#awinewith Dr Marion Piper
MEET Dr Marion, founder of Marion Piper Creative.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:07):
Dr. Ma, welcome to Spark tv. Oh,
Dr. Marion Piper (00:09):
What's up? Thanks for having me. I'm
Danielle Lewis (00:12):
So excited to have you here. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for being willing to share your story and wisdom and insights with our fabulous Spark community. I'm super excited.
Dr. Marion Piper (00:23):
I mean, look, she loves a chat, so happy to be here. It feels a bit like a bit of a luxury and a guilty pleasure these days, so I am so grateful that you reached out.
Danielle Lewis (00:36):
Oh, so good. No, I know. I literally say this every episode, but I'm like, if all I did was just talk to amazing women in business, my life would be complete.
Dr. Marion Piper (00:45):
You know what? All this kind of stuff is so simple when it comes down to it and they say, I always get tripped up when they say, do more of what you love, and it's like, no, this is what they mean. It's not about work or money. It's like just do more of the things that make you feel like this if
Danielle Lewis (01:02):
You can. Yes, exactly. And I mean, that's why I always say, if this is all I did, I'd be so happy. But yes, there are unfortunately the things we have to do to pay the bills. Yes. Unless someone wants to give me a billion dollars to sponsor Spark tv, so all I do all day is talk to amazing women. I think that's a good achievable goal.
Dr. Marion Piper (01:25):
I totally agree. Look, there's got to be somebody listening who knows someone who knows someone who has that kind of cash.
Danielle Lewis (01:31):
Yeah.
Dr. Marion Piper (01:32):
I don't ask
Danielle Lewis (01:32):
For a lot.
Dr. Marion Piper (01:34):
No, no, no. Just a billion dollars. That's
Danielle Lewis (01:35):
Fine. Yeah, that's it. Okay. Let's get into it. Otherwise, you and I are just going to talk all day, I feel. Yeah. Who are you and what do you do? Let's give everyone a bit of context.
Dr. Marion Piper (01:47):
Sure, sure. So I'm Dr. Marion Piper, Dr. Maz, and I am a creativity coach and a copywriter. I also do speaking, and I'm an artist, hashtag multi-passionate, creative. Yeah. I've been working, I work a lot with other creatives and particularly startup creative businesses too, around building their confidence around their self expression so that they can actually talk about and communicate those really big grand ideas in a way that's authentic to them. Because if you can unlock that within yourself and you have that passion and that confidence about the right language too, to talk about what you do, it just unlocks so many doors. So I am really passionate about the self-expression piece because words and writing and copy, it's not just about the words, but it's also the intention behind them. It's a lot, and I feel like it's really underplayed, particularly online, the value of copy, particularly in the face of ai, which is a whole other trauma conversation we can have.
Danielle Lewis (02:59):
I think I'm here for it.
Dr. Marion Piper (03:01):
Great. Great. But yeah, so I've been out in business for the last four years, and prior to that I was working in creative agencies. I worked as an art gallery assistant. I worked for an American summer camp. Pretty much I've squeezed the juice out of my creative life as much as possible. And it's very random. It's a very random journey, but it's something that I'm really proud of, and I'm just starting to see how it's all connecting, particularly as I'm in my own business now with that freedom. Yeah, it's been a wild ride.
Danielle Lewis (03:40):
I love it. I love the wild ride because I feel like sometimes people get caught up in this idea that they need to have the right business idea, have the right product, and they're just going to land on that first run. And if they don't have that, then they shouldn't get started. But I feel like it's all of these amazing life experiences that we have that get us to that end goal that ends up changing anyway when we're in business and we launch the first thing and we're like, wow, that's not really landing, or That's not quite, or actually, I hate doing this. I need to try again. So the journey is the best part.
Dr. Marion Piper (04:17):
I couldn't agree more. And it is one that is super creative, and I always talk about, because a lot of the resistance I get from people in business is I'm not creative. And I think that business is one of the most creative art forms there is because you are bringing together so many different things, and I define creativity as connecting the dots in you in interesting ways. And so if you think about it from that lens, of course a business owner is creative because not only are you coming up with an idea, you are trying to figure out how to get it to the right people. You've got to think about how to price it and the quality and how much and how often, and all of those dots when connected together is what creates the business journey. But I think the biggest problem that I see is when people conflate this idea of creativity with artistry, because not everyone's an artist, but everyone is creative.
