#awinewith Kirstin Bouse
MEET Kirstin, Founder of All About Her
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:05):
Kirstin, welcome to Spark tv. I'm so excited to have you here.
Kirstin Bouse (00:09):
Thank you for having me Spark tv. I love it. Why not?
Danielle Lewis (00:15):
Why not? One day it'll be a global talk show and like we just said before I hit record, all we do is talk to people for a living. Wouldn't life be good? Yeah, that'd be awesome. Amazing. Let's kick things off by telling everyone who you are and what you do.
Kirstin Bouse (00:32):
Yeah. So I am Kirsten Baus. I live in Perth, and I'm a clinical and forensic psychologist. I don't do too much forensic psychology anymore. I have been a business owner for a very, very long time. I actually think I got my first A BN as a sole trader in 1997. Wow. Reflecting my age, and I set up a group psychology practice about 18 years ago. And yeah, that's been a huge part of my life. I've been a psych for coming up to 27, 28 years now.
(01:15):
And really it's a cool profession because there's so many different areas of psychology. There's so many different ways to practice psychology that for someone like myself who's an A DHD, it is just impossible to get bored. I actually think if I had, I don't know, if the profession wasn't so diverse and there wasn't so much variety, I'm not sure I would've lasted this long in a profession where it didn't have those kind of elements. Being a business owner also added that interest, and as you know, you're constantly needing to change things and try things and pivot, pivot, pivot is an endless kind of part of business, even more so as time has passed and the world has changed. So yeah, that's kind of a bit of my background, but where I've landed is I have recently launched a new business because, hey, why not? You
Danielle Lewis (02:21):
Don't need to sleep. No.
Kirstin Bouse (02:23):
Yeah. I did also launch and have a business called the Conscious Mother in 2016. I had that for quite a number of years, really worked heavily in the perinatal space, and that was my first foray into I guess providing psychological services in a non-traditional format. So yes, I saw clients individually in my private practice, but with the conscious mother, I did retreats and I also kind of had an online program as well. And then my personal life went a bit skew with and I needed to kind of back and just earn some money in the easiest way, most familiar way possible. So I closed that business. But where I'm at now is we've just launched all about her, the Center for Menopause, and it's a really kind of exciting space to be in, even if it's a very challenging period of life for a lot of us. And it was the challenge that I experienced personally that really got me very, very interested in supporting women through this period of their lives. So all about her really is one of the first businesses that I've had that's really been heavily driven by a frustration with what is and isn't out there based on my own direct experience of that frustration and the frustration of friends, colleagues, and also clients. So yeah, it's a very new gig for me. Lots of fun. It's a big space to be in.
Danielle Lewis (04:07):
Wow. So much to unpack there. I absolutely love it. So take me back when you obviously studied psychology. Did you go straight into running a business or did you work in other people's practices first?
Kirstin Bouse (04:22):
Yeah, so I often call working for somebody else having a real job. Yeah, I know. Which is pretty stupid because running your own business is usually a bigger job. Oh, it's hectic. Yeah, aside, I did have and have had a number of real jobs even while I had my private practice. I lectured at university in the CLINs psych masters programs and things, and I've had other roles, funnily enough, concurrent to running my business. But certainly when I first finished my degrees, I was working actually in maximum security men's prisons, which is where the forensic, I did that for quite some time, moved into doing a lot of work in child protection and also in family court as well. And it was in those kinds of years where I began as a sole trader, but subcontracting to a group practice who also did that kind of work, hence having had the A BN for such a long time.
(05:27):
And a lot of that kind of work in particular can be done. They often get external people to do assessments and appear in court single expert work. It's called protection and family court rather than getting departmental psychologists to do that. And that's largely because there's considered to be a bias in the process. So yeah, I did that for a very long time and I actually haven't done that kind of work directly myself for some time because moved more into the training and development space. So I still support psychologists when they're learning how to do that work. It's pretty stressful work. It's high stakes work, and I really enjoy having that role. I get to use that type part of my brain without the huge implications of doing the work myself. But yeah, I can't escape it because I still have to go to court for matters. That was involved in 5, 6, 7 years ago. I went to court last week for, yeah, so it is hard. I kind of think, God, I'll be still being called into course death for the rest of your life. Wow, that's full on. Yeah. So that took me into the private practice world, but as I said, as a subcontract contractor, that kind of work. And then I had an amazing mentor and supervisor who really encouraged me to kind of stand on my own two feet, and that's when I set up my own little one room kind of place. And then my third son is 18 on the 21st of August. And the relevance of that is I was a couple of months shy of having him when I took on my first subcontractor in my own business.
