#awinewith Katerina Ali
MEET Katerina, founder of Immersifi.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:05):
So good. Katerina, welcome to Spark tv.
Katerina Ali (00:09):
Thank you for having me.
Danielle Lewis (00:11):
I am so excited to share your story with our beautiful Spark community. Let's dive straight in and tell everyone who you are and what you do.
Katerina Ali (00:20):
I'm Katina. I am the founder of a company called Immer. Sify, which is a VIP membership loyalty program that we are creating Yes, in the luxury space in that contemporary luxury space.
Danielle Lewis (00:36):
Oh, amazing. So is it launched yet or are we building in build phase?
Katerina Ali (00:42):
We're in build phase. We are just about to launch the MVP and, well, sorry, we're almost finished. The MVP, we're almost ready to launch our beta testing, so it's exciting.
Danielle Lewis (00:57):
That's so exciting. So what made you start this? What made you start a loyalty program?
Katerina Ali (01:05):
So I've been around, okay. We all found something in Covid and I was really deep into crypto trading and all of that back then. Oh
Danielle Lewis (01:16):
Wow,
Katerina Ali (01:17):
Cool. Oh, there's so much more there to talk about as well. It all started from stocks and then I was educating women and making sure we have our own money, all these just educating about finance. And then I went down the crypto rabbit hole and then I'm like, hang on, what does this stuff do? So then I was learning all about that and then I was going through learning blockchain, learning NFTs, learning, all of that. Then Covid finished and I was out shopping and I grew up in the fashion industry. I remember laying on a floor of my grandmother's shop watching her drape women in these most amazing fabrics and create things, and it was just so I grew up in this environment. I haven't always worked in it, but I've always had either a side hustle or something in fashion, just always a love for it.
(02:10):
And I went back to my absolute, one of my favorite stores to shop at all the time. And I've walked in and like, oh, I'm backwards shopping. This is something I can try it on. I can touch, I can feel again. And as I've gone to buy something like where is everybody? And I've gone to buy something. She has fish up with us before and I just went, oh, I'm a VIP member here. Not that. That's the only reason I'm a V IP is because I've spent a lot of money. It's not because I'm anybody special, it's just because I've spent a lot of money and the girls, I built this great relationship up with the girls and they used to call me and go, Hey, we've got a new collection now I know you work in the head office, pop over. I've arranged it. Let's do this. We want you to see the collection first. Maybe do some
Danielle Lewis (03:04):
Katerina Ali (03:05):
If you want. That's fine. Oh, this is coming in ka. We know you've got those pants that skirt. This will look great with it. That was all gone.
Danielle Lewis (03:13):
Yeah. Wow.
Katerina Ali (03:16):
And I walked in there going, I would've spent a hell of a lot more money as we do when someone's there with that relationship
Danielle Lewis (03:24):
Loving on us. Yes. That's my love language. I'm like, take all of my money. Just pay me attention.
Katerina Ali (03:33):
Also, what occurred to me was that the big thing was when she said, have you shopped with us before? I could have been anyone giving my details to them. I could have been giving my friends details to get my discount. So the brand loses money that way. And I'm like, I didn't get the shopping experience I'm used to. I didn't got my discount, but I could have been anybody. The brands are losing out, the customers aren't happy. There's a shift cold, massive cultural shift coming with these next generations. Something's got to give. And that is my why. I started, it's a bit of a long story, but it was just that passion of going, oh, and I've walked back into that store not that long ago and it was exactly the same thing. I'm like, okay, yep. And every store next to it, I went, I'm like, you guys used to know me. We used to walk past, hey, whether I was a big spending customer there or not, and we're not talking like Louis Vuitton. We're talking contemporary level facts. And that's where I've gone, okay, so these guys need help. This is what we need to, and it was over a year of market research and product market fit. And it changed so many times as it does because well, there's no use of me trying to build something if it's not going to work out there. Exactly. Then it's quite large now it's like four or five startups in one, but I feel it necessary.
Danielle Lewis (05:18):
Well, it's really interesting that that's the backstory because so there's something going on where I live at the moment, and they're saying that the retail precinct is down like 50% year on year. They're having a really hard time. And then you think about the consumer experience and you think, well, why do I want to go in store when I can sit on the, if you're not going to treat me any better, I can just sit on the couch and order it straight to my door. And that experience is almost better because I get free samples. I do get a loyalty program in some places the retail sector does need to change, does need something to reinvigorate it. So this is exciting.
