#awinewith Fiona Sanford
MEET Fiona Sanford, CEO of The Flourish Journey.
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:05):
Fiona, welcome to Spark tv.
Fiona Sanford (00:07):
Thanks so much for having me.
Danielle Lewis (00:09):
I'm so excited to have you on. We've already just started diving into stories before we hit record, so I'm like, oh, this is going to be such a good chat. Let's start out by telling everyone who you are and what you do.
Fiona Sanford (00:21):
Yeah, so good. I am fee. I'm the CEO of the Flourish Journey. The Flourish Journey is an organization that works with young teenage girls in high schools, and we work to build their resilience, empowerment, and connections so that they can go on and flourish in their life with the tools that they need to really be flourishing in life rather than just surviving.
Danielle Lewis (00:46):
Well, this sounds amazing already because nothing like the experience when I was in school.
Fiona Sanford (00:52):
Yeah, we hear that a lot.
Danielle Lewis (00:54):
Yeah. So then what was the inspiration for starting this because this is hugely impactful.
Fiona Sanford (01:01):
Yeah, so good. So I didn't found the organization, but it's saying that I have been here since the very first workshop. I was a volunteer facilitator on our very first workshop, which is wild to think about, but in 2018, and basically as you just mentioned, I wish I had this in high school or my high school experience had so many challenges and these kind of things. That's how Ani our founder, that's why she founded the organization because there were so many challenges that she, I guess thought about and reflected on after she left high school and was like, why are there no conversations? Why are there no safe spaces for teenage girls to explore who they are, to explore what it looks like to be in a healthy relationship, not an unhealthy relationship, and really just come together and realize that we're actually going through the same thing a lot of us and we're not alone.
(01:59):
And it was like Shawnee reflecting on her high school experience as to why she started it. But I think every single person that we talked to about Flourish and all of our incredible, we've got an amazing bunch of facilitators. It's like 20 facilitators that go out and deliver the programs. And every one of us that are involved in this program have our own version of that story from when I was in high school. I was the sporty chick who hung out with the guys and felt really comfortable. But then if you put me in a space with the girls, I felt like I had to change myself to fit in. I never felt like I fully fit in. I never felt like anyone understood who I was and at the time probably had anxiety but didn't have a language around what anxiety actually was. And it wasn't until we left high school that we started to understand and unravel those kind of things. So I guess we exist so that teenage girls have the opportunity of having those conversations when they are so they don't have to get to being 30 like I am and dealing with my anxiety at the peak that it was after high school because I didn't know.
Danielle Lewis (03:08):
Yeah, it's so interesting. As you've been talking, I've been reflecting on my high school experience and so I went to an all girls school and I know I see your face. Oh God, even worse. It's a whole thing. Totally. And I also never felt like I fit in. I was a bit of more of the Roma. I went from group to group and just hung out with anybody. But as a result, never felt like I really belonged anywhere and I hated school as well. I kind of knew what I wanted to do already, so I couldn't understand why I had to go through all of these years of all these subjects that I wasn't interested in. And it was just wild. I remember just crying in the car to my mom going, what is this? I just couldn't understand. High school. It was just such a wild place. So the fact that you are, I guess opening up these spaces and having these conversations where when it's a really rough time in girls' life, I think that it's just incredible.
Fiona Sanford (04:11):
I think it's also so interesting. And I'm assuming you're a similar age to I am.
Danielle Lewis (04:16):
Well, I'm a little bit older actually. You said 30. I'm about 39 now. It's both off time.
Fiona Sanford (04:24):
I love it said same, but I think I feel like I've just lost my train of thought where I was going,
Danielle Lewis (04:32):
Oh my God, because I got so distracted. We love, we love. That's this podcast in a nutshell. Everyone's just on a rant on a train of thought, but yeah, so we were saying the all Girls high school experience.