Danielle Lewis (07:19):
Wow.
Kirstin Bouse (07:19):
Yeah, so it's full circle kind of experience as he approaches his 18th birthday. And I really took on a subcontractor to have some time off work and have somebody else covering the rent really and the expenses that don't go away. And when I came back I was like, well, why would I stop her working for me now? I wasn't full time. She didn't want to work full time anyway, so we shared a room and then from there the practice grew. So I've had up to 18 psychs and three admin, and then also as small as four or five depending on what year it might've been or what stage of the business and my professional interests within that time, I've been able to evolve. I spent, you can't be in private practice without working with trauma. Trauma. I've done a lot of work with first responders trauma, so paramedics, police, military, that kind of thing, as well as birth trauma.
(08:23):
That was my baby, no pun intended, women who'd experienced that. And just over the last probably about the 10, 15 years, because particularly working in the perinatal space, women having babies a bit later in life and maybe their second and third, that's when I started to kind see the perimenopause flavor float through. And when I really started to learn what I could about it back then there wasn't a lot of good information at all. And then of course, my own experience of hitting that stage, which I would say might've been, it's a bit hard to tell, but might've been in my late thirties, early forties. I'm postmenopausal now, but that really took me into the space of menopause and as I said, just becoming so frustrated by the lack of awareness within the community, the lack of awareness within GPS in particular, mine included at the time, and also health professionals in general, including my own profession.
(09:35):
There's just no training for psychs in relation to the impact of hormones on women's mental health, which is crazy, let alone the niche area of the menopausal transition. And all of that just got me really, really frustrated. I thought we have to make it easier for women to find good information and to be able to access a range of health practitioners who are experienced health practitioners, whatever their discipline is, and who have that added knowledge and skill to support women in their discipline, but in the specific stage of life. And that's really where the seed was sown for all about her.
Danielle Lewis (10:24):
And I love the evolution. It's really interesting that it is a journey. You don't just come out of uni and say, this is what I'm going to be doing for the rest of my life. It is lived experiences. It is running multiple businesses. I mean, I love that you said in 2016 you had the course delivery method. I'm like, wow, you're ahead of your time. We're only all in memberships and courses and online stuff post covid now, so that's very cool. But it is interesting. So talk to me about menopause. So menopause perimenopause is a topic that is just, I don't know if it's because of my age that I'm just starting to hear it a lot, but I just am becoming very aware of the impact on women at this stage of our life. So talk to me a little bit about that. So women who are going through hormonal changes, how does it impact women in their day-to-day life, whether it be personal life, professional life, business life, what do you see that look like?
Kirstin Bouse (11:32):
Yeah, well, I mean the first thing I guess I want to mention is that natural menopause tends to begin in our late thirties, early forties. You can certainly begin that earlier. You can actually hit menopause earlier for different kind of reasons and things. Too many to talk about in this chat. So we'll just roll with natural menopause. And I think there's a real misunderstanding that the first signs are things like irregular periods and the hot flashes and the night sweats. And the interesting thing is for most women, those are the symptoms that come later down. The track often starts, and this is where it's really relevant for us as business owners, women with careers, is the brain fog, the memory issues, the changes in mood and an overall kind of recognition, albeit reluctant recognition that perhaps were not quite as capable of juggling the 50 million things that we're typically able to juggle. And they're some of the first signs. And it can get really confusing because I certainly know how much I was juggling in the early stages of my menopausal transition, and I know that I'm not alone, particularly once you add the business owner layer into it
(13:01):
Is who we're speaking to. So you've got a lot of stuff that's going on and it's really easy to confuse that with burnout. And it may be both though, that's the thing I am not saying it's not burnt out burnout. I certainly was diagnosed with burnout and that really kind of in hindsight, I know it coincided with me entering the menopausal years, but there was no recognition of the menopausal component for quite a few years, which I think really created a scenario where I got more and more unwell and yeah, just basically delayed that process of getting back on my feet. I talk a bit about when we don't get accurate, and I'm not a huge fan of always diagnosing things, but when we don't get an accurate diagnosis, it's like we're digging a six foot grave that we've got to crawl out of. Whereas the sooner we get accurate information about what's going on for us and why maybe we've only dug a two foot grave or four foot grave, it's easier for us to get out of it.
