#awinewith Gaby Georges
MEET Gaby Georges, Founder of The Grief Cocoon
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:05):
So good. Gabby, welcome to Spark tv.
Gaby Georges (00:08):
Thank you. Thanks.
Danielle Lewis (00:11):
We have known each other for so long in the Spark community, so I can't believe we haven't done this earlier.
Gaby Georges (00:20):
Yeah, true.
Danielle Lewis (00:22):
Oh, so good. Now I'm excited to share your story with everybody. Let's start there. Let's start by telling everyone who you are and what you do.
Gaby Georges (00:30):
Okay. So my name is Gabby Georges and I am a creative grief guide, a grief movement guide. I am a community builder and the grief cocoon started because of my own personal challenges with grief. And I know it's a bit of a subject that not many people like to talk about, but I dealt with a significant loss, the loss of my mom when I was only 20, and I found it really isolating, and so I didn't want other people to go through that same experience. And it took me a bit of time. It is now been just over 15 years, so I didn't start the grief raccoon or any kind of initiative straight away. It sort of took some time I needed to process my own loss. And then eventually I started doing community events and then that turned into workshops and then that turned into more of an ongoing community and education and online content. And so a podcast and it just sort of grew over time. And so it's really the thing that I was looking for when I was grieving and I'm still, grief is sort of an ongoing thing, but it's early on I really needed connection and people that knew what I was or that understood what grief was like. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (02:05):
No, I think what you do is just so beautiful and it is really interesting because I think that when we do experience loss, we are very quick to isolate ourselves, and I think that a lot of people feel like they're going to say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing. And so everybody does just shy away from the topic, which is probably the worst thing. It's not the thing that anyone wants or needs.
Gaby Georges (02:33):
Yeah, it's trying at least to sort of be there and you don't have to always say something or do the right thing. It's just sort of letting people know that you're there. And actually sometimes you can ask if they need food or if they need someone to walk the dog or just practical things like that. But I think being silent. Yeah, it's really hard for the person grieving. It just feels like no one's there.
Danielle Lewis (03:06):
Yeah, I know. And it's so sad. I think you're so right. Sometimes it's not about saying the words, it is just the being there and I think we can show up imperfectly and it's just so appreciated by the person.
Gaby Georges (03:24):
And I always say if you feel like if something isn't received well or you might've said something that you think, oh, maybe that wasn't the right thing, you can also always start again and you can apologize and you can try and do better and just learn from it. It's not just like you, well, hopefully you don't only have one chance to support the person, so you can always just fumble your way through it a little bit. Just like life really.
Danielle Lewis (03:54):
You'll just fumbling letter everything over here. Yeah. Oh, I love it. So what types of things, so if somebody was coming to a workshop or exploring your online community, what types of things do you guide people through?
Gaby Georges (04:15):
Well, we've done creative writing workshops, and a lot of it is because I guess my background is as a creative, and so writing was a huge tool for me to process grief. And so I've done creative writing workshops, yoga, movement, sound. There's lots of different, depends on who I'm working with. We create different offerings and workshops, but also with the online community, a lot of times it's just people who are also grieving, supporting each other, and it's like peer support and you can find educational resources to learn about grief and be a little bit more empowered with understanding maybe what's normal. And a lot of times just feeling less alone because you don't really know what grief is like until you go through it. And then when you meet others who understand what you're going through, it's like, oh, okay, I'm not crazy. This is okay. This is normal. So yeah, I just guide people through the actual experience of grief. And I also have started doing one-on-one work where it's using movement and just asking questions and sharing prompts with people that can help them process what they're experiencing and also kind of open up their perspective about grief and about how to live with it because it's something everyone eventually will have to live with and experience. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (05:57):
Experience. Yeah. Isn't it crazy? It is literally something we will all experience. So why we're not a little bit more in tune with supporting each other or what we need to go through. Yeah, it's wild that it's completely, everyone on the planet will experience it, but we are so ill-equipped to actually deal with it.
Gaby Georges (06:20):
Yeah, I find it bizarre. It still baffles me. It's like, but this is the one certainty, one of the things we are sure about. But yeah, we don't know how to deal with it. We don't talk about it. It's still kind of avoided.
