#awinewith Michelle Eckles
MEET Michelle Eckles, founder of Meditation Sunshine Coast.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:07):
Michelle, welcome to Spark tv. Thank you. So I'm super excited to share your story with everybody. I am always impressed by the things that you are up to, so thank you for coming on here and having a chat. I appreciate it. Thank you. Why don't we just start by telling everyone who you are and what you do?
Michelle Eckles (00:27):
Yes, sure. So my name is Michelle and my business is Meditation Sunshine Coast. I also have cultivating a calm mind, which I'm sort of in the process of transitioning over to. So at the moment I offer mindfulness and meditation coaching workshops in the workplace. I run a four week course on behalf of Mindfulness Works Australia and three different locations on the coast. And my passion though is running retreats and next year I will be offering five retreats. So that's what really makes my heart sing. I get to combine my 20 plus years of event management skills with teaching mindfulness and meditation. And so that's where my focus is moving towards now.
Danielle Lewis (01:18):
Awesome. So what the heck is mindfulness?
Michelle Eckles (01:22):
What's mindfulness? So I guess in a nutshell, everybody, well, not everybody, but most people probably here are referred to as being in the present moment, which is part of it, but also what is the benefit of being in the present moment, I guess is the key as well? All well and good saying, just focus on what you're doing and yeah,
Danielle Lewis (01:44):
I'm here. I'm doing nothing but I'm here.
Michelle Eckles (01:47):
So a lot of anxiety and depression can be caused from thinking about worrying about things that may or may not happen in the future. That's your anxiety and ruminating and going over and over and over things that have happened in the past, which can cause depression. So that's why practicing mindfulness, being in the present moment is beneficial from that respect. But it's also about being in that present moment without judging the experience that we're having as well. Our little minds are negatively geared. It's not our fault, it's intergenerational, it's evolutionary. So we do have to work harder to try and be more positive in that present moment and not looking for things that may or may not be wrong. And then we add to that building our level of self-awareness, and we start to then become a lot more aware of our triggers and our thoughts and our emotions and build greater compassion for ourselves and empathy skills for ourselves and other people as well. So I think it's three key things, but yes, it's being in the present moment to stop that mind wandering gives us greater peace doing that without judging the experience that you're having and being more aware of your own thoughts and emotions all at the same time. So nice and easy.
Danielle Lewis (03:09):
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Just that simple people. No, I love it because I feel like it's one of those skills that is not only a good life skill but also a good business skill. I always think to myself when we're talking about people's businesses, how do we relate this to business owners? But you saying that I think about myself and my own experiences and exactly what you're saying. Sometimes you're thinking about, oh my God, what if this happens? Or Oh, I should have handled that differently and then an hour's passed and all I've done is procrastinate on nothing and not move the business forward at all.
Michelle Eckles (03:51):
And
Danielle Lewis (03:51):
I'm probably more stressed.
Michelle Eckles (03:53):
Exactly. So yeah, that probably is the opposite of mindfulness is that procrastination, but also doing things on autopilot. And once we do start to become a lot more mindful and manage those thoughts, we get to clear some of that mind clutter and become a lot more focused. And that's where it really helps with making business decisions and productivity as well, because you are just a lot more focused, a lot more clarity tend to be able to tap into your intuition a little bit more too once we slow down and start listening.
Danielle Lewis (04:24):
Yeah, and that's interesting, isn't it? I think we talk about intuition or gut feeling or whatever it might be. And so many times as business owners, we have those moments where we're like, oh, this just doesn't feel right. And sometimes we take our own thoughts and feelings and other times we don't follow our gut. But it is interesting, I love that thought that when we can tap into mindfulness and be a little bit more self-aware, accessing that gut feeling can be a little bit easier potentially.
Michelle Eckles (04:59):
Definitely. So I originally started meditating purely to, because I was so stressed, I was so overwhelmed of day-to-day life. I was just in a cycle of lots of painkillers for my back, drinking myself to sleep most nights, running a business, looking after two kids, selling my house, and then just getting up the next day and repeat.
(05:23):
So I started practicing mindfulness just to break that pattern of being overwhelmed, but then probably, I dunno how long later, but yes, definitely helped with that. It was life-changing for reducing the stress and the overwhelm and preventing me from getting there in the first place. But then, yes, then I started to have all these other side effects. So the creative thought and the being far more productive. And even with my other role as an events manager, if someone had told me five years ago, if you used to sit there and nothing for 20 minutes, you'll be more productive. I would've been like, I can send entry in 20 emails in that time, yes.