Katerina Ali (06:03):
It's so exciting. So the other thing was I had to wait as well to earn that membership because not everyone knows there's that level, there's programs and then there's this level of membership that you are invited to. And I have been into stores where it's not on how much you spend if the sales person thinks you are good enough.
Danielle Lewis (06:30):
Wow.
Katerina Ali (06:32):
So that still happens. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not having that. So how it all developed and how we got the Web3 thing involved is you can buy the membership. There's still the earn aspect of it. You don't want to take, not everyone wants to go spend their money straight away, but we are living in an attention deficit economy these days. We want things instantly. We want instant gratification, so let's let you buy in memberships. And a lot of the top large retailers overseas did have that. They just weren't doing it well. So I studied what they were doing, what was going wrong there. Yeah. So you have these different levels of memberships to offer you and you can keep earning to get levels up as well. So that's the tech side and the digital side of things. And if you are not happy and that brand is not keeping you warm and fuzzy, you can go sell that membership and get wow back to the, sorry, and a portion will go back to the brand because they are investing in it. But you can get a lot of your money back. So yeah.
Danielle Lewis (07:47):
That's so cool. And so is the Web3 element, the, what's the word that I'm looking for? The verification of making sure that it's you as the person with the membership?
Katerina Ali (08:00):
Absolutely. What the benefit to the brand is then ultimately. So what will happen is you'll have your app and you will let the store know you're coming in and you can go, okay, I'm coming in. You've got my sizing. You know what I am, because we're actually going to be including an AI body scan and all that. But that's sort of down the road a little bit. That's another, but so you've got all that. I feel like being pampered today, I'm looking for an occasion dress or I'm looking just to see what you've got or whatever it might be. I'd like
Danielle Lewis (08:35):
A glass of champagne, please.
Katerina Ali (08:37):
Absolutely. Absolutely. So then the store gets an alert. Kate's coming in, she'll be in at about 10 30 or she's in, you know what, she just happened to be walking past. I'm coming in, I'm letting you know I'm in because I'm earning points now too, by the way, because I've come from the door.
Danielle Lewis (08:55):
Cool.
Katerina Ali (08:56):
A sales associate goes, now they could never have met me before. It doesn't matter. Katerina's in store, she's a level, whatever it might be. Hey Katerina. Oh, so I see you after this. Great. What do you need? Champagne or coffee? Where are you at? So all this will be on a profile that I filled out because, so I'm giving my data, I'm consenting to give my data, it's my data, but I'm giving that to you to look at. I don't walk in. There's things we won't ask for. I don't walk into a store saying, hi, I'm Katerina. My date of birth is this and I live at this address. Don't need that. Don't need that. So yeah, so that sales associate knows you already, so makes their job easier. They get to spend more time pampering you, which is we end up spending more money and then the brand in head office gets to know you better.
Danielle Lewis (09:51):
Wow.
Katerina Ali (09:53):
Get dwell time. They get what's this person about? They get, oh, Carolina's always bringing Stephanie in with her. She's an aspirational. VIP, she's an aspirational customer. I'm as a sales associate, I'm going to look at her as well and let's see what we can do. Because she's always coming in with Kettering. Let's see what we can do for Stephanie as well. Because the aspirational clients or customers are the ones you want at that next level because 80% of revenue comes from 20% of your customers. So you work on those aspirational, your revenue, you won't have all your eggs in that one basket. This
Danielle Lewis (10:33):
Is so cool. So you said you were in finance before this, is that correct?
Katerina Ali (10:39):
I am that person that's always had a side hustle. Love it.
Danielle Lewis (10:43):
I love it. Same.
Katerina Ali (10:47):
I dunno what it is. It must be, and I didn't realize I was an entrepreneurial spirit, had that entrepreneurial spirit until I look back going, oh, I've always had a side hustle. I've got 25 years of marketing,
Danielle Lewis (11:01):
Cool
Katerina Ali (11:03):
Experience, executive management experience. I have helped run $30 million companies. But a startup is a whole other level. Oh,
Danielle Lewis (11:12):
It's a whole new ball game, isn't it?