Fiona Sanford (04:46):
Yes, love it. It's back. I was going to say I feel like me being 30, I think of my high school experience when there was no social media or it was the super early stages. I think there was definitely MySpace, but Facebook has come in and Instagram just come in. Oh my gosh, that's a throwback. But I feel like it's just such a different world, what the young people go through now versus what I went through. And yet there's some similarities that we went through and the overall piece of I feel like I have to belong and I feel like I don't fit in and I feel like no one actually understands who I am because I don't understand who I am. And I think that's the piece that we get to start introducing the girls to. It's like, who the hell are you? Who do you want to be? What are your values? What are your strengths? Have you ever actually checked in to be like, how am I really going and having the tools to do that? Such a big question. But yeah, a lot of them don't actually know where to start. So that's like we kind of come in and we plant the seeds of thought for them to think about whether it be that day or a year later or three years down the track. And they're like, oh yeah, I remember that. We did that with Flourish and it helped. And so now I can implement it.
Danielle Lewis (06:03):
I just think it's so cool. It's so funny that you're saying this because, so literally I had an epiphany yesterday about my life and I was like, wow, I'm nearly 40 and I'm only just figuring out who I'm and what I want to do with my life. And to that point though, I've only through business ownership have I learned to try and figure out who I am in air quotes if anyone's just listening. But that idea to actually ask someone or have someone ask of themselves what their values are, what they care about, expose them to different conversations. And I mean, I want to talk about the event you just hosted as well because exposing young women to different career paths and helping them, just this idea of having them think critically. I'm like, I'm only just learning that now. So that being able to do that at such a young age is just so awesome. And to your point about social media, yes, it didn't exist when I was in high school. The only thing that existed was chat, like Messenger, what was it? msn, yeahn Messenger. And ICQ, if you're really old, my husband who's a little bit older again, he talks about one. I was like, oh, I'm too young to know what that one is. Yeah. I was like, I don't know any others. I feel like
Fiona Sanford (07:23):
MSN is the first
Danielle Lewis (07:23):
One before, but I even think about that. So that I guess was this early time of internet and even that you were waiting on boys to talk to you and all of this stuff and it's like even that was stressful. Can you imagine being a young woman now and the comparison that would go on social media and the bullying that happens? I just cannot fathom being in high school today.
Fiona Sanford (07:51):
No. I think from the stories that we hear from the young girls, they are struggling and they are very much unsure of how to move forward in a positive way. At the end of last year, if I was to say two words about teenage girls and how they found it was hopelessness and powerlessness, oh my God, that is terrifying for so many young girls. And this is as an organization, we've now worked with 25,000 teenage girls. It's amazing and so special, but being able to sit in spaces and hear them and to feel that energy of this heaviness
(08:31):
Just with all that's going on in the world, all that's going on that they're seeing. But the one thing that I really get from teenagers is they think so wide. They see what's happening overseas with the wars and they take it on and they see the environmental climate change and they see that the future that they're going to have to be the ones that fix it. They see the gender-based violence stats and all of this accumulates and there's just heaviness. So I think one of the things that we try and do as much as we possibly can is yeah, acknowledge that there's so many things in life that they're not going to be able to control. And there's so many pressures and expectations as you said, and at the same time being like, okay, what are the pieces that I can control if there's so many things in my life that I'm never going to be able to control and in society and expectations and pressures and all of these different things, but what can we actually get them?
(09:27):
Even if it's one thing, how do we help that young girl get the power back? And to be fair, I need that tool and we use that tool. I use that tool so often I get so overwhelmed and I'm like, oh, I want to change the world. And then it's like, how the hell do you do that? And just being like, okay, what's the one thing that I can start with? So yeah, I feel like there are so many pressures and overwhelming things that they have to go through, but how do we start to unwind and bring that kind of, and part of the event that we did, it's all about girl spirit. How do we bring the energy and play of being a girl and girlhood because it's kind of conditioned out of us as adults, which is so sad.
Danielle Lewis (10:14):
Totally. I mean, well, firstly I want to put a pin in that tip because I feel like that's so good for women in business as well. That idea that you are overwhelmed too much to do and go, okay, what is one thing that I can control? What is one thing that I can focus on and eliminate the rest of the noise? I find that so helpful, especially in our never ending to-do lists going right. Let's just put, I always say to people, if you have a to-do list a mile long. Put one thing on a post-it note, and then turn the to-do list over. And the only thing I focused on is the one thing on the post-it note. But yeah, no, it is wild. And it's interesting, as you were saying about all of the things that they've got going on the war and the stats and this, I'm again, kind of goes back to the fact we didn't have social media. So I feel like I was quite sheltered as a young woman. I didn't know about all of these things going on in the world because yeah, it's just if you go online today, you are just bombarded with problems and it's a horrific state of the world.