(05:17):
And I've seen it time and time again when that clicks for people, when they realize that actually I'm the creator of all of this. That in itself is so empowering and it can really give you a lot of energy, particularly when things aren't going the way that you want them to, which I'd say is probably like 75% of the time if we're being honest. And you're right. It's all of it. It's all it that comes together. And I think what makes, at least what I'm starting to come to from my own experience is what makes an entrepreneur, what makes a business owner is actually owning that and owning that you will do whatever you can to make that dream come, even if that is for a little while, you go and take a part-time job, or maybe you work with clients who aren't your dream clients, but they're paying the bills. And so I've sort of developed a much more expansive and robust conception of the idea of business, particularly in the last 12 months when it's been so just literally a dumpster fire for me. And I would love, I want people to just share that journey more like, let's just warts and all. Tell me how bad it is. I want to know. I don't want
Danielle Lewis (06:31):
To know how good it, oh, well, how long do you have? Yeah,
Dr. Marion Piper (06:37):
I want to know the struggles. I want to know the vulnerabilities, because that's how we learn and how we understand what this really means, particularly for people who are just getting into it or about to get into it. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (06:50):
Well, and I think it's so interesting because two things just happened for me there. Firstly, empowering, giving power to ourselves that we are the creator of this business and that we do have, we are capable, we can change, we can be creative and solve problems. And that's super empowering because it makes me think, well, this is mine. Now, whatever challenge I do have, whatever obstacle, I do have the power to think of something different and overcome that. But also, I love where you went with the, let's share the warts and all because you are spot on. A lot of times when we're in that, oh my God, how do I solve this problem? We get into this spiral of, surely this is only happening to me. I'm the only person on the planet that's had a failed launch or a failed product or a failed business, or a disagreement with a co-founder or a employee. That's not quite what you thought they would be, all of those things, but we're not. We're all literally going through the exact same mess together.
Dr. Marion Piper (07:56):
And you've mentioned my favorite trigger word in there, which is spiral.
(08:02):
So my PhD research was in the relationship between post-traumatic growth and creativity. So how we can use creativity essentially to help us grow after trauma. And if you think about it, business is quite traumatic. And when I say the word trauma, I'm really referring to those small T traumas. So it's the little stuff that happens every day, all the things you've just mentioned, they actually can add up and be quite traumatic. And so I have kind of coined this phrase spiral up that we are constantly on this journey. We're constantly on this journey of spiraling up because much the much shape of a spiral, which never returns to its origin point, it just keeps going. We are the same. We are never going to be the same person again. We're never going to have this exact same money or clients or messaging. We're constantly on this spiral.
(08:59):
And sometimes the spiral is really tight and it feels more like a spring and we're just shooting up through the top of it. But more often than not, as you get deeper and deeper into the business journey, the spiral just keeps widening outwards, outwards, outwards. So you actually feel, you might feel like sometimes you're going backwards or that you're spinning on the spot, but we are always, this is why I always come back to him. I'm just on a wide spiral right now. It might feel like it's spiraling out of control, but it just means I'm probably going really way out this way, but way I'm going to come back back because the spiral is constantly in motion. And so are we,
Danielle Lewis (09:37):
Oh my God, I love this. It actually makes me feel like, so I just listened to Amanda Francis. She wrote that rich AF book, and I just watched a video, random video of hers on YouTube the other day, and she said the words something like more and more and more that often we put these caps on ourself. And when you said spiral up, it just linked that to me. With that, we can just be ever expanding. And you're right, it may not quite feel like we are moving in the right direction, but perhaps we are slingshotting around to go further and achieve more and expand or move in a different direction or do something that's a little bit more aligned to whatever it is we're trying to achieve.
