instagram a lot today, but it is, I do see all of these stories and I think it just sucks because it's not like that. I've been in business for 12 years now, and don't get me wrong, there's been some great moments, great milestones, all the things, but I'm telling you, it's like 90% hard.
Nikki Cali (27:59):
I never forget to now, there was a moment. I literally sent a messenger chat to some awesome women that I know out there that I've got great clicks with. And it was interesting after it because everyone went, oh my God, we're all on here together. This is just weird. But I sent them a message saying, I'm having a fricking panic attack. I'm just really questioning myself. I just need your support. Please. Just, I don't know what to do. I couldn't even verbalize really articulate what it was that I was feeling. It was just like, I'm not, I don't know who to turn to. I can't turn to my friends. Just like you said, sometimes it's like your friends, your family don't really get it. And there was all these things going on, and just within, not even a minute, one of them came back and then another one, and this was all, I think on a Friday night. I was getting ready to go out with my husband somewhere, and I was just like, oh my God. So there are people out there that you don't, and I actually sent it out. I'm thinking, I don't know if anyone's going to answer this, but we're all there for each other because we get it. We've all been there. Even though Instagram, it's all that visual prettiness bullshit it. There's reality there, and I think we're all aware of it, especially in these groups and these type of networks.
Danielle Lewis (29:16):
It's nice to know that you're not alone, isn't it? Yeah. It's really nice to know that as driven and ambitious and as huge goals that we have for ourselves and our business, there will be tough days, but there are women out there. It always blows my mind as to how much a women won't ask for help, but then B, how much women are willing help their other women. If we would just ask each other for support, it would come back a hundred fold because women are so amazing at supporting each other.
Nikki Cali (29:51):
Yeah, actually, I didn't make a point of it, but those women that I asked in that group are women that you would probably think they probably go through their things, but they look like they've got the most glam lives or whatever. Just it was one of those things where was, yay, you feel it too. It's not just me. Yeah. Anyway.
Danielle Lewis (30:11):
No, I love it. I just, again, I think it's important to have the real conversations that, because I firmly believe there's going to be someone listening into this who's like, oh, good, I'm having a shit day today. Who should I turn to? Exactly. Oh God, I love it so much. I feel like we could just talk forever. So one last question that I love to leave our Spark TV guest with is, so reflecting on your time in business, what would be one piece of advice that you would give to another woman to help her along her journey in business?
Nikki Cali (30:50):
I have two words that I constantly say, and it's grit and agility. Just have grit. Get up, keep going because you have the energy to do it. You can do this and be agile. So yeah, just move about. Just move. Don't let anyone become your barrier. Jump over them. Go around them, whatever.
Danielle Lewis (31:13):
I love that so much. I think that that literally sums up my journey in business as well. Just keep going and find a way. Agility is such a great word for once upon a time, we potentially called it pivoting, whatever it is. It's just like corporate
Nikki Cali (31:31):
Word, corporate speech. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (31:33):
Totally. But find a solution, find a way. There's always a way. That's one lesson I've learned as grim as things may seem. There's always a way.
Nikki Cali (31:44):
Always there is. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (31:46):
Oh, Nikki, you are so amazing. Thank you so much.
Nikki Cali (31:52):
I could do this again with you anytime.
Danielle Lewis (31:55):
I love it. I have a feeling there'll be more chats in our future. Definitely. No, but that's so good. We will link up to the platform as well, because I know anyone building those communities should be checking it out and making sure that they jump on. So we'll absolutely link it up through the show notes and all of our social call outs. So thank you again for coming on the show.
Nikki Cali (32:17):
Thank you, Danielle, for having me.
✨ Thank you to IP Australia for supporting the SPARK podcast and women in business ✨