Fiona Sanford (11:20):
And no, and I think obviously there's a lot happening in the space of social media for young people at the moment and a lot of push to delay the age that they can get onto social media and those kind of things, which is interesting. And it could be a positive, and it also could be the flip side. And to be honest, teenagers, if they're going to do something, they're going to get around it. It's not going to stop. Yeah, exactly.
Danielle Lewis (11:43):
Yeah. One way to not make this happen is so tell teenagers they can't use media. Yeah, that's a great idea.
Fiona Sanford (11:51):
Literally if you tell them not to do it, they're going to do it. So they're want it even more. But I think that awareness piece of what is actually happening in the world, it's an amazing thing and a struggle at the same time. Because
(12:06):
As you said, they're aware of so much more than I agreed I was when I was in high school. But at the same time, they're carrying that with them and they don't have the tools to let that go and have the tools to realize, okay, what if this is in my control? What if this do I need to take with me and learn from, but what is the heap of stuff that I can actually just leave? And I think that's where the anxiety statistics, the depression, the self-harming eating disorders, the statistics around that for teenage girls is so high because they don't have the tools in how to let it go, how to combat it, and how to actually look after themselves in the process.
Danielle Lewis (12:50):
This is so awesome. So do you essentially go into schools and run these as set programs?
Fiona Sanford (12:58):
Yeah. So we've got our facilitators who will go into a group, there'll be say, three facilitators for a group of 35 girls up to 35 girls. And we've got three levels, level one's all about that self-awareness piece. So who am I? What are my values? What are my strengths? How can I check in with myself? And through that, how do I share about how I'm really going? Then we go into level two, and this one's so powerful. They're all powerful. I love them all, but this one is so vital at the moment. It's all about relationships and really having conversations about what is a healthy relationship, what's an unhealthy relationship? How do I set boundaries? How do I say no? How do I feel empowered using my voice,
Danielle Lewis (13:39):
Which is when you first roll that out for older people as well.
Fiona Sanford (13:42):
Oh my gosh. But seriously, I delivered a workshop recently and this young girl we were doing splitting the list of what's healthy and what's unhealthy, and we were looking at the unhealthy list and she goes to me, F, can I talk to you? And I was like, yeah, of course. What's up? She was like, oh, I didn't realize the relationship I'm in at the moment is really unhealthy.
Danielle Lewis (14:07):
Wow.
Fiona Sanford (14:07):
It's a year 10 girl. I saw goosebumps. Oh my
Danielle Lewis (14:10):
God, yes.
Fiona Sanford (14:11):
Wow. This is a year 10 year 10 girl. And she literally was like, I didn't realize what was happening was unhealthy. I didn't realize just continuously being asked about sex and you saying no and no and no. And then eventually saying yes, that's not okay.
(14:26):
This is a year 10 student. And so I think we do have lots of conversations about the healthy side. I think again, it's so heavy to talk about the unhealthy side and what happens if and those kind of things. And yes, that's there, but how do we actually focus on, okay, well if I don't want that, what can I do? How do I create a healthy relationship? What does that mean for me and myself? What does it mean for the people around me? And really focusing on that uplift and that empowerment and the healthy side rather than just focusing on the negative, which has been a really interesting shift that we've done this year and it's been really powerful. And then our level three is all about self-leadership. So how do I show up in the world if I want to make change in some area? How do I do that? How do I have agency in my life and my community and how do I give back? So they're kind of like our three levels. And then we do some keynotes and a whole heap of other things that we're developing and always learning and growing. And as anyone in business,
Danielle Lewis (15:37):
I love it. And then how is it funded? Did the schools pay for it or government funded? How does it actually work?