Dr. Marion Piper (10:23):
Oh, absolutely. That more and more. That's is beautiful. And the thing with that though, and this is also something that I really, really struggle with. In order to keep going higher, we need to be lighter because as you get further and higher into the atmosphere, the heavier are the harder gravity is on you. So we have to learn how to let go and shed the things that are just not coming with us on that next evolution around. And that could be an identity, it could be a business partner, it could be a team, it could be an idea. And you have all these different levers that you can pull and different, I suppose if you think about a rocket when it shoots up into space, the end thing that ends up in space is this tiny, tiny, tiny little capsule, but it had all this jet fuel around it and all these different things to help it break through the different levels of the stratosphere.
(11:19):
Our spirals kind of the same. There's going to be parts of the fuel we're going to burn through a lot of fuel at the start. And you see this, this is why so many businesses don't last past that first two to three year mark is because they just burn all their fuel out and they use all their good stuff right off the bat, rather than understanding that this is a long game. I'm playing this for life, and I guess we also have time. We have time to figure this stuff out. And that's why I love those moments where the spiral feels really wide. It reminds me that I'm just, I am in it. I'm on the journey just going. Maybe I'm in the middle part of the stratosphere where the air is really thin, so it feels really hard to breathe right now, but at some point I will break through, but it's going to be because I've actually worked through what I need to work through internally and let go of the stuff I needed to let go of.
Danielle Lewis (12:13):
Do you have any advice for somebody who might be struggling to let go of anything?
Dr. Marion Piper (12:21):
Anything
Danielle Lewis (12:21):
That's worked for you to, whether it be the questions you ask yourself or a process you go through?
Dr. Marion Piper (12:28):
Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, those that know me will know. I am a avid freak obsessed journaler. And so I have this ongoing conversation with myself every day around what's happening, how am I feeling? And I think letting go. It might begin as an intellectual exercise. So something might happen and you'll think, oh, this isn't working, this isn't working. But ultimately the actual act of letting something go, it happens in the body. And so there's lots of really beautiful, and this is going to sound super woowoo, but there's lots of really good cut cord cutting exercises. And I find things like where I can visualize anything really helpful for letting go, which makes me feel lighter when I imagine myself either cutting it off or shedding it, or one of my favorite visualizations is imagining yourself in a cool river and the stream is flowing all around you and just little bit by little bit you're just letting go of things. And so you stop sinking and you start floating.
Danielle Lewis (13:40):
Wow.
Dr. Marion Piper (13:41):
So anything that you can do to create, give yourself a visual anchor for letting things go. And also my mo is I go to my trusted business friends and I chat it out because we need to get these things out of our head to make them real. And that's what journaling does. It puts everything on paper and then it's externalized and you can deal with it. Or if you're talking with someone, they will be able to, if it's someone that really knows you and that you really trust and that's really a supporter, they will turn to you and they will literally say, and this is a shout out to my friend Steph Clark, they will say, are we still going to be having this fucking same conversation in another six months? And sometimes hearing that is all you need to go, okay, I've got to stop doing this. Or Okay, I've got to make that decision, or I've got to make that jump because we can't do it on our own. We can't do any of this stuff on our own. At the end of the day, it is just you, but you can't do it alone.
Danielle Lewis (14:42):
And I love what you said about getting it out of your head, right? Because I feel like sometimes when it's inside our head, we do make it bigger than it is sometimes. And look, don't get me wrong, sometimes things are big and we've got lots to deal with, but sometimes the small things get a little bit out of control because we do keep them internalized. And I mean, it's so interesting. I love that talking to a business bestie or a friend or whoever's appropriate. I had this great session. One of our Spark members, Amanda, is taking me through an eq, kind of leadership kind of mentoring thing. And as a part of our session, she did the human design thing. I know I'm so late to the party,
Dr. Marion Piper (15:29):
I love human design. Oh my gosh, yeah.
Danielle Lewis (15:32):
And it's hilarious. Like, okay, so she's like, you're a generator. And she had talked about my decision making and she said, okay, so you make decisions from the gut. And she's like, it's easier if you have options. So if someone said, do you want this or this? You gut will tell you what to go with. But if it's like the possibilities are endless, you can kind of get stuck and not make a decision. And it was so amazing because I've been sitting on a decision and I've been saying, do I want to do, or sorry, I've been asking myself the question, can I keep going? Can I do this? And of course I'm like, of course I can muscle through anything. And then in that session I was just like, oh, do I want to do it? And I was like, no. I immediately knew the answer. I was like, oh my God, I've just been asking myself the wrong question this whole time. And it wasn't until I externalized that and I was just having a conversation and someone was feeding my own bullshit back to me that I realized and I was like, oh my God, I've been sitting on that and agonizing over that for so long and pushing and pushing and pushing when I really don't want to do it.