(14:16):
So the sooner we know what's going on, the better. And for me, that's why one of the biggest messages I want to share is not to just kind of be thinking that irregular periods and night sweats and hot flashes are the things to be looking out for. Some women will generally move through this stage very quickly, and so those signs might show very, very quickly. But for others, and this transition through the menopause years and then into post menopause, it can take three to 15 years before you actually hit the day of menopause. And day of menopause is the day after 12 months since you had your last period of menopause. The day after that, you are post-menopausal, and then that's where you're at for the rest of your life. Now the average age for an Australian woman to hit that day of menopause is about 51.
(15:18):
If you're thinking three to five years beforehand, you're in this crazy period, which is often referred to as perimenopause where your hormones are up and down. That's why we now know that you can be in your late thirties when this starts because it really can take that long. And that's why in that kind of lengthy journey to the day of menopause, those night sweats and hot flushes and all the rest might come towards the end of it, but the other signs can come a lot sooner. And as I said, we're very busy women. We are holding so much in so many domains of our life that a lot of us probably are burnt out, and it's obviously really important to look after ourselves. And that's really, really difficult because often when you're burnt out, the changes you have to make in your life are pretty extreme. They're not easy to make to properly recover.
Danielle Lewis (16:16):
It's not just having a cup of chamal tea and meditating for five minutes. I used to fix everything
Kirstin Bouse (16:24):
Actually. It's not just going away for a weekend. It's not something that a couple of nights, good night's sleep will solve.
(16:31):
And this is the real challenge and it's definitely the challenge that I had as a business owner. How do I actually, ideally I would've avoided burnout, but how do I recover from this when I've got all of these responsibilities? And I do believe it was delayed because my doctor and my specialist I'd had a hysterectomy, which is I guess another kind of challenge that I kept my ovaries. You don't go straight into full menopause, but you tend to start the perimenopause journey earlier. And my GP and my gyne who did the surgery never told me that I would start perimenopause earlier. And even when I spoke to them about some of the symptoms I was experiencing, they never suggested it. It was kind of my own research and my own epiphany where I realized what was going on. But that was a good four years, I'd say, into the process of being menopausal. And that's why I think overcoming burnout had that added layer.
Danielle Lewis (17:35):
Yeah,
Kirstin Bouse (17:36):
I think it delayed it not knowing and not being able to take the appropriate measures and things. But yeah, I think if we go back to some of the symptoms that I think are most for business owners because they're the people that we're talking to is how do you run a business when you are just simply not as sharp as you used to be where you can't remember things sometimes. I often joke with my friends that together we can construct a decent sentence, but alone we can't because things like word finding is often a challenge. It's that tip of the tongue. I know the words in there, but I can't think of it. And for those of us who have been heavily reliant on our brains and our language, our ability to communicate, our ability to think, problem, solve, plan, implement, all of that kind of function, executive functions, when that starts to be jeopardized, it's actually really quite a frightening, very, very frustrating. It goes on so long that you wonder if you'll ever be the same again, and it does actually impact your capacity to run your business. It certainly did for me. I just didn't have the band.
Danielle Lewis (18:59):
I feel like it's such a confidence dint as well.