Danielle Lewis (06:04):
But oh my gosh,
Michelle Eckles (06:04):
It really has that really made a difference in all aspects of my life, not just managing stress and overwhelm.
Danielle Lewis (06:14):
No, and it is really interesting. I mean, I've probably not thought about it from a mindfulness or meditation more just I know that if I'm really unproductive, if I'm spiraling, if I can't get anything done, I'm overwhelmed. All that kind of stuff. The only thing that does solve it is stopping sitting there, staring at the laptop, willing myself to work, doesn't work. I do have to go away and go for a walk or occupy my mind with a book. That means I'm not focusing in on problems and solutions and all those things. So I love that idea. If someone had told me all I had to do is sit still but not do anything for 20 minutes, I'd be more productive. It's such a smart way to think about it because I think sometimes when we think about meditation or mindfulness or whatever, even that feels overwhelming. How am I going to fit in this practice? Am I doing it right? All of the things start to show up. But I love that you just said, doing nothing for 20 minutes could change your life. That's so cool.
Michelle Eckles (07:22):
I mean, yes, I love to sit on a pillow with my incense and my, all that sort of stuff and my crystals and for 20 minutes in the morning where I don't do that religiously every morning. And obviously that's great if that appeals to you, but you don't have to necessarily meditate to practice mindfulness. So mindfulness is just about focusing on one thing that you're doing, not trying to multitask, which isn't a thing, it's just focusing on one thing and before you move on to the next thing, because that just is far less stressful for your brain and far more productive. But there's also so many different breathing techniques and a whole bunch of other exercises that you can do that may take one minute, two minutes, five minutes. So rather than getting yourself overwhelmed and thinking, okay, I want to start a meditation practice, I have to sit down for half an hour every day, where am I going to find that time?
(08:11):
It's never going to happen. You fall off the wagon after a week, there are breathing exercises that you can start with just mindful breathing, things like that for five minutes a day is better than doing nothing, and it's better than just doing it once a week as well. So it's all about, it's a little bit like I liken it to physical exercise. If you do say a five or 10 minute walk every day, it's probably going to be more beneficial to you than just waiting till the weekend and doing a half hour walk with your dog.
Danielle Lewis (08:40):
But
Michelle Eckles (08:40):
Also, the longer you do, the more benefit there is, but you still get some benefit out of the five minutes. It's more about building up that bank of resilience and consistency more than duration.
Danielle Lewis (08:53):
And it is interesting too. I always find myself doing something for five minutes. I can kind of get my head around, but then I find once I've got the momentum, sometimes I want to go a little longer. You'd actually then, oh, I'm actually enjoying this. Or Oh, I can see the benefit, or This isn't actually as hard as I thought it would be. And then you'll find that your time might start to increase anyway.
Michelle Eckles (09:18):
It can just be as simple as instead of eating at your desk or eating in front of the tv, just taking that meal away somewhere and just sitting quietly. No phone, no nothing, lunchtime, just go sit outside for five, 10 minutes while you eat your lunch. It can be as simple as that. You're just giving your brain a break and just giving it one thing to focus on and that is eating and that's it. Oh my
Danielle Lewis (09:42):
God, I literally just ate my lunch in front of the television. I'm sitting as you're talking, I'm like, oh my God, why can't I just have peace and quiet for five minutes?
Michelle Eckles (09:55):
Yeah, go back to the dining room, sit there, no tv, no nothing, and just eat.
Danielle Lewis (10:01):
That's so funny.
Michelle Eckles (10:02):
Just give your mind one thing to do. That's it.
Danielle Lewis (10:05):
Oh my god. It could even be a nice opportunity to sit in the sun, get a bit of vitamin D. Exactly. Totally. Get outside and away from tv, phones, all the things, the stress of the house.
Michelle Eckles (10:17):
Yeah, we all say we want to give our brains a break, but half the time it's not all these. Yes, we're being bombarded with external stimulation these days, but most of the time it's actually just our own doing. It's our own doing and it's around our own thoughts that are distracting us, not necessarily other people or other things or technology, and we just have to be disciplined.
Danielle Lewis (10:46):
I love that. So that was going to be my question to you. What are the really tiny actions we can take? So I love that. Eat lunch without distraction or electronic device. I love the breathing exercises you mentioned. Any other little tiny tips that we can incorporate into our day?