Dr. Marion Piper (16:40):
I was like, yes, absolutely. And I'm a manifesting generator, which is hilarious. Of course, I am multi creative. The way to strengthen that gut response, which I read, I think it was either in a podcast or I read in a blog, is to and an everyday level, rather than giving yourself those options, you want to give yourself an opportunity to do quickfire yes or no questions. So for example, if you're trying to figure out what to have for dinner, rather than saying, what do you want for dinner? Because your gut will just be like, I don't know, food.
Danielle Lewis (17:19):
Yeah,
Dr. Marion Piper (17:21):
You could try. Do you want Indian or Thai? Still very a bit confusing like, oh, both sound good, but if you go one by one and then just listen for that response or that for me, the way that decisionmaking muscle happens, like a blast of hot air that hits my stomach, it just goes a little poof like that, and immediately I'm like, yes or no. So I'll do that for myself. I'll be like, okay, rather than what do you need right now? It's like, do you want water? No. Do you want food? Yes. Okay. Do you want some toast? No. So it just gets you in the habit of just making those really fast quick decisions so that when you are presented with an opportunity, immediately the muscle strengthens. So you can kind of listen and wait for it. And then if it's confused, then you can ask. If you don't get that immediate hit, it doesn't mean it's a no, but it could just be that you need a couple of other qualifying questions such as, do you want to do this now? Do you want to do this in two weeks? Do you want to do this in a month? The other thing, there's other questions you can use to tease out those things.
Danielle Lewis (18:29):
It's so cool, isn't it? It's funny. I think it just goes back to we don't have to figure everything out ourselves. There is this wealth of knowledge out there in the world that people can help us unlock our own potential. We don't have to sit behind the desk on our laptop working from home muscling through everything when there are these infinite resources that can help us do better in our businesses and experience it in a much lighter and freeing way
Dr. Marion Piper (19:03):
And a much more creative way too. And so I think one of the best pieces of advice I ever received was if you are feeling confused or if there's a lack of quality, it's probably because you need to up the quality of your inputs. So you need to look at the things that you're taking in right now, and if they are not related to what you're doing, if they are too opinionated or if they're too specific, that can also help create the confusion because it's your internal words, world's kind of trying to reconcile all these things that you are reading and seeing while also trying to come to terms with something else. So it creates a bit of tension. So if you can improve the quality of what you're taking in your session with your coach, perfect example of upping the quality. So rather than reading that on a blog, you're actually experiencing it.
(19:56):
So that's an immediate quality up. And it might even just be like, Hey, instead of binging that Netflix show you want to watch, is there a more deeper, more specific conversation you could have with someone about that same topic? So it just gives you, again, we have so many of these levers we can pull to keep expanding the dots that we have to connect in order to create and make the things that we want to make. So that's how I kind of visualize my life as a bit of a night sky is this field of possibility. And on the night sky, there's an infinite number of dots, but there's only a certain amount that I can see based on my position. So if I was to stay where I am, I'd still always see the same dots, but if I start moving around, if I start changing how I'm looking at the sky, then other dots start to appear. And this is what really, and life experience is really what improves the quality ultimately of everything that we create. So lived experience is like numero uno for me, of any kind of advice I give to people, I'm just go and try it. Go and try it. You'll immediately know whether or not you want to do it or not.
Danielle Lewis (21:07):
Yes, I know. And it's really interesting, and I am just thinking about this on so many different levels. I want to ask you about how you, you mentioned that you do do a little bit of coaching for creative businesses and those types of things, which makes me feel like, and this conversation is exactly how I visualized you would be showing up for those people, which is absolutely amazing. But one thing it's just stirring up in me is also I've been noticing a lot lately of women in business not taking opportunities. So kind of self rejecting a little bit and opting themselves out of things before they even investigate what the possibilities are. And it came up a lot in the Spark grant process that we have. So we do this quarterly grant program, and I noticed a few people saying, oh, I'm not x, I live in Adelaide, or I'm not a technology father.
