#awinewith Harriet Mellor
MEET Harriet
Harriet is the Founder of Your Sales Co.
Find Harriet here:
Your Sales Co website or Instagram @harietsalescoach.
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:09):
Perfect. So God, Harriet, welcome to Spark tv.
Harriet Mellor (00:13):
Thank you. Thank you, Danielle.
Danielle Lewis (00:15):
I'm so excited to have you on. You were mentioned in another podcast recording that we did, so I was so glad to be connected with you so we could talk all things sales. I mean, I'm sure we're going to talk business and things, but I'm obsessed, so I'm super excited to talk to you because I know in the other podcast it was quite a breakthrough. So I'm so excited to share your story with the Spark community. So thank you for being here.
Harriet Mellor (00:42):
Thank you for having me.
Danielle Lewis (00:44):
So let's get started with just telling people by what it is you actually do.
Harriet Mellor (00:49):
Yes. So I'm a sales coach and consultant, so I get to talk about sales all day, which is my favorite thing to do to a lot of people. They'd be like, that is the worst job in the world, but I'm so happy that that is what I get to do. What is a sales coaching consultant? I go in and transform businesses through sales ultimately is the opportunity. I've been in sales for about 17 years. For the last 12 years, or maybe for about approximately 12 years I've been in ICT and cybersecurity sales. And then that really makes people switch off. So if I say I'm in sales, they're like cool. And then I say cybersecurity and it, and they're like, oh, okay. Oh, there's my friend. Let me go and meet them. Somebody's
Danielle Lewis (01:29):
Calling my name across the room. I love it.
Harriet Mellor (01:35):
Yes, but I make sales fun. So I mean, if I can't have a conversation and at the end of it someone go, this was really interesting or I learned some cool things about sales, then I'm not really doing my job properly. So that's ultimately what I get to do every day.
Danielle Lewis (01:50):
I love it so much. So how did you get into sales then?
Harriet Mellor (01:55):
Oh, kicking and screaming.
Danielle Lewis (01:57):
Yeah. Most people,
Harriet Mellor (01:58):
Yes, most people, and I think I say this on most podcasts or whenever I get asked about how I got into it and I was like, you know, sit in a room and the trainer goes, put your hands up if you want to be in IT sales and everybody laughs. That was my entry into sales, but I was an events planner. That was what I always wanted to do. It was the dream. I mean glamor and organization, which is again, sales and organization are like my two favorite things. So I get to do all these cool things, but it actually was quite boring. It was the same thing. Day in day out, I ran a national events arm for a business. So I drove thousands of miles across the uk. I saw some awesome places, but it was the same thing. Lugging boxes in and out of venues, sweaty, dusty, kind of very faceless options.
(02:47):
So for me it wasn't really working. I did that for about four or five years and then I went to go and work for a tech company and very Google asked, can you come remember the events internally? I had an unlimited amount of, and we hired out cinemas and we hired people to come and dress up the characters from the film. And so it was very cool and that was great. But the CEO EO saw in me what I had resisted for many years, which was a salesperson because I'm a connector. I think that's the clear distinguished point was that I connect people very well. I connect problems with outcomes. I connect people with people that I believe will get on or connect or learn from one another. And he saw that in me and I was like, absolutely no way. I just did not want to be a salesperson. I mean, could you imagine being introduced? What do you do in sales? I just would not want
Danielle Lewis (03:35):
That. You would turn and run. People literally turn and run and
Harriet Mellor (03:37):
They'll be like, oh, you are that person. Like, oh, sleazy, yes, I get it. And so it took me a little while, but what for me, I turned a big corner in my sales identifying what sales actually can do when I was working at an IT company and I started to see the transformations we were having for clients. And at that point I was like, hang on a minute, do we just do that? And as soon as I started connecting the dots between what our clients and these were big clients in the UK having massive issues, and it was back when it mattered where you were hosted. So if you had a website and you were based in the UK and you hosted it in America, it was having to go from the UK to America and back again. And that time and that delay was impacting sales and we were removing that problem.