Danielle Lewis (06:40):
I think it's probably, I mean just postulating here, but because it is so emotional, the edge you get to when you feel something so horrific and traumatic, I think too, there's grief in so many ways as well. There's not just a loss of a person. It can be a traumatic experience or loss of a business since we're on a business podcast and there's lots of that that's happened in the last few years, I think, I don't know, it's almost like we want to put up this shiny persona online and when we experience grief or loss or something akin to that, it is just so heavy. It is just so awful that I think we kind of shy away from being vulnerable and sharing our experience with people.
Gaby Georges (07:37):
It is a hard thing to go through, and I guess it is definitely painful and uncomfortable and all of those things that people don't want to experience. But I think the hardest things in life are the ones that really open up, just I guess open up a whole new path and open up a new, so many different things that you learn about yourself and about others and about life through actually facing it and through leaning into the grief because that's actually, it's so transformative if you actually allow it to be, but it's hard to think about that when you are in the depths of it or when you don't want to be in the depths of it. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (08:36):
It's one of those experiences that it's on the other side that you realize what you've learned and who you've become come. And I think that's why it's so incredible the work you do, because we need a guide sometimes we need a little handholding as we walk through this process.
Gaby Georges (08:56):
Yeah, and I mean, I love that. I guess I love talking about it and I love working with people who, as hard as it is, as it is to just sort be grieving, but it's there to let people know that it's okay and to validate what they're going through and to kind of guide them through. Because I've been there before and I've gone through just rock bottom and not seeing the hope and not really feeling like I want to live, and it's just hard. I know what it's like. So I guess I think we need more people that actually have gone through the experience who cannot actually support others through it as well, because it's not just about the theories. I know about all the theories, but it's like it's about the real life experience, so you can't really replace that in terms of supporting people. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (09:59):
How do you go about, so you've obviously have a lived experience. You are so passionate about supporting people through this stage. This is such a human experience. How do you go about then making a business out of it? So has that been tricky?
Gaby Georges (10:18):
Yeah, look, I don't know. I wouldn't say that I've been a real, I've amazing at it because in none of us are, but in the beginning I couldn't even, I'd bring myself to charge anything. I was just running free events, not super regularly, but I was just doing it. I started with once a year and it was just like, you can donate if you want a gold cone donation. But I put a lot of work into each event, and over time I just started getting really kind of a little bit burnt out from trying to do extra all of this extra work on the side. But then knowing that, yeah, I didn't feel comfortable charging for it, but then someone told me, well, how is it going to be sustainable if you don't actually value what you do and put a price to it? And I was like, oh, no, it was, but it was real.
(11:22):
It was very true what they were saying. And I thought, yeah, it's probably because I've always just done it as of in a voluntary way and been too scared to charge anything for it. That's why I'm so tired and that's why I'm so, I'm burning out because I've still got to do all this other stuff for work, and then I've got this other thing I'm passionate about that's not making any money, but it's something I love doing. So yeah, I had to come around to it, the realization that if I don't charge anything, then I can't sustain it and I can't keep putting all the time and energy that it needs. But it sort of initially happened very organically where it was just people that within my social circle found out about it and then they're like, oh, this sounds great. Can you do workshop here?
(12:20):
Can you run this there? Can you do this talk? And so it was really great in that sense. But I'd also have, in workshops, I'd also have people show up that I just didn't know. And eventually there was more and more people who'd find out about it, and I realized you really do have to put what you're doing out there because people won't know about it and they won't get that support if they don't know about it. So I've also though along the way tried to create opportunities for people that maybe aren't in a position to pay, where it's like I've had sponsored positions or people that pay it forward to others, and that kind of creates more opportunities, more accessibility for different people. But yeah, I've just sort of had to realize that it's not something I can continue doing, and I love because I want to continue doing it. I kind of have to charge, get
Danielle Lewis (13:23):
Over it.
Gaby Georges (13:26):
Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (13:27):
It's so interesting because I mean, you're not the only one, and especially I find when we're doing good, it's like something happens when we do good in the world. We don't think we should make money off it. It's really bizarre. But I'm so happy that you did lean into creating a business around it because the world needs it for starters, and it would just be so sad if it didn't have it because you had to go and get a boring day job. But it is really interesting how, especially when we're doing something that impacts other people's lives or something that's perceived as purpose-driven or impactful or saving the world, we go, oh, well, we better not charge for that. But it's like I have this, someone once said to me, this has come up twice today. This is bizarre. Someone once said to me that purpose and profit shouldn't be mutually exclusive, and the more money you make, the more impact you can have in the world. And I was like, oh, that's a really good point. I was like, if more people made more money off doing good, maybe more people would do good.