(22:01):
All of these things that kind of opted themselves out of the opportunity without even looking at it yet. And I was like, oh my God. And I was like, cool, spark grants won't be for everyone, but I was like, what are women doing? Are we doing this on all levels in business? Are we just opting ourselves out of opportunities that we haven't even investigated? Because we've just set these boundaries for ourself? And I love what you just said around if you move a little bit and you're a little bit curious, you can start to see things from different perspectives and new possibilities and new opportunities open up. And I just feel like we need to get that momentum. We need to get that curiosity so that we are seeing those possibilities, but we're also seeing in ourself that we can jump on those opportunities.
Dr. Marion Piper (22:52):
Oh man, this is such a million dollar question, but I feel like if we could solve it, women would literally run the world, I think. Okay. That's
Danielle Lewis (23:03):
It. New mission. New mission.
Dr. Marion Piper (23:06):
Oh man. Yeah, I mean for me, there's a couple of things going on. I immediately think of the world we live in and the patriarchy. So pretty much any question to do with women, I'm just like patriarchy.
Danielle Lewis (23:19):
But on a
Dr. Marion Piper (23:20):
More personal level, when it comes to anything new and anything to do with change, our brains are just trying to keep us safe. What I would probably hazard a guess at is that there is some kind of unresolved trauma in someone's past where it can be, and trauma is a spectrum. It's a scale just like anything else. I'm not about the life and death of it all, but like I mentioned, those small T traumas, the little ones that affect you personally, it might've been you could have been up for an opportunity, and maybe in your example of the person who said that, oh, I live in Adelaide, you might've been up for an opportunity in the past and you didn't get it because you weren't living in the right place or you couldn't move or whatever. Your brain has clocked that and said, these kinds of opportunities aren't safe.
(24:16):
They're not safe for me, they're not for me. So the next time you presented, if you don't create a bit of a pause or a gap long enough to actually assess whether this is right for you, your brain will immediately say no, because it's got the past evidence, it has got that negative past evidence. Now, the way that we can work to overcome that, because neuroplasticity, our brain's beautiful, they can change. As we start to build a bank of positive evidence, we look for those ones and we reinforce this as often as we can because our brains change through repetition. So that's why also you might be going for the wrong opportunities because it confirms the fact that you won't have to change.
(24:59):
And it takes a lot of work and a lot of energy and a lot of focus and bucket loads of grit. I'd probably say more than anything else to recognize and go, oh, this is a pattern. And we are all just walking patterns, walking patterns, walking programs. But when it comes to anything new, even specifically in the creative process, so many artists, so many people stop themselves from trying to create the course, trying to create the business because that's going to put them into uncertainty and uncertainty. It's the realm of creativity, but also we have to feel safe in order to create. So there's this really, really fine line between getting into the creative process Once you're in it, it's super generative, but that initial first part where you've got to kind of shunt yourself into it is really scary. And you do have to, I sort of talk about with clients creating these rituals of safety, which are going to be different for everyone.
(26:08):
But the one thing they have in common is it's usually all around the senses. So if you're sitting in front of your computer and the email pops up, it's that really aggressive, immediate dopamine hit. But if we can put ourselves into a place where we've sort of downregulated our nervous system a little bit through music, through a little bit of movement, through smells, sounds, and taste, and we figure out the combination that makes us feel the most expanded, that's the place that we need to go for opportunities from not this hustle, scarcity, I need to get my name out there place. It's understanding that actually I don't need to get my name out there, but I need to make myself feel big enough that I can invite in all those opportunities.