(04:22):
So as soon as I saw that coming together, I was like, hang on a minute, we do that, we transform that, we create that outcome. Why are we not ringing everybody in the UK and telling them that this is something that we can do? And at that point it wasn't let me get on the phone and sell to somebody. It was like, I know a hundred companies that need this and without it, they are at a disadvantage against everybody else. So for me it was that turning point. And so now when I work with my awesome clients, I'm looking for that golden nugget. I'm looking for the transformation, I'm looking for that success piece that I can say, okay, do you know that by doing this and by doing this and bringing 'em together, this is the outcome you can support. And I've not even said the word sales yet. So that's for me was where the transformation point came. And that was about 17 years ago.
Danielle Lewis (05:13):
Wow, that is incredible. And it is so funny, isn't it? I think I work with a lot of business owners and specifically female business owners and just the idea of sales, just people are kicking and screaming. But one of the things that I love that you said was if you are not telling people about the transformation, so you were just saying about how that tech company that you worked for really had the ability to change the game for some of the businesses that you connected them with. And that's what I like about sales. It's like if you are not telling people like your potential customers about the problem you are solving and about your solution, you're actually doing them a disservice.
Harriet Mellor (05:54):
A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And again, and I had this conversation yesterday with a client and a new sales team, and again, coming back to if you want to tell somebody something about the transformation, ask them a question first. Ask them what are you trying to achieve? And then when they say this, they awesome. How are you currently doing that? How do you feel you are achieving that? Okay, get them to tell you what it is that they need. And you go, okay, how about if I could get you to this point without this pain, how would that feel? They'd be like, I would hug you, or I would jump for joy, or whatever that would be. It'd be like, that's not possible. It's like, well actually it is, and here's how. So by asking questions, you get them to tell you what you need and you go, okay, how would this look and how would this feel? And how would this transform your life or your business? They're going to tell you whether you can sell to them or not. And we're not then going to go, okay, now we're going to turn on our sales voice and then we're going to say, this is what we do. We're just going to have a conversation. If at the end of it they're not a hell yes, then we haven't done our job properly or they're not our ideal audience and we're not going to sell to them.
Danielle Lewis (06:59):
Yes. And that's okay. And not everybody will be your ideal customer. And that doesn't mean you won't be successful.
Harriet Mellor (07:06):
No, absolutely not. Because all that means is that again, your friend or their friend of a friend goes, oh, I need some sales training or I need this insert service or product. And they go, oh, I spoke to this really awesome woman the other day and it wasn't quite a fit for us because she does this, this and this. Why don't I put you in touch with her? And that's what ends up happening and with, they don't need it right now. They might need it in six months in a year. I have clients that come to me two years later. I remember in it specifically with cybersecurity, I had someone come back to me after two and a half years. I didn't waste every minute of every week calling them. I just had great conversations, meaningful touch points. And then when the time was right, they thought of me, they didn't think of anybody else. They thought of me.
Danielle Lewis (07:50):
Yes, I love that. And you're so right, you started this conversation by saying how you made sales fun and having great conversations with people is fun. The stigma around sales is like you've got to have this crazy strategy, this crazy process. You've got to really almost trick people into seeing your way. But I love that. Just have amazing conversations with people and let them tell you whether you can sell to them. That is incredible. It's genius.
Harriet Mellor (08:23):
Genius. Exactly. It's unlocking that door. And then once you've got that, you are unstoppable because you can see the possibility, you see the process, you see the steps, you've just got to do it now.
Danielle Lewis (08:35):
Yeah. And do you think that there's much of a difference between, I know that you've worked with some really high end enterprise clients. Do you think that there's much of a difference between say, startups, small businesses and those bigger corporates when it comes to the sales process
Harriet Mellor (08:51):
Process? Not so much mindset. 100%. Talk to me about that. Yes. So I'll talk to you about two things. This one is men selling is one thing. Second is the way that we think, and that's our mindset. So firstly, I'm just going to say about men. I work predominantly with men. They're awesome. Okay? I love working with men and women. Totally different skill sets, different perspectives. Men are unapologetically ambitious. They are unapologetically confident. I can do a lot with that. I can be like, I ran them up and off they go and they're like this, my goal for the year is $200 million. And I'm like, sweet, fabulous. And then I speak to my female clients who are, let's say that's an enterprise client. Let's then say then I've got a small business thinking, I just want to hit 10 grand. It's all I want to get this year 10 grand.