Kirstin Bouse (19:02):
Huge, huge. I mean, the amount of times that I, in my role hear from women, where has that woman gone and they're to this path version of themselves who's got a really sharp, quick mind, huge capacity to cope, to juggle, to remember there may be even killed, may not. I mean they may be even killed, but not everyone's even killed beforehand. But the emotion kind of regulation stuff that comes, I haven't been even killed since for a decade since puberty. But the other common experience is the fluctuating emotions because we've got fluctuating hormones, and I've heard this kind of phrase called menno rage, and I have been known as a very even keeled patient person and not so much anymore. I think I've kind of come a little bit closer to what I was certainly not back there. I've got less tolerance for bullshit. I'm way more assertive.
(20:11):
So there's some really cool things that I was just trying to say. This sounds positive. I'm glad we've got a couple of positive things. And there is, and I do want to speak to them, but this period of time, I mean, yeah, I've given people a serve really, really quickly because I've gone from zero to a hundred, some of the trickier stages of this transition. But when you get to the other side, and I think there are some really cool things that are available to us, a lot of women and the research certainly shows that there's quite an evolution in who we are and how we want to live our lives. A lot of women feel, I always liken it to you, are a favorite pair of jeans. So you've had your favorite pair of jeans, you put 'em on, you love them, they always comfy, they always look good, and then all of a sudden those favorite pair of jeans aren't comfortable anymore and they don't look good.
(21:11):
Now some women then go through that, did they ever look good? Were they ever comfortable? And I like to remind them that yes, they were. They did look good and they were comfortable, but were evolving into a newer version of ourselves. And so with that, we need different genes because the old ones felt comfortable then, but they're not feeling so comfortable now. And so there is this real evolution where we, it's not like we totally discard who we were. We tend to kind of keep some of the good stuff and we evolve some new stuff in terms of our identity, what we want from life, how we live. There's a very natural progression and there's a biological explanation that we become more interested in pursuing our own interests. Our priorities start. We start wanting to prioritize ourselves. It can be difficult, still a heck of a lot of messaging that we receive as women that we're supposed to put everyone else first, and we have hormones that support us to do that until those hormones decline.
(22:23):
And when they decline, the biological or evolutionary function they serve, which is to prioritize others, starts to decline. And that then creates this natural, natural movement towards really wanting to focus on ourselves and contribute from what is true for us and pursue our own interests and not be so accommodating. And so they're really, really good things, but it is quite, can be quite a disruptive process. This is when people leave relationships, they relieve jobs, they start new careers, they start new businesses, they do their eat, pray, love if they're going for the whole real kind of extreme vision. And it's challenging because the systems that we live in don't like us to change that much because usually the old version of us helped the system work too Well.
Danielle Lewis (23:20):
Yeah, and it's really, I think the biggest eyeopener for me is the length of time that it takes to go through this process. We are talking about a decade here. It's not a, okay, this is going to be a shitty 12 months, but at the end of it, everything's going to be back to whatever, or you are coming out of your cocoon and you're a new woman. It's like, no, you actually have to go through hell for 10 years to start with.
Kirstin Bouse (23:46):
Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (23:46):
That's ongoing.
Kirstin Bouse (23:47):
Ongoing. And hopefully, I mean, it's definitely health for some women and particularly for some women who aren't able to access the right support, and that's a huge issue for the majority of us. It's actually varying degrees of disruptive, so it definitely impacts our lives. I think a survey was done last year on Australian women, about 5,000 women, and 63% said that the symptoms of the menopausal transition impacted them to a moderate to severe degree. So it's quite a large number and there's things that we can kind of do to best support ourselves. Some of them are easier than others. There's usually no one magic fix despite what some of the messaging is in this space may well be it often. Well, that was my
Danielle Lewis (24:43):
Question. If we're feeling like things are changing and things just aren't feeling right, where do we start in this process to supporting ourselves?
Kirstin Bouse (24:54):
Yeah. Well, I would love to say with confidence, go and talk to your gp, but actually we know that gps at best get one hour of training in the whole studies GP studies on menopause. And so the gps that work in this space heavily in a well-informed, know that there's a heck of a lot of work to do in terms of making sure this information is across and known by all gps. So the bottom line is it's very risky to speak to your GP because the hugest majority wouldn't understand are not up to date just that women receive. It's just how it is, kind of like suck it up, get on with it. Sometimes it's like you're too young to be menopausal. It's just stress. Go and do yoga. Antidepressants are handed out like lollies, and yet they're not the most effective intervention for what we call hormonal depression, which is menopausal depression.