Gaby Georges (14:42):
True. And that's true. The more money you make, the more stuff you can create and the better can make things to actually work with more people, and so the impact grows.
Danielle Lewis (14:58):
Yeah, I mean, it's so funny you think about all of the, as business owners, we all have these crazy ideas. There's all these ideas that every day we wake up like, oh, I want to do that or want to do that. And a lot of them cost money. I'd be like, oh, I'd really like to do that, but I'll do that when we start making more money or whatever. And it's like, yeah, so make more money and put more cool stuff into the world and create a bigger platform and improve everything. I just think it's really important to talk about that as well while we're talking about uncomfortable subjects today.
Gaby Georges (15:30):
Yeah, it is a very
Danielle Lewis (15:32):
Uncomfortable subject,
Gaby Georges (15:33):
I would say,
Danielle Lewis (15:34):
Where you spend money, we're doing it all today. Yeah, I love it. What do you think has been the biggest challenge for you over your business time?
Gaby Georges (15:50):
I think maybe actually figuring out a way to kind of prioritize what's important and sort of not just do the day-to-day things, but actually put some time into relationship building and the bigger picture stuff. I think that's something you can get bogged down in just the day-to-day stuff. And actually finding people to collaborate with I think has been tricky as well, because it's like when you have your baby, you kind know you're so passionate about it and you have a particular, you want people to continue with the work that you've done, and you need some help to grow and to continue building momentum. And so that's been one challenge, finding the right people to work with. I've worked with some amazing people, but then I think something for me as well that I'd love to do is just find someone I can work with ongoingly.
Danielle Lewis (17:01):
Yeah,
Gaby Georges (17:02):
I've worked with people for short term projects, and so that's been a lot of fun, but then I think I can't always be the one to sort of maintain the business and to do the social media and then do this and that and build relationships. So yeah, I think that that's been, and at the moment, that's something I'm thinking I really need to actually develop some sort of ongoing collaborator or partner to actually do this with.
Danielle Lewis (17:37):
Wow, it's so true. I was thinking about it as I was doing my yearly planning, the prioritization. I am just saying, I sit down in the morning and I write down the list and I'm like, already, there are not enough hours to do everything that you put on this list. And then you have those moments where you're like, I'm not doing anything big. I'm not moving the needle. I'm not working on that product idea I had or the whatever. So I totally agree with you that you've got to carve out the time or find a collaborator or really find a way to do the big things that are going to make a big difference in the business.
Gaby Georges (18:21):
And I think I'm sort of this year thinking I really need to, not just because I gather feedback from people and then it's like, oh yeah, I'll put that on the list. It's like, oh, I have an action that, and I need time and space to actually put things into action and to create those things that people are asking for and that they need and not just put time into just the everyday maintenance things, which can take up a lot of time and they are time consuming, but, and I think there's also, there's so much to that, but it's hard. You got to sort of balance that out, maintaining the everyday stuff and then also putting time into the long-term stuff of building connections and
Danielle Lewis (19:18):
Yeah, because so much that you kind of go, it's not going to reap rewards today or tomorrow, but it's stuff that if you don't do now, it won't reap rewards in a year or a few years time. It's really tricky, isn't it, especially when your to-do list is screaming and you're like, I haven't posted on social media all week.
Gaby Georges (19:43):
Yeah. Oh, social media, that's a whole job in itself. But yeah, I think especially now, I've been doing more stuff online because I've been, last year I did a lot of traveling and moving, and then this year I'm settling into a new city and it's like, oh, I don't really know. People don't know me here. They don't know about the grief cocoon. And so I'm sort of starting to rebuild connections and the network and getting the word out. So that takes time to contact people and go, Hey, or even just show up to a place and talk to someone about what's happening in the area and just make those connections and calls. Calling and emailing. It's a bit uncomfortable as well, but it's sort of something that if you don't do it, how are people going to actually,
Danielle Lewis (20:48):
Yeah, it's wild. If you don't tell people about your stuff, how will they know you exist?