(09:43):
And I'm like, okay, you could easily do a hundred grand, but okay, we'll start with 10 because a hundred grand is going to scare you. So we come in at these different scales from that mindset perspective, all the men are doing is going well, I've got this behind me and whatever I say I can achieve. And it's that approach, which is awesome, and I wish more women had it. And that's an empowerment mindset, confidence piece, especially when we're selling ourselves than our own product. That comes from a different perspective. Then when we talk about the mindset piece, and actually it was funny, I was talking about this with a friend the other day because I said, I am effectively a small to medium business. I'm not a startup. I wouldn't, but I think an enterprise business, you say to me what you do on that, I think like a 200 billion business because what's the difference?
(10:31):
Exactly, yes. Nothing is the difference. So if you are a startup or a small business and you want to sell like a $200 million company, there's no difference between what you're doing actually. Sorry. That's right. The only difference is, is that you may have more brand awareness. You may not. You may not. I've worked with businesses that have scaled to 8 million in the first year. That's achievable. It doesn't mean the market knows who they are, it just means they've got more stories, they've got more credibility potentially in that market. All you need to do is have 1, 2, 3 sales conversations or closed sales. You've got a fleet of stories that you can go out and talk about and all the differences is the enterprise go, I've got this massive brand behind me, I'm going to go for it. Small businesses go, you probably dunno who I am. So I'm going to start off by telling you who I am. And I'm like, no, start off with your shoulders high and you checked out and let's go for this. You should know who I am. You should have heard of me because I'm incredible at what I do. I transform lines, I transform businesses, and therefore we can have a conversation along that route. So that's, for me, it is mindset and confidence, but there is, there's very little difference in selling from a startup versus selling from an enterprise established business.
Danielle Lewis (11:47):
That is so good. I just like, I'd want you in my ear every morning as a business owner going, you are bloody amazing. Go out there and get in front of everyone and tell them what you do because you are so right. It is so interesting. We obviously teach sales as well at Spark, and one of the things that I'm blowing away by, people have the tools. There are so many courses, there's so many bloody gurus, there's so many coaches, there's so many things. People have the tools and the knowledge, they have the frameworks, but picking up the phone or sending the email and I'm all right, how many outreach did we do this week? Oh, well. And I'm like, oh, if you don't talk to anyone, you're not going to make any sales.
Harriet Mellor (12:40):
Thank you. You don't talk to anybody. You're not going to make any sales. And again, marketing plays a big piece in that in the sales conversation, you can have marketing, but without sales, you don't have sales. So marketing will give you reach or generate your leads, but it's not a conversion. And if your marketing is good enough to convert, great, but you're probably still only converting this amount. I'm using my handset. You're only converting maybe 20, 30% of what you could be doing. So when people say to me, I've got a hundred percent conversion, I'm like, you aren't trying hard enough. No one's got hundred percent conversion. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (13:15):
No one has hundred
Harriet Mellor (13:16):
Percent. You're not trying. It shouldn't be hundred percent. It shouldn't be hundred percent because it means then that you are either pushing too many people into the sale or you are not. Generally the reason is you're not outbounding and you are dealing then with inbounds and you're classing people that you want to work with, and then you're taking the conversions from that. So generally that's a process. But you mentioned before picking up the phone. It's my biggest bugbear. I build strategies that incorporate so many avenues of communication. All are fine. You get the call and at the end of the week or end of the month, I go, right, where are we at? Tell me numbers. What are the activities? They're like, yeah, I'm not really getting the response. I was hoping, I'm like, oh, is what I've done not working? What do you mean it's not working?
(13:57):
This worked. I've tested it. I've done it for years. I'm constantly improving it. How is this not working? And I go in, we go, right, talk me through it. Then what happened? Then what happened? Okay, cool. Then when do you call them? I didn't call them. I'm like, okay, this is the final piece of the strategy that will get you a yes or a no. Because often what happens is we let 'em sit in our pipeline, we get 'em sit in our mindset, which is really annoying. Every day you're like, oh, Harriet's not calling me back. Oh, do I call her? Do I not call her? Do I follow up? And you happily send emails. You'll send an email every three weeks. Okay, hey, just checking in.
Danielle Lewis (14:34):
Oh, I hate just checking in.