Michelle Eckles (11:07):
Yeah, so box breathing. Well, in terms of the breathing techniques too, there's two you could try. So one is just simply breathing in and out through the nose and as you're doing it, you can put one hand on your chest and one hand on your tummy and just pay attention to the movement of your chest and your belly. So again, just one thing to focus on while you're breathing and every time your mind wanders off, which it will, you just bring your attention back to your breathing and back to that movement of the chest or belly. And you can do that pretty much all anywhere, anytime. The box breathing is a really popular one at the moment too. So that's just breathing in for a count of four. You hold your breath for a count of four, you breathe out for a count of four and then hold it for a count of four.
(11:51):
And you just do that a few times and it's a really good transition tool too. So most of the time we just go from doing one thing to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next, and it's like we just leave this trail of everything we've already done today carries onto the next thing. Whereas if we could just do a transition tool, like a quick breathing exercise before you get out of the car as you're entering, if you don't work from home or if you do work from home, if you're going from your home office to the rest of your house, have a bit of a transition tool so you're not carrying through whatever you're doing before to the next thing that you're doing. So any kind of transition tool, any kind of little habit, or it could be listening to a song, it could be something like that just to break up that transition from moving from one to the next. Turning up notifications is a fun one on my it. If you're really trying to work on a project. If I'm working on an event and I have to get my run sheets done, I turn my email, I shut it down, shut my email down, turn my phone, do not disturb, turn it face down, so I can't see the screen too. And just really focus on getting, if you've got a big project to do that's going to take you a couple of hours, it's better just to shut everything else down.
Danielle Lewis (13:07):
I love that because it's, what I find is the getting into it is the hard bit. Once I'm there, I can smash through the task and I often feel like that took me about one third of the time that I thought it was going to take. I just procrastinated for the rest of the time. But if you are kind of not quite into the task yet, as soon as that email notification or text message or something, you just get pulled all the way back to the start you do
Michelle Eckles (13:34):
You think, oh, I'll just answer that one quickly. I'll just answer that quickly. Next three hours later, done.
Danielle Lewis (13:40):
You still
Michelle Eckles (13:40):
Haven't done thing that you trying to do, haven't done a thing that you needed to do. And that where it comes back to as well, setting realistic to-do list for the day for the week is a really good practice of mine to not get overwhelmed to, I used to have these massive to-do lists that weren't achievable, and then I'd be so hard on myself because I didn't achieve them and overwhelmed. Whereas now I've got a overall probably yearly calendar of things that I want to do. Then I break it down into monthly. I break that down into weekly and then I break that down into daily and it might be just one main thing that I want to achieve each day. And then I like to leave my Fridays free so that if I didn't get something done, that's kind of like my overflow day.
Danielle Lewis (14:32):
I love that someone once said that to me about to-do list because I'm a perpetual, I will get this 1000 things done today and then, oh, I did one now I hate myself. But they were like, okay, if you realistically look at it and almost time block it in your calendar, just assume everything on the list takes an hour and then time block it. You very quickly see, you cannot do all of the things on your to-do list. So I do like that piece of advice in terms of really distilling it down into something that's actually achievable. I love getting, it's
Michelle Eckles (15:08):
Getting it all out of your head too, getting it all out of your head and onto paper just to clear that mind and prevent that overwhelm.
Danielle Lewis (15:16):
Totally. I love that. So good. So how do you find the difference in your two businesses? So you've been an event planner, organizer extraordinaire for a long time. Is that your own business or working for other people
Michelle Eckles (15:30):
Or No, so I freelance, yeah, so I'm a freelance event manager predominantly for one company, one lady that I've worked on and off for the last sort of 20 years. Yeah, actually my son just turned 18 and I worked for her before I was pregnant. So I was like, oh my god, it's been 20 years. I would say that I wouldn't be able to do one without the other. So not to the best of my ability. I noticed. So pre covid and pre a couple of years before that, before I started regular mindfulness or regular meditation practice that I probably would've got far more easily overwhelmed and stressed. And I do remember it was an event for Malala Yusef side, the girl that was shot by the Taliban for speaking up on girls' education, and it was probably one of my favorite events I've done. And yeah, I just remember people afterwards just saying, oh, you were just so calm and chilled and everything. And I was like, you know what? You wouldn't have been saying that about me a couple of years ago. So I sort of went from wanting to give that apple together. It is quite high stress to realizing that practicing mindfulness and meditation and having that business has actually made me better at that job as well.