(25:56):
So the lack of information is really, really poor. There's the Australasian Menopause Society. They've got a list of GPS that people can go to. There's a couple of really amazing GP practices, and the reason I'm saying gps I is because what's actually happening is our hormones overall are declining, but they kind of go up and down. We can actually have ridiculously high levels of our hormones in the morning and then they can just plummet, but then overall decline, and it's the fluctuation that actually creates the problem and all the symptoms and the challenges. If we just, I don't know, had this nice little steady, slow decline, it would probably be easier because our brain can kind of adjust. We do another type of estrogen that we start producing that's from sadly enough, our fat, which is one of the reasons why we tend to put on weight, because our body wants estrogen. So it's like what? We can only now create it from having fat, so let's make us fatter. It's terrible body, but if it was this decline, our bodies, we have the capacity to adjust, but it's not. It's a messy, messy process.
(27:10):
And the only thing that will kind of to some degree counter that is hormones, which are now called menopause hormone therapy. So MHT, it used to be called HRT. A lot of doctors don't know the massive advances in research and even in those hormones because body identical. So they're molecularly exactly the same as what we make ourselves. The old form, and I'm talking 20, 30 years ago, was actually hormones from pregnant horses, pregnant mares, urine, yeah, a bit disturbing. And there was a whole bunch of research that came out that was misrepresented that freaked everyone out. We've since debunked all of that. We know that for the vast majority of women, MHT is safe, and for the vast majority of women, it will be effective. It's the degree to which it's effective. Some women don't want to go down that path. And even if you do go down the MHT path, it's still necessary to make some lifestyle changes.
(28:15):
It's still those, they don't solve the relationship problems you had before. Perimenopause. They don't solve the patterns of relating to people and the low self-worth and that stuff does not get solved by hormone therapy. And this stage of life magnifies that kind of stuff big time. So I see a lot of women, whether they're on hormones or not, are really feeling that internal stuff that I mentioned before, maybe complicated by the stress of elderly parents, the stress of teenage kids and what's going on there, a relationship that had a few cracks, but now they're getting bigger life stuff, stress. The pressures were usually at the top of our game by this stage. So we've got a lot of responsibility professionally. They're the things that I tend to see women for because MHT doesn't solve that, but MHT can actually help give you back a little bit more bandwidth that you've lost during this process.
Danielle Lewis (29:26):
That's how I
Kirstin Bouse (29:27):
Explain it. And there's also pretty good research that it helps prevent some of the health issues that are often seen in women over 50, like cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, Alzheimer's, dementia, estrogen in particular is really well known now to be preventative for that. And so taking hormone therapy may well be of benefit to reduce risks there, but it's a very, very individual choice and a very individual experience. I know a few women who absolutely swear by MHT, they took it and they're like A week later, I was sleeping fine again. I could think again. I could remember again, my hot flashes disappeared. I've got energy that can happen. Not as commonly as, yeah, my sleep's a little bit better than it was, and I feel like the brain fogs lifted a little bit and the hot flashes have really reduced or they have disappeared because MHT does seem to be very effective for what they call the vasomotor symptoms, which are the hot flashes and the night sweats and stuff. We're not even yet getting to libido and all sorts of things. It's a big conversation. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (30:46):
No, and I think it's interesting because, I mean, obviously I bring the lens of the business owner, but if you are, business is really hard and really stressful, and the bigger you get, the more challenging it is, the bigger your team gets, the bigger your company gets the right, right. And then if you just layer on this, okay, well now exactly as you said, if you're at the top of your career, at the top of your business or you've decided to start a new business or whatever it is, and then you layer in all of these changes to your body, to your memory, to your energy levels, to all of the things, it's really tough. And I feel sometimes I feel like we would feel very alone. I know when I'm lucky, I've got a very good understanding husband, so when I'm having a mental breakdown, he's, okay, where are we at in the month?