Harriet Mellor (14:36):
Yeah, do you have any questions? Also hate that. So those two are generally what people will follow up with. Whereas actually if you pick up the phone and say, Hey Danielle, how are you? Number one, that would be a great opener. And then we then say, awesome. I you through some information, would love to get some feedback. I sent you through a proposal after our conversation, would love to know what your initial thoughts are. That's it. That's all we have to do. And then Danielle says, I'm too busy. She says, it is no longer priority. It's Feb. Awesome. Can I call you in Feb? What day? What time? Let me send you through an invite. The process keeps moving, whereas when all we do is send an email, you'll have 20, 30 people sitting there and then you've got the other dead leads. They're not, because we get busy as consumers. So think about other in the other foot, and I never say to sell, we want to be sold to because we should sell our clients what we sold to. But always consider how you are being followed up and I'm your best person to sell to. I'm also your worst person to sell to. I'm the
Danielle Lewis (15:36):
Worst.
Harriet Mellor (15:36):
Still good If you're good, I'm like, take my money. Can you say that again? That's the, I'm writing
Danielle Lewis (15:43):
This down, I'm writing this down. And they're like, what is wrong with you?
Harriet Mellor (15:47):
Exactly. I'm like, does this work every time? Can you just tell me the process? And I had that with us. So we had to get our solar panels renewed and the whole process, I was like, oh my goodness, this is insane. His ROI and the way he positioned all the things and I was like, take my money. That's fine. Yeah, let's do this. So again, was great, but when it's not good, I had, again, I'm having some worked on the garden. I got two quotes for fences. They never called me back. So guess what I'm doing? And keep searching for more fence people until somebody I feel like they get me and I feel like they understand what it is that I need. Now, again, someone could go, they're too busy. Okay, they're too busy now. But what happens in March? What happens in April when everything starts to slow down a bit?
(16:34):
They're still busy. Then how are they going to manage me as a prospect at that point? So again, follow up, people get busy. Things are things get in the way. If you ring them and they go, Harriet, I'm so sorry you are only bit on my list. Let's do this right now is generally what you'll get if they're ready to go. If they're not, you'll confirm the date, you'll confirm the time and you move on. Now you can focus on something else. You can get on with something else without having Danielle, Harriet, Sarah, John, Steve, Katie in your head. Because every day it's like, oh, what's the point? These people don't want it, actually, they probably do. You just need to ring them.
Danielle Lewis (17:08):
I love that so much. And something else you said as well. So about the fence guys, I also get blown away by when people make it difficult for you to spend money with them. So isn't it funny when you are chasing someone like, Hey, I really need this done. I need this. Can I do this, blah, blah, blah. And they're not getting back to you. And I do get it as business owners or salespeople or whatever, we are busy too, but we don't have a business if we don't have sales and revenue coming in. So prioritizing, getting back to people and just making it easy to sell to them and for them to pay you money. Even just, I talk a lot about strategy and process, but I'm also like if someone just wants to pay you, let them pay you. Don't force them through your process.
(17:58):
I remember I was trying to switch marketing CRM and I have used marketing CRMs for ever, but I think it was Marketo actually. I had to sit on this call with this lady asking me her qualification questions. And I wasn't allowed to get a demo or a trial until I talked to this other person and I was like, I already know that I want this and you are blocking this sale. Are you people crazy? I had to wait a week to get in front of the right person that could do that part of the sales process. So I feel like we also need to be flexible in our approach as well.
Harriet Mellor (18:36):
Definitely. Yeah, definitely. And asking them the question of like, okay, well look, what do you see those next steps being from now? And then talk through. Well look, usually what I find works really well is that we go through this step because of this reason. We go through this step. So you get this, we make it about our clients. Whereas often it's like, okay, well I need to do this and then I need you to do that. You've lost me then again, because it's about you and your process. And if you are getting pushed back every time, maybe your process change, maybe there's another step in there, but as long as you're qualify and you're moving them through and you're ticking the boxes that you need, making it about them, that's the goal here.
Danielle Lewis (19:15):
I love that so much. So okay, talk to me about, obviously you've gone from internal being a salesperson, events roles, being an employee to now a business owner. What was that transition like for you?