Gaby Georges (20:56):
And I realized I love doing online stuff just for the flexibility, but then I kind of miss doing the more in-person stuff, especially the group work where people can meet each other and new connections are formed in a different way. And so I'd really love to get back into doing more in-person events and workshops.
Danielle Lewis (21:19):
Yeah. It's so true though. Speaking of moving to a new city or even just starting any kind of strategy from scratch. I remember when I moved here, I was the old all guns blazing, like, oh, I'm just going to come in, I'm going to do this. I'm going to meet the people, do the things. And it took me a year of going to Chamber of Commerce events, having coffees with people, and I was like, oh my God, this is taking forever. And finally it starts paying off and people are like, oh, what do you do again? But it was just so funny. I had that same experience where it's like, yeah, you've got to put in the work of networking and meeting people and just talking about what you do relentlessly,
Gaby Georges (22:12):
And it does take time. And where I've moved to, I've actually had local say to me, things move a bit slower here. People work a bit slower, so don't expect anything to happen very quickly. We move at our own pace, and I'm like, ah. Because in the beginning it was like, okay, I'm going to get this happening and then just find a venue and just start doing events. But then, yeah, I think I've realized like, oh, okay, I need to slow down and take my time and actually build those relationships, build rapport with people, because it really is a small place, so people, they need to, they'd prefer to know you in person and make those real genuine connections. So yeah, that's why I sort of thought I had to take a step back and be more patient, and I thought, okay, let me not try and force this and burn bridges I haven't even built, so I actually slow down and do it step by step, I guess. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (23:21):
Yeah. And it's so true. Even the idea of the volume of people like being smaller towns, you kind of go, oh, it's not going to be the a hundred person or the 50 person thing that I am used to. It's going to be five people or 10 people. And that's okay. You kind of have to get back to that mentality of look after the person in front of you and let the snowball start rather than going, well, if it's not this, then it's a failure.
Gaby Georges (23:52):
Yeah, yeah. It's going back to the real personal connections and yeah, it's not about the volume, as you said, it's more about the quality of connections and quality of things that you do and smaller scale. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (24:11):
And I do find too that, and I dunno if it's a resurgence because of just the way of the world right now, but word of mouth. I have been blown away in the last few months about how people have said, oh, I found out about you through blah. And I was like, so not the thousands of dollars that I spend on ads, you found out you just talked to one person. So I'm like, maybe it is. Maybe this is the new, you heard it here first. It's all about one-on-one word of mouth marketing again.
Gaby Georges (24:41):
Yeah, I think there's something in that, especially after Covid, and I think people are a bit more hesitant to go to large events, so well, I know in Melbourne, for example, some events just basically canceled festivals and stuff because that ticket sales weren't doing very well, and I think people feel safer maybe going to smaller events. And word of mouth is also that thing where you're like, oh, I'll trust this person because this person trusts them and they know that. So it's a great way to get the business happening and build momentum.
Danielle Lewis (25:24):
Yeah. Oh, I love it. I love it so much. You are the best. Now, I always love to wrap up these podcasts with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on your time in business, what would be a piece of advice that you would give to another woman on her business journey?
Gaby Georges (25:42):
So much? I would start with saying, don't wait till things are perfect before you put them out. Because without putting them out, you won't get feedback to actually make them better and then build towards that ideal kind of product or offering that you want to give. So I think just put it out there and actually get feedback as you go along. That was one thing. I used to be a perfectionist, and so I'm a recovering perfectionist, and you want things to be so up to the standard and you should still have a standard, but then if you just have that extra 10% and you are not going to put it out until you get there, I think sometimes it's better to actually just put out where you are at and then sort of learn from there and make it better as you go. Because the feedback you get from real people will make it so much better than what you think they want. So that's one thing. And even just do one thing every day, whether it's you don't need to, maybe 1, 2, 3 main things that you have every day that you do, even if you've got other stuff happening. But I think consistency is the main thing and persistence.
Danielle Lewis (27:13):
Oh, I love it so much. Gabby, you are amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the Spark Potty and sharing your story and your insights. I know everyone listening would've gotten a lot out of that. So thank you so much.
Gaby Georges (27:29):
Thanks, Denny. Thanks for having me.
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