Danielle Lewis (16:49):
Wow, that's awesome.
Michelle Eckles (16:51):
Yeah, so I enjoy it a lot more. I enjoy it a lot more, manage my stress levels and I'm just very organized as well, which helps
Danielle Lewis (17:01):
As an event planner, you would be organized. Yes,
Michelle Eckles (17:03):
You have to be, have,
Danielle Lewis (17:04):
Be
Michelle Eckles (17:04):
Definitely. So yeah, I definitely would say without my mindfulness meditation practice, I would've been a lot more stressed and probably sitting under a table rocking somewhere.
Danielle Lewis (17:17):
Oh my God, yes. Can relate. And so how have you found then, I guess the difference between freelancing and having somebody else there that might be doing the, bringing in the opportunities a little bit more versus having your own business where you've got to go out there and sell and promote and do all the fun business chores?
Michelle Eckles (17:39):
Yeah, the stuff I hate, it's not easy as, and sometimes I do just think, oh, I just want to just pack it all in and go work for someone else so I don't have to worry about all that side of things. I do have a marketing VA now who is absolutely wonderful. So that's probably my biggest recommendation for anybody starting out, especially if you're not a marketer like me, I'm not a marketer. I can do a lot of my own website stuff and all that sort of thing. But yeah, I don't enjoy doing social media, I really don't. Writing newsletters, that sort of thing. I love what I teach and I love sharing it and I see the difference that it makes in people's lives. So in order for me to be able to keep enjoying doing that, I've now handed off a lot of things to a marketing VA based in the Philippines. So it's affordable for me. She just does 20 hours a week, so she's not full time too. But that's enough for me at the moment to really get those sorts of things out of the way and done. So anybody that's trying to do a slash job too, just slash meditation teacher for me, you do fine that once you've done that other, if you have a part-time job, you get home or you finish and the last thing you want to do is work on your own stuff. So
Danielle Lewis (19:05):
Especially when it's the stuff you don't like
Michelle Eckles (19:07):
Exactly, and you're already mentally drained at the end of the day, you're not putting your best work in if you are writing any copy or planning something. So yeah, I'd rather go work a few more hours doing that to be able to pay for the VA to be doing all the stuff that I don't like to do, and which she's a lot better at. She's a lot better at it as well, which obviously you want someone that's going to do a better job than you. And I've been able to train her up on Kartra and all those sorts of things and it's been probably definitely one of the best decisions I've made.
Danielle Lewis (19:44):
That's so good. I love that. And it's actually really interesting. So I was just chatting to another one of the Spark members organized by Adrian, she's a va, and we were talking about how VAs are such a good bridge to potentially your first hire. It's really hard, I think to make the decision to hire a full-time employee. It's such a big commitment and it feels like such a big step, but I actually love VAs for that reason. You can find people that just really good at one little thing that you hate doing, cost effective, and then that is taken off your plate. So I think, yeah, they're getting somebody to fill in. Some of the gaps that we have is,
Michelle Eckles (20:28):
Plus I had just such a long list of things I wanted to do that it was going to take me six months to do all that. So whereas she's been working for me for two or three months I think now, and she's pretty much all caught up in everything. And especially when you do have, you've got your YouTube channel, you've got Facebook, you've got Instagram, you've got LinkedIn, you got newsletters, want to do a podcast as well, you would literally spend ending. It's never ending. You would literally spend 40 hours a week just working on that yourself. And there's
Danielle Lewis (20:58):
A lot of stuff in
Michelle Eckles (20:59):
There not teaching anything.
Danielle Lewis (21:01):
Totally. And there's a lot of stuff in there that you don't add value to. You are the thought leader, you're the content creator, the expert, but when it comes to just making an image or posting something on the platform, that's not where your genius is. So getting somebody else to manage that stuff is such a good idea.
Michelle Eckles (21:19):
And the challenge is too, it's not necessarily being in revenue either.
Danielle Lewis (21:22):
Yeah,
Michelle Eckles (21:23):
Totally. I would rather spend more time focusing on say, Facebook ads that I know are going to bring me in revenue and not so much time on social media and newsletters and all that sort of thing, which I mean, they're hard to track. Well, you're the sales expert.