Harriet Mellor (19:29):
Do you know? It doesn't feel any different whether that was the right answer. That's good. I've had this conversation so many times. It's like, remember when you first started your business and you'd be like, when I hit my first six figure, this is how I'm going to feel. It doesn't feel any different to the day I started.
Danielle Lewis (19:47):
It still feels like I can't get through my to-do list.
Harriet Mellor (19:49):
Yeah, that's all that happens. I'm like, I just have a few more clients now. That's really it. But then, so yeah, for me, I've always been very fortunate to work with people that let me do my own thing. And I think that's credit really to where I've got to today because I've learned within businesses that are extremely successful businesses. I've had breakfast with Richard Branson on Necker Island. I have, oh my God, I've been at round tables with billionaires in the uk. I've been at meetings and introductions here in Australia, around Australia, in Asia. I have been exposed to some insane people, insane ability to build businesses and wealth. And so for me, I am so thankful for all of those experiences. But I think for me coming into a business, nothing really changed because I run my business, I ran my mini, I call them my mini business.
(20:47):
When I worked for other companies, I was my own business. I was my own brand. I was my own outreach. I did all of my cold calls, I did all of my opportunities. And so people wouldn't come and buy from me because I worked for a company. They came and bought for me because of who I was and what I could achieve and the way that I delivered and the way that I supported my clients. So I think now running a business, it is a bit more responsibility. I guess that's kind of there. This is my second business. So I had a day spa previously. Oh wow. It was my tester. It was a risky tester, but
Danielle Lewis (21:26):
Yeah, and like a retail presence as a tester. Are you crazy?
Harriet Mellor (21:29):
Yes. I was like, I think I can do
Danielle Lewis (21:31):
This, we can do it.
Harriet Mellor (21:32):
There was a gap, there was a space and I was like, oh, let's try it. So that for wellness bar, so that was up in the northern beaches in Perth. So we had that for three and a half years and sold it. So set it up from the ground up. It was a bottle shop. So it went from a bottle shop to a full treatment room day spa, and then sold it then to another salon and they've got now a second location. So that was different because I had physical presence and I had knowledge, but more so I was cybersecurity sales. I wasn't treatment sales. So for me it was a really good learning, a really good lesson. And I had staff. I mean, the biggest thing I would always say, my learnings from all that is have content tell me, have contracts for everything. And I say that today, still to this day, everything you do is bound by your contracts. And I don't think businesses value it enough, but when you really need it, you'll be really thankful that you had a contract.
Danielle Lewis (22:31):
I love that you said that because I remember when I started scrunch and we started signing our first clients. So this is my other business influencer marketing agency. I remember when we first started getting the yeses, I felt so weird about sending a contract to someone. I dunno, I dunno what it was. I felt almost like I didn't, it wasn't real. Yes, they'd said yes, but I didn't quite believe them yet. And I also, I feel like because my sales style is so friendly, I almost feel like sending a contract in an invoice was too professional and too not friendly. I was like, but in saying that, I only made that mistake once. You do.
Harriet Mellor (23:16):
That's true. You only do it once. Yes. And so did you rectify the situation for not having the contract? Did that come out in the right way?
Danielle Lewis (23:26):
No. So it was a really bad, horrible lesson that cost us a lot of money. But I learned the lesson that you always have contracts and yes, it was an expensive lesson to learn, which is why I love that you said it like if we can tell everyone not to make this mistake, please don't make this mistake. So yeah, it was really ended up costing us money. We had to, so the client didn't pay for their campaign and we ended up having to pay influencers that had done work, so we were out of pocket and blah, blah, blah, which is horrendous. But yeah, again, we then sent ironclad contracts with cancellation clauses to anybody who said they wanted an influencer campaign from them.
Harriet Mellor (24:10):
And again, if contract sounds, because I'm similar to you conversation and again when I worked with bigger businesses was that we'd have to do an agreement, which generally got, it was back and forth, back and forth, but it was always the most time consuming part. So for me, I was like, well, I don't need to do them now because it's just me. It is my business. I get to decide if we do them. And I paid a lot of money for my contracts and I didn't use them. So one client, similar story where I had done the work and then I went to invoice and no reply and no reply, no reply. They wanted me to do more work, they just didn't. I was like, that's fine, I'll do more work, but you need to pay my first invoice. And again, two months went by.