(31:44):
What's going on? He is like, it's all good. We just need a good sleep and everything will be okay tomorrow. But I can just imagine that there's plenty of people sitting here right now going, I am alone and I'm going through this crazy time in my life and I just don't know what's wrong with me. Why can't I do things? It's such an important conversation to shine a light on because you're spot on so different for every person and not talked about openly enough, not understood enough by the people who we lean on our gp. So I think we do have to know that we're not alone, that there is support out there and that this is huge, so it's okay, we can start to find solutions.
Kirstin Bouse (32:31):
Yeah, definitely. And I think it's that unique combination of being a business owner and therefore responsible versus having, and that's not to undermine people who have a job because I know women who've had to leave their jobs because the symptoms are so great and that's terrible. But yeah, when it's on your shoulders, when other people's pay is on your shoulders and keeping this thing ticking over, I mean, I've always been a solo business owner. I've not had a business partner previously, and I think mean it wasn't helped because I ended up during this period of time as well, being a single parent of four teenagers and stuff now teenagers and up to young adults. So I kind of felt like I was running these two really important ships with a lot of people that I needed to care about and be responsible for, and I was doing both on my own.
(33:26):
I've never wanted a business partner more than during that period of time. I really needed to, I mean, I was fortunate. I had supports and things, but I relied on them so much more than I ever, ever had in business during those really, really difficult years. And that's one thing that I would certainly suggest that women do is if they don't have those people in place, is to get them in place. And it may well be, whether it be, I mean, we should all have a good insurance broker, our lawyer and all of those usual things, tax accountant and finance and all of that. But it might well be the time where you really need someone who is more an official sounding board for you and a regular sounding board as well. It might be a time where if you can't get that from the existing people that you need to go and source that specifically.
(34:32):
If you can get it from the existing people, I would like to hope that they understand what's happening for you, that they can support you properly. Because I know a lot of women feel really embarrassed when their brain's not working as well. And when all of these things are happening, you need to have a relationship with someone other than partners or friends or whatever in your business life where you can be truly vulnerable and that you know, they still see you as capable and all the rest, but understanding that this is a transitional period of time and that's bringing these challenges. So I think that's really, really important.
Danielle Lewis (35:18):
I love it. I love it so much. You are absolutely incredible. We could talk about this all day, and we've talked not really about the business stuff, but I do believe a lot of people in our audience are starting to, if not right in the thick of this. So it's such an important conversation to have as women in business. We do have that added layer of complexity. I feel like women in business have so many added layers of complexity, but we'll just throw this one in on top of you. I'm really glad we had this conversation. I'll make sure that all of your business details are linked up in the show notes. So if anyone wants to go digging and start to educate themselves, I know that you've got so many amazing resources on the web, so that is absolutely phenomenal. So I always like to leave our fabulous Spark community with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on your time in business, what would be one piece of advice that you would give to another woman on her journey?
Kirstin Bouse (36:24):
I actually think probably what I just said in terms of making sure that you've got the right people around you. And I think when we think that typically, and also when we're not feeling vulnerable and wobbly like we do at this stage of life, I think that one of those people, yes, you've got to have all those professionals who have their different skill sets, but one of those has to be more of that mentor. You can sometimes find that in a business coach, some business coaches have a very structured process though, and so you may not have that sounding board opportunity, and I think that's really important. So wherever you can get that from, then that's where I think you need that and that even more so when you are leading into this period of life, because I can absolutely. I mean, I think most women business owners cry from time to time because it's just so bloody difficult and we rant and all the rest.
Danielle Lewis (37:20):
Yesterday I cried
Kirstin Bouse (37:22):
Yesterday. Well, the ante is up on that. You do that a heck of a lot more and you feel quite overwhelmed quite often. I think. So, yes, that person, whatever word you want to use to describe it, I think is really critical. And not just your partner. It has to be someone separate to the business and separate to your home life, I think is really critical. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (37:49):
I love it. I couldn't agree more. I think that we really need people in our corner who understand what we're going through. And you're right, sometimes you don't want to have those conversations with people in the business or in the home. So amazing advice. I absolutely love it. Kirsten, you are fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing your business journey and all of the menopause goodness with us today. You are incredible. Thank you so much for your time.
Kirstin Bouse (38:18):
Thank you for having me. It was fun.
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