Danielle Lewis (27:00):
And it's really interesting. I love that differentiation between I need to go out and make this happen. And it even feels aggressive saying that versus expansive, I am amazing. I am open to opportunities and watch them flow in. It's just such a more calm and open and expansive way to think about things. And I just feel like it's also inviting in a lot more when you've got that energy of pushing and chasing and aggression. I think other people feel that
Dr. Marion Piper (27:38):
It's not a nice, and it's not a nice vibe to be putting out into the world, but I'm also not saying that you need to sit back and just wait for the opportunities to come to you. No. It's about getting to know yourself on such a deep level that exactly the kinds of opportunities that you want to invite in and the ones that you have capacity for. Because life is all about timing. It really is something that you get offered five years ago that you get offered now, would've been perfect for you now, but it was wrong back then. So again, coming back to this idea of the spiral, just because you miss out on something on one loop of the spiral, it doesn't mean you're not going to get offered it again and again and things come back. This is what I've learned, things come back in the wildest ways.
(28:33):
You might've quit that job 10 years ago and then five years from now, the person that worked in the C kil next to you might be sitting there going like, oh, we've got this great thing, this project we want to run, actually, who I think would be perfect for that. Yes. So I think there's part of the expansion piece is building the self-trust muscle. And I've put myself through the ringer with this for the last year being in that really negative gross, nothing's happening. I'm a failure space. And you have to go through that. You can't not have those thoughts and not have those feelings because when you can actually sit in the darkness of all those huge feelings when you move through them, the lightness on the other side of that, it's like a whole other level. It's like a whole other experience.
Danielle Lewis (29:28):
You mentioned journaling before. Is that the way you got through that? Because I'm actually very interested. I was literally having this conversation with someone yesterday, so in the last few months I've been in the same in that, oh my god, it's not happening. I'm a failure saying all of the words, but so paralyzing and also, what am I saying? I've been saying I dunno what to do. And I was saying to someone yesterday, I'm like, it's so stupid because I literally have a to-do list in front of me that is step-by-step, everything I know I need to do. And yet I'm going, I dunno what to do. And I'm saying that and paralyzing myself and not taking action even though I do know exactly what to do. But yeah, so I'm always interested in how people get through that and what their tactics, strategies, ideas are, because surely to our earlier point, we are not the only people who are experiencing this.
Dr. Marion Piper (30:26):
And I mean this is also the other piece of the puzzle here is understanding how your own brain works. I'm someone who is neurodiverse and there are certain ways around things that just don't work for me. A lot of the business advice out there is designed for neurotypical people and doesn't take into account the horrors that my brain goes through just trying to organize and plan. So I'm right there with you with having the to-do list and still not knowing what to do. And yeah, journaling for me is really helpful because it helps me take out the sting of the emotion of that. I'm never not going to be a sensitive, creative, wildly divergent thinking person. But the challenge is being in a world that doesn't necessarily support that or recognize that as a way of being, it can get really, really rough on you.
(31:28):
And I believe that everyone on some is on that spectrum to some degree. I think the neurotypical idea is eventually going to get phased out, but for me, having a practice where you show up every single day for yourself where you can be as toxic or as loving as you need to be on the day, I think that is what helps me figure out what do I even have capacity for? Maybe the reason that you're looking at that list going, I dunno what to do is actually, I actually don't want to do things in that order, but I actually don't know which is the best order for me. What do I need to prioritize? And so in instances like that where I have a massive to-do list, I'm always like, what is the smallest thing on that list that I can get done right now? So again, it's those little levers, those little qualifying questions. Or it might even be like, what's the one thing that I can do today where when I finish it, I'm going to be so relieved, right? Where's relief, not proud, not excited, but if I get this done, am I going to sit back and just be like, oh, thank God that's over.
Danielle Lewis (32:48):
And sometimes you're right. And sometimes there are things on our to-do list that are hanging over our head, and it's almost like, and it takes us, when we do do them, it takes us no time to actually do them. But the energy that we have expended agonizing over it is just so heavy.
Dr. Marion Piper (33:07):
And this is another little trick I've picked up over the years. You want to figure out where your motivation lies. So we use somebody who is motivated by moving away from a problem, or are you someone who's motivated by moving towards a goal? And if you can figure out that, then you can work out how to talk to yourself. And when you do figure it out, you can see it everywhere. So if I use, say for example, use weight loss as an example, some people it's like, well, okay, why do you want to lose the weight? They'll say, oh, I don't want to feel tired anymore. I'm sick of not fitting into my clothes. I don't want to eat that food anymore. That's very much moving away from a problem. Or some other people, same question, why do you want to lose the weight? They'll be like, I want to run a marathon.