(24:54):
It was about, I think we got to 10, 12 weeks in the end, I had a meeting, and actually I'll take a step back. I ended up passing it onto my lawyers and said, can you go after it? It was not a big amount of money. And my lawyer said, are you sure you want to do this because it's going to cost me probably as much as the invoice would to get 'em to proceed. And I said, yeah, because it's a point. I'm making a point. You cannot engage me and do all the work and then not pay me. The benefit of my contract would be that I could then fall into enforcing some of the terms. I've also then got late payment clause, things like that. So therefore I would've then gone, well, it's fine. I can cover my costs because this is what they're going to have to pay.
(25:37):
They've signed a contract. And so now it doesn't matter if it's a thousand dollars, I will still send out and I call mine an agreement. So again, services agreement because it just feels more aligned with what I'm doing. So services agreement, I have an non-disclosure agreement. I work with a lot of businesses tell me everything. And so I signed an NDA and then we then have the first payment upfront, and if they don't pay the first payment upfront, we don't work together. So that's the process. And again, that bit's scary if you think about that as your first, second, third deal. And to us we go, okay, it's another barrier. It's another barrier to saying no or you've said yes, but what if I show 'em the contract? Then they now say, no, you don't want to work with them. If they're the contract, you'll find somebody else.
Danielle Lewis (26:21):
And the interesting thing I found as well was the bigger the company I worked with, the more they expected it. So they expected a contract and they expected specific terms. And almost if I wasn't meeting that, then I wasn't looking professional as a business. So it was, and I actually started working it into sales conversations and using it as kind of my test, how close to closing are, what kind of payment terms do you typically work with? Or is this okay or is this okay? So that by the time you get to the end where you are ready to sign a contract, you've already talked about loosely everything that goes into it. So nothing should be a surprise. So it feels a lot more comfortable for you to send anyway.
Harriet Mellor (27:03):
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And that comes into your process. So again, it's like also this is moving through and your buying signals, as you said, you are doing there, you're doing a trial close, you are positioning some options, you're getting feedback. If they say, oh, I'm not sure, I'll have to come back to you or let me know what you recommend. That's like a, oh, I'm not sure. Okay. But again, if you don't ask it, you don't know. And if you are fearful of not winning something, you are giving that energy off to the client anyway. So if you are showing up from a Oh, please say yes, please say yes, then if you show up and don't ask the real questions and don't move your opportunity forward, they're going to know that you are desperate for that sale. And nobody wants to be desperate.
Danielle Lewis (27:48):
No, and that's exactly right. And I think the quicker though that you can uncover whether somebody is right for you or wrong for you, the better, right? Because it'd be far better to ask the pointed questions that help you uncover that this person is very keen and your ideal customer versus kind of just skirting around all of the important issues and just wasting so much time with people that aren't ever going to buy from you anyway. So yes, it might feel a bit uncomfortable, but in the long run, that is going to be such a better investment in your time.
Harriet Mellor (28:20):
Absolutely. It's getting to know as quickly as possible. That's how I call it. And people go, what do you mean? We want 'em to say no? And I'm like, no, no. We don't want 'em to say no. But if you're going to say no, say no now.
Danielle Lewis (28:30):
Yes,
Harriet Mellor (28:31):
I love that as quickly as possible.
Danielle Lewis (28:33):
And because one thing you said that I loved before was you shouldn't have a hundred percent conversion rate. I talk about this when people are scared of getting no. And I was like, well, okay, well what's your conversion rate? And so if you have a conversion rate that's 10% or 20% or 50%, I'm like, that means that 50% of the time you're hearing no. So you better get used to it. It's just part of the process. And it's nothing to take personally.
Harriet Mellor (29:03):
No, but if you haven't had a no, you are not learning actually your process. If you don't put yourself out there enough to get a no or to get a not right now or to get a, not sure we can learn from a, not sure we can learn from a not right now, or we can learn from a no, because then we position it differently. So I use that. I always recommend having an objection table or on a whiteboard somewhere and note them down because you may only be you right now, but you won't potentially won't be you forever. So have you got a team coming on board? What can they learn from your nose or from your rejections? If you have a big team, you have an objection wall. And people go up and they add, they're like, yes, I got a new objection today.