Katerina Ali (11:15):
It's amazing. But with the finance side, I saw too many friends being unhappy marriages and not being able to leave because they never knew about money. So that wasn't my sole purpose. I saw that. Then I saw the stat of women, I think it was women at the age of retirement have 42% less super than men. Now we have babies. Pay parody is a massive thing. We're the first to give up work to look after elderly parents. We're that sandwich generation, the kids and the parents sort of thing. And yet what are they doing about it? They're not doing anything about it. So it's not about leaving your husband. It's like, well, I don't know what's going to happen, but you know what? I want that money in my accounts as well. So I feel okay, I'm never going to leave my husband, you're never doing it so you can leave, but I'm okay. And then if I want to go and buy that $5,000 handbag, I better have 20,000 to put in it as well. And it was teaching about investing, not trading because there was a little bit of that and teaching them to look and how and where to look at investing. And it started off with stocks and then with crypto as well. It was all teaching them about that. So that was my finance side.
Danielle Lewis (12:46):
I love it so much. And it is so important. I think in parallel, that's my mission here at Spark is because you're exactly right, women can't leave circumstances if they don't feel financially empowered. And the way I do it is through, excuse me, teaching business ownership. So I teach women how to start their own businesses, grow businesses so that they do have financial freedom. So I'm so aligned with that mission of teaching women how to educate themselves and empower themselves through money. I think it's really important.
Katerina Ali (13:22):
That was blew my mind.
Danielle Lewis (13:24):
It's shocking, isn't it?
Katerina Ali (13:26):
Yes,
Danielle Lewis (13:27):
I know. It's not good. And you mentioned that, so 30 years running, so in marketing, running massive companies, but startup is totally different. What have been some of the big challenges that you have come across? Building your startup
Katerina Ali (13:45):
Up, doing everything yourself. Doing everything yourself, and you have to, it took me a while to learn, but to come in and go, this is new. I am like got this experience and so I'm yay. No, but it does come in handy in certain aspects. But you are there because my biggest thing was I didn't want to just run out and get VC funding or do all of this. We have been self-funded and now, so we really have really have just, what's that word I'm looking for with
Danielle Lewis (14:32):
Bootstrapped?
Katerina Ali (14:34):
Bootstrapped. Bootstrapped. Yeah, bootstrapped. Because you are more appreciative of every dollar and where things, and you really look at how things are going to be spent. And I think that's where my experience has come in. I also went, okay, I acknowledge the fact that I dunno what I'm doing at some point and I need to go and ask other women because I have been surrounded by men. I've always worked with men. I have no problem. They've always supported, but sometimes we just need to ask another woman because it's okay. We feel a bit funny asking men and that was me. That could be my age, whatever it might be.
Danielle Lewis (15:20):
No, I agree. And there are a lot of women who have done amazing things and are so forthcoming and willing to help.
Katerina Ali (15:30):
Do you know what, especially when you're in that startup and entrepreneurial space, women are out there going, what can I do for you? They are their open arms and it is such a force to be reckoned with. It's amazing. So from the very beginning, I treated it like that. I already had the business. I set it up with a board, I set it up with, the way I set the company up was because in a year's time, when I do go out for big VC funding, I want to make sure that I've got all this set in place and all this. So I set it all up. And that was my biggest lesson, especially from the beginning going, don't just run in and do it. And also because I waffle a lot,
(16:16):
I love blah blah chat. I had to really reign in my messaging and I went to and accelerate. I've done all these things to go, okay, I need help here. I've got all that experience in marketing. Yeah, sure I do. But again, it's different when you have that emotional attachment to it. So my biggest thing was going out for help, always asking for help and not being afraid to ask for help because that was something I had in the very beginning as well. And approach everything. You're new, leave the ego at the door leave. I think that was, oh, it still comes back sometimes going course I know it. No, yeah,
Danielle Lewis (17:08):
That's right. I know what I'm doing. Everything is fine.
Katerina Ali (17:12):
And when people ask you something and you don't know and you try and rattle it off, it's like, no, don't do that. Just say, I'll get back to you or something like that. So
Danielle Lewis (17:24):
I feel like we're from the generation that you're supposed to know everything. I was saying this to somebody yesterday, I'm like, especially about being positive in my day you were positive. You always reported well to the shareholders and the board and everything's happy days. No issues. No issues, no issues. And now we're all about it's okay to show your failures and it's okay to show this. And I'm like, I do not want to do that.
Katerina Ali (17:52):
I think if we acknowledge our failures, it's really good because then it's like, okay, but that didn't work. Why didn't it work? Why are we failing? Was it me not listening to people? Was it me getting bad advice? Was it me not understanding things? And so acknowledging our failures, that's definitely a major.
Danielle Lewis (18:14):
It's hard though. It's so hard. I just want to be perfect at everything. Absolutely. I know. It is good though. I do reflect on other women in business that I follow who are super authentic and vulnerable and sharing and open. And I do think, well, I know that's helped me on my journey listening to them and their experiences. So I need to give back and share my experiences more authentically as well.