(33:55):
I want to be able to play with my kids when I'm older. I want to be able to run a 10 minute mile or whatever it is. So this is where journaling is also very helpful because if you just allow the words to flow, and this is the step that people forget that is most valuable about journaling, reread it and see how you're talking and pick, see, am I trying to move away from a problem or towards a goal? Then that'll tell you how you can actually what carrot you need to dangle at the end of the day. So if you are someone who's motivated by moving towards a goal, put a treat or a reward that you really, really want at the end of it, that will be, and it has to be something tangible that's usually enough to get me going. Or if you're someone who's used to moving away from problems, maybe you actually need an experience rather than a tangible reward. Maybe it's like, okay, if I get this done, I can have three hours off because then you're problem free and I get to enjoy my time
Danielle Lewis (34:59):
And that's it. Because sometimes, and I do love that, rewarding ourselves with rest and experience is so powerful. But you're right, having the lightness of having done said task that we were agonizing over to actually enjoy the rest and enjoy the time off, I just think there's literally, in my mind right now, I'm like, I know what item it is on my to-do list, and that's exactly what I'm going to do when we finish recording this podcast so that I can, because I've been in my moments of rest. Because also I'm like, you've got to rest to be productive. And I've been not enjoying them because there's things that are hanging over my head and I'm like, yeah, I just actually need to reward myself with that relaxation that will only come from actually ticking off that thing.
Dr. Marion Piper (35:51):
And also too, I think I was talking about this with a friend the other week because there's a lot of different types of rest too. So we were talking about you can Google this, it's like the seven types of rest. So a lot of people, I think, especially business owners who are incredibly ambitious, they really struggle to allow themselves the downtime because they think the not doing anything is counterproductive to business.
(36:15):
But it's about figuring out, again, what kind of rest do I need? Do I need to go and be social? Do I need a physical rest? Do I need a massage? I need creative rest. Do I need to just for me, if I stop and I am still going and I can't unwind, I'm like, I probably need creative rest. So I'll get out a coloring book and just sit there and color in my coloring book, and then I'm still doing something, but my brain is not working, and so that's the kind of rest that I need. And there's spiritual rest. There's a whole suite of them that you can choose from. But I think the thing is too, is getting together a bit of a self-care toolkit when you're feeling good, so that when that spiral gets really wide and you're like, am I sliding backwards right now? You can go, okay, I've done the pre-work. I just need to pick something from this list based on how I feel and based on how I want to feel. Yeah, that's what we need to be our own best friends in business and set ourselves up for success no matter what emotion we're in.
Danielle Lewis (37:27):
I feel like that is just the little cherry on top there, being our own best friend. And then circling back to what we're talking about and tapping into our business best friends, those two sides of things. I just think if we can not nail it, I don't want to use that language because this is a constant journey, but if we can start to explore both of those pieces, really understanding ourself and how we can show up for ourselves, but leveraging our networks and communities when we're struggling to show up for ourselves, I just think that that is so powerful.
Dr. Marion Piper (38:01):
Oh, couldn't have said it better myself.
Danielle Lewis (38:04):
I love it. I love it. Okay. We could talk all day, but let's wrap this up with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on your time in business, what would be one last piece of advice that you would give to another woman in business on her journey?
Dr. Marion Piper (38:21):
Two very, very simple words. Keep going,
Danielle Lewis (38:25):
Oh,
Dr. Marion Piper (38:27):
I love it. No matter what, no matter what, no matter what happens, no matter how hairy it gets, no matter how broke you feel, just remember that it's all part of it. All of it is a part of life. All of it is a part of your journey. The only thing you need to really be responsible for is just keep going.
Danielle Lewis (38:47):
Oh, you are absolutely incredible. Dr. Mads, thank you so much for sharing your journey and your insights and your wisdom and all of the learnings from your years in business. I am beyond grateful for you.
Dr. Marion Piper (39:04):
Oh, likewise. Thank you so much for indulging me.
Danielle Lewis (39:08):
Anytime. Anytime.
Dr. Marion Piper (39:09):
Sweet.
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