Danielle Lewis (21:43):
Well, no, I think it's actually
Michelle Eckles (21:45):
Really we have to track.
Danielle Lewis (21:46):
It's so good that you say that though, right? But you still
Michelle Eckles (21:49):
Got to do it.
Danielle Lewis (21:50):
Totally. And I think as business owners we kind of go, well, here's 25 things that I'm supposed to do. But to your point, you're like, I actually know that one is the thing that works for me. So yes, I'm going to spend a little bit of time, get a VA to keep everything happening, but I'm going to focus my attention on the one that I know that really drives ROI for my business. That's just the greatest bloody marketing sales lesson ever. You go do more of the stuff that works, it's not easy.
Michelle Eckles (22:22):
And starting to unfortunately figure out, put myself out there and generate leads for workshops and things like that, that's my task for November, which I think I set myself a year ago, but I'm finally getting around to it this month. Oh
Danielle Lewis (22:34):
My God, I love that. Well, and that would work in with retreats and stuff as well, I assume, because you've obviously got more spaces to fill and things like that.
Michelle Eckles (22:41):
Yes, exactly. So it's working out how to fill those spots really. And the workshops too. So my retreats and my workshops, which are probably my two biggest focus and my biggest money generators. So yeah, they're what I need to be focusing on. Well, I get her to do all the other stuff
Danielle Lewis (22:59):
That's so good. And that's it. And I think you are the one that knows the value of what you do better than anybody else. So when it has to be more of a one-on-one conversation or an email or something, then it's probably better coming from And is that what you
Michelle Eckles (23:15):
Yeah, and it also gives me a bit of a boot too, because I think, okay, well I need to make this much money to pay her every month. Totally. Okay. Get my finger out and get some sales this month.
Danielle Lewis (23:26):
Totally. There's nothing like a looming bill to keep us motivated.
Michelle Eckles (23:31):
Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (23:32):
Oh, that's so good. And is that what you find works well for those higher profile events or retreats is more of like a one-to-one sales outreach? Is that kind of what you find works a bit better or what's your approach?
Michelle Eckles (23:46):
My retreats, it's interesting. So the last one I did, a couple of them came from Facebook ads, which I'd say was probably my biggest generator, but I've got to really think about that now. I have five different retreats, so it's like five different ads sets is going to go up there. So yeah, I'm sort of starting to think a little bit a more old school, I guess. She's designed a flyer for me. My VA designed a flyer for me, which I'm going to print out and take to some local places around the coast where my avatar or my
Danielle Lewis (24:24):
Consultant Ideal client. Yeah,
Michelle Eckles (24:25):
Ideal client, yeah. Might go and shop. Cool. That's one thing, starting to look at those sorts of things. So yeah, retreats, I would say more I Facebook ads, but also a couple of them had been to different classes and that too. So it's interesting. It's like maybe I should just give up that class, maybe I shouldn't focus that on anymore. And then you realize, okay, actually it's those, I dunno if it's still true, the seven touch points, or they have to get to know me before they're going to spend that much money on a retreat and come and spend three days, four days, two weeks with me. Obviously they want to get to know me. So that has been interesting too that sometimes it is that you need to do the little things to get the big things as well. They do need to see you on social media.
(25:16):
They do need to see you teaching. They do need to get to know you before committing to something like a retreat, the workplace workshops. Yeah, I think that's going to have to be more of a, well, definitely needs to be more of a one-on-one, just approaching local businesses. And I like to focus on health sector. So aged care resorts, I wouldn't call them resorts, aged care facilities, mental healthcare workers, healthcare workers, and going into their workplaces and running just 90 minute or a three hour workshop for them on how to practice mindfulness in the workplace for less stress. And so that's where I like to go teach. I feel like they're the stressed industries at the moment and can also benefit from it. So that's my focus at the moment.
Danielle Lewis (26:11):
Yeah, I love it. I'm just always interested because to our point, there's so many different approaches that you can take from a sales and marketing point of view, and different things work, sometimes different things work other times. And it's really interesting, people are always like, what do I do? It's like, well, it's hard to say because you've got to try a lot of things first to figure out what works. And then sometimes you'll be doing that for a couple of years and then you've got to switch up and change again as something comes up. But even like you said, going old school with the flyers, I'm like, I love that because people are all about Instagram. Then there's opportunity over here where people are going, oh, I won't do that. Everyone says Instagram's the be all and end all. But it's like, no, this is what my customer's doing and where they are and what they're seeing. So I think that's so smart. I love that.