Katerina Ali (18:44):
Yeah, that's so true. That's what we're there for. We want to share and help others. And that's what I remembered going out to people going, if someone asks me for something, I'm the Of course, of course I'm going to help. So a lot of other people are exactly the same.
Danielle Lewis (19:02):
And I do love that about women. We are so willing to help each other and support each other and pass on resources or contacts or whatever we need to help somebody else succeed. It's beautiful.
Katerina Ali (19:17):
Absolutely.
Danielle Lewis (19:18):
So what's next for you? You mentioned you're just about to move into beta launch. What does that mean for the business? What will you be doing now?
Katerina Ali (19:27):
So first, whilst we're about to go in, I actually only put it out yesterday to the community to go sign up. Yes,
Danielle Lewis (19:37):
Cool.
Katerina Ali (19:38):
Some beta, beta testers. But so what we're going to do is also give five memberships away as well. For anyone who is part of the testing period. And for the brands, we are going to give two brands a one year free Aerify app, the basic app, because without them giving all that feedback and having that knowledge, then you're not going to get a successful, you're not going to have a successful app or platform. And that doesn't help anybody. So that's why it's not a gimmick to, oh, let's give it away so we get more people. No, it's actually come in, we want to incentivize you because we really want your feedback. So building that community there. Unfortunately the main brands want a finished product. So they've gone out to approach the brands with probably not as many doors as what these other bigger ones have got. One, the brands said to me, I just lost thousands of dollars on a sale because that sales associate didn't know that that was a VIP. And they spent $5,000 every time they come in. And I'm like, oh, well, do you want to test really? Like, no, just give me the finished product. I want the finished product. So we've had a lot of that.
Danielle Lewis (21:11):
That is a really hard thing about tech startups especially, is that, yeah, you are right. There are a certain type of customers who are open to a little bit warts and all because they want to be a part of that build process and they want to give feedback and they want to support you. But then there are a lot of people who are like, no, show me when it's done and then I'll buy it and that'll be great. They're just not that way inclined. Especially some traditional industries where kind of fashion, where they're just used to, this is the way we work, this is the way we operate. They're not kind of used to that tech mindset that is a little bit more optimized, build feedback, kind of more of loop
Katerina Ali (21:51):
And that going okay, it may not finish the way it started, and that's okay. We've seen massive brands do that. We've seen Louis Vuitton change, we saw Porsche change, we saw, we've seen, and that's what innovation does. Unfortunately, some of it has to go overseas for the brands because there are different countries that embrace the tech and innovation quicker. And that's fine. And I think diversity in thinking is what's needed. Obviously being Australian with a European background, but born and bred in Australia, that's where I want to grow it. Unfortunately, we do have a little bit of a wall when it comes to innovation, even with our government and all that support that you get so overseas. But that's okay. I still want to, would like to birth it more in Australia, but I will be getting all over in especially the UAE and Korea and obviously the US and everything, just to really get all those, that different mindset on everything as well. So
Danielle Lewis (23:14):
Wow, such an exciting time. I love it so much. So on that note, I always love to wrap up our podcast with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on your time in business, what would be one piece of advice that you would give to another woman on her journey
Katerina Ali (23:33):
If she's in it, the beginning of her journey? Don't be afraid to ask for help. And I think we've mentioned that a lot, but know that things change, be adaptable, prepare to pivot. But if you are really set on something and you've got a belief in certain areas, sometimes you have to stick to it. And I know it's a bit of a
Danielle Lewis (24:02):
Contradiction. Yeah,
Katerina Ali (24:03):
Contradict itself, oh my goodness, what's going on today? It does contradict itself, but you've just got to trust your gut. And what your gut is, is your heart and your heart actually has more energy in it than your brain. And I know it's getting a little bit deep, but that's why our emotional, our emotions can be so much more powerful because it knows more than what our brain does sometimes. So if you are really feeling like, no, this is something, I know there's a gap there. I know this is a problem to be solved. I know this is going to work, then go for it. Don't regret anything.
Danielle Lewis (24:41):
Oh, you are amazing. I could not agree anymore. Katerina, thank you so much for your time today. I've absolutely loved the conversation. So many good nuggets in there. You are incredible.
Katerina Ali (24:55):
Oh, you are amazing too. Thank you so much for having me, Danielle. I really appreciate it.
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