(29:46):
They go and put the objection on the wall and they talk about how we can learn from it. Every sales meeting I run for my clients is what's been, can someone show an objection this week? How could we have handled that differently? Then we learn and we have a more robust process and we get to know as quickly as possible. A lot of my clients find X, Y, and Z. What do you think? And then when they say, oh no, I don't really like that. That's not really kind of my approach. Okay, let me delve a little bit deeper. Alright, based on what you've said, I don't think I'm the right person for you. However, I've got a couple of people I can put you in with. This is the process. So you get to say no as much as your clients get to say no at the same time.
Danielle Lewis (30:23):
That is so good. And I think that that more broadly, that's such a great attitude to take into business. Not everything goes right. You will get so many nos, whether it's trying to hire employees, whether it's suppliers, whether it is those potential customers. There will be so many challenges along the way. But if you can take the lesson, take the learning and really ask yourself, okay, how could we do that better next time? That is an outstanding business lesson, not just sales.
Harriet Mellor (30:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
Danielle Lewis (30:57):
So good. Okay, let's leave the smart community with perhaps one more piece of wisdom. So a lot of people that are dialing in are early stage founders of small businesses or startups, and a lot of them do struggle to put their sales hat on. So is there anything, if you were talking to a business owner, maybe specifically a female, any advice you would give them for just getting started?
Harriet Mellor (31:24):
Getting started? I would say build out your target list of your dream clients. Don't worry about how you're going to get them. Don't worry about what the steps are to get there. Build them out. Because what often, if I say who's your ideal audience? Oh, we can service everybody and it's not nicheing. So again, you may have a niche, and it may be this tiny niche, but if you are servicing accountants, if you are servicing coaches, if you are servicing new moms, focus on that and work out who your target audience is and speak to them. What do they want to know? What would they like to hear? Because sales is about connection. It's about connecting problems with outcomes, and it's about connecting people. People buy from people. So if you can do everything with them in mind, you are going to show up in a different way.
(32:17):
If you can learn and take onboard their words, their language, you're going to know exactly how to speak to them. And we talked before about, I was mentioned on another podcast, the big transformation for them was around the language because we generalized. So if you are talking to businesses that have a challenge of, I'm trying to think of an example. I'll use it, a sales example. If I'm talking to a business and their challenge is around lead generation, and I may call it prospect building and they may call it lead generation. If I start calling it prospect building, I'm not connecting. If I call it lead generation, they're like, oh, she knows what we mean. Or now I know what she means. Okay, yes. So I use the example of PTs and gym instructors where you go, I want to get fit or do I want to lose fat?
(33:08):
Or do I want to be able to do a pull up? Okay, what's the goal? Align me back to my goal every time and you'll connect with me on a different level. When you start trying to use your jargon, your language and what you generalize, you don't achieve anything. You don't hit anybody. And so if we look at your sales messaging across your website, which is often where small businesses go first, they're like, I need a website and then I need to have a sales page, and then I need to have a process. You actually don't need any of that. You just need to be able to have a conversation. But if that's where you are sitting right now, go back to your ideal audience. Go back to the conversations. Go back to your inquiries. Gather the language and the wording, check that on your website, use that in your next dm.
(33:52):
Use that in your next email. You'll connect with way more people and you know who you are shooting for. So have those dream aligned audiences, have those clients there, have the revenue points if you really want to. But it's all about clients and it's about making a difference. And so if you can start there, that's a great place to start. Rather than going, I'm going to build a website and it's got to have 17 pages on, my website's not even finished yet. I've been in business two and a half, nearly three years doing this. Nobody looks at my website. They might go and just go, okay, is it legit? Has you got to work? What's on there? I've got some freebie resources. Maybe they look at that, but no one's reading through every page of my website to decide if they want to work with me. They've got to read through the first bit and go, okay, does she align? Get it out there across your socials, across LinkedIn. Use the language. It will resonate with so many more people and it will make your job as a sales person in business we're selling. It will make that much easier.
Danielle Lewis (34:49):
You are absolutely incredible. Harriet, thank you so much for spending your time and sharing your insights and wisdom with the Spark community. I couldn't be more thankful.
Harriet Mellor (35:00):
Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for having me.