Michelle Eckles (26:59):
Yeah, so we'll see how that goes.
Danielle Lewis (27:02):
Report back. I love
Michelle Eckles (27:03):
It. Yes, yes.
Danielle Lewis (27:04):
So good. And I always like to wrap up our podcast with reflecting on your time in business over the years, would there be one piece of advice that you would give to a fellow woman in business on their journey?
Michelle Eckles (27:22):
So I think, yeah, definitely having support if you can't, I don't know many people that could do it or themselves choosing. And yes, you could get yourself trained up, and I've done a lot of courses over the years and trained myself up and have a general knowledge of a lot of things. But I wouldn't say I'm an expert in any of those, obviously, other than what I teach definitely. But from a marketing perspective, budgeting for a team, at least if it's a VA or something, somebody that is, I did use Fiverr in the beginning, spent a fair amount on Fiverr, getting little jobs and tasks done here and there, which was really good too. You could budget, okay, at least I can get that done this week or that done. That was a really good way to start as well. And then I transitioned from there to the va.
(28:16):
But yeah, I think definitely having support around you people that you can go to for social media, website, anything that you don't have expertise in that's going to take you so much more time than if you just paid someone else to do it while you focus on other things. So I guess having that income to support that too. So continuing part-time if you can, but try and drop a day. Try and drop a day. So you would at least have a day or two days to focus on your own business in the beginning, because otherwise you just don't feel like it at the end of the day, and you don't want it to become something that you hate or resent before you've even started. There's no internet overnight sensations. Yeah, there really isn't. There isn't for every successful person you see on the internet, I reckon they've been working behind the scenes for 12 months building their systems and everything, if not longer. It's not a
Danielle Lewis (29:15):
Decade.
Michelle Eckles (29:15):
Yes. Well that's the other thing too. Yeah. So I guess that would probably be my key thing that I would change if I could, is just have a little bit more capital behind me to enable these things to get done properly in the first place so you're not then later on having to go back and fix things or change things for SEO and all those sorts of things. Getting all my YouTube videos all redesigned so they look more professional and
Danielle Lewis (29:46):
Yes, is endless isn't
Michelle Eckles (29:49):
Keywords and all those sorts of things. But yeah, you really need to create a project plan to start a business and just little bit at a time.
Danielle Lewis (29:58):
I love that. I love the trifecta of planning a little bit at a time, dedicate time. So if you can take a day or two a week to actually dedicate it to it and then actually getting support from experts or what have you, I think that that's fantastic advice.
Michelle Eckles (30:19):
Don't spend a fortune on SEO and Facebook ads to start off with. I see some people spending thousands of dollars a month on SEO and I just think, oh my God, they're just being ripped. There's no SEO expense out there. Well,
Danielle Lewis (30:34):
And I think the thing is, in the early days you can do so much yourself. Some of the key, the core foundations of SEO is to have your own content online. So if you think SEO is going to be the thing for you, just start writing a blog and you can do that yourself for free. You don't actually have to get or pay an SEO agency agency. Yeah, I know. I wonder how many SEO people we have, but you can start early. I think the biggest lesson I've learned with SEO is it takes so long. So it's all about getting started early and you can start writing a blog today for free and have content out there around the keywords that you want to, and you know your keywords. If you're a meditation expert, talk about meditation if you're a
Michelle Eckles (31:20):
That's, that's why I called my business meditation Sunshine Curse. I didn't go for anything fancy. So good. I love that. Imagine it was meditation, sunshine, curse. What are you going to Google? That is why I called my business that. So maybe, yeah, that too. Don't try and think of some unique fancy business name that no one's ever going to remember exactly or doesn't have your business name in it. My son at the moment, he's just started a Barbara apprenticeship and he's thinking of names. He can call his little side business from home and he is coming up with all these names and I'm like, you need to have Barbara in the word in the name, because that's what people are going to search. So just have a little think too in the beginning when you're creating your business name and all that sort of thing, have a little think about what people are going to search for before you come up with your business name. I think that's a really important one too.
Danielle Lewis (32:18):
I love it. I love it. Well, you are absolutely incredible, Michelle. Thank you so much for coming on Spark TV and sharing your experiences and wisdom. I really appreciate you. Thank
Michelle Eckles (32:29):
You. It's always fun to talk to you.
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