Fiona Sanford (15:45):
So we have been set up and we're technically a charity, but at the same time we're more social enterprise, which we took a long time to get DGR status. And so basically DGR status allows us to get donations for those who don't know. And it took us three years or so to actually get set up with DGR status, which meant we couldn't receive any donations, so we had to get set up as fee for service model, which meant schools pay for our programs and we deliver the programs, which is still the case now, but it's actually been, it's a really big positive because at the end of the day we've got this model that's semi, we still are looking for donations and always as a charity looking to grow and bring in those donations, but we're about 65, 70% that comes in through fee for service, which for a charity is very uncommon. So yeah, that's
Danielle Lewis (16:44):
How I think. That's awesome. And it's really interesting. I can just imagine parents of the children whose lives you've impacted donating because it's like more people need to know about this.
Fiona Sanford (16:56):
And that's kind of the phase that we're in at the moment where we've been around since 2018. But obviously covid in there was wild
(17:07):
As with everyone, and then the last couple of years has taken off a bit, but we haven't necessarily had the infrastructure internally to really push out and market and share what we're doing. And I feel like we're just at that stage now where we are. We've kind of built our team, we've got our programs, everything's ready to go. Now it's like, okay, cool, let's go and let's push this out. So I feel like we're in a phase of real growth and hoping to bring people into the circle more and bring people into the journey so that whether it be parents or whether it be educators or whether it be just people who are really passionate about teenage or wanting to make a difference in mental health and really start to bring them into the loop. And so I feel like we're at a really exciting stage. It's also a bit scary and daunting, but we're at an exciting stage where we need to grow and we need to grow within the organization. And I think we have the means to do that and we've got the product. But yeah, it's a challenging, exciting phase.
Danielle Lewis (18:15):
I love it. And I mean, you are right. It just sounds like you are on the precipice and everything is leading to this point. I just think it's so cool. So what's your strategy going to be to grow, to get the word out there? What are you planning?
Fiona Sanford (18:32):
Love that. A few things. The first thing that we're doing, and I guess the biggest piece of our puzzle is the schools and being able to reach out to more schools and put in a marketing kind of strategy, I guess, through how do we reach out to schools. A lot of that for us we found has been through like, okay, we need to go to a conference and we need to have an opportunity to speak on behalf of teenage girls and share in order for people to really hear about us. So a lot of our growth has been pretty much word of mouth until now. And now we're at the point of being like, okay, cool, that needs to change,
Danielle Lewis (19:07):
Which
Fiona Sanford (19:07):
Is great. And then the other piece is this advocacy piece that we have and the opportunity we have to really platform the voices of teenage girls and really start to share. We're hosting our first ever, well, I say first ever event because we've done little ones, but this is our first ever big event that we're hosting next Thursday night, which is, I don't know when the podcast is coming out, but
Danielle Lewis (19:34):
I have no idea either
Fiona Sanford (19:37):
Next Thursday night, 10th of October to celebrate International Day of the Girl. And yeah, it's going to be heaps of fun. We've got a US author who has just written a book, if you have Teenage Girls in Your Life, read this book. It's called Underestimated the Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls.
Danielle Lewis (19:54):
Oh, cool. I want to read that.
Fiona Sanford (19:56):
Yeah, literally it is literally all that we do and we just do it on the ground and it's phenomenal. So we've got her zooming in to be interviewed, and then we're doing an interview panel with Helen Lewiston, who's our clinical psych, and then some young girls as well. So yeah, I feel like that's kind of our hope of a springboard into an opportunity to bring in corporate partners, to bring in donors and build those relationships and also have schools there to continue to build those relationships. But I think in terms of strategy we're figuring out on the fly, I love it.
Danielle Lewis (20:36):
I mean, look, everything that you are saying sounds totally spot on. Obviously this, yeah, I mean it already, but obviously going through the schools, obviously the events, obviously the advocacy piece, I mean, I think you have it nailed. This is such an exciting time for you.
Fiona Sanford (20:56):
What
Danielle Lewis (20:56):
Do you think has been the biggest challenge so far since you said 2018? What do you think has been one of the biggest challenges that the business has gone through?
Fiona Sanford (21:08):
I think one of our big challenges, and we're going through it again at the moment, is our facilitators are all casual staff members.
(21:16):
And that is phenomenal because it means that they're flexible and at the same time, it means that when they start to look for full-time work and part-time work, we can't offer them that at the moment. And so it often feels like we're kind of on this cycle of training up facilitators. They get awesome and then it's like, oh, they leave and they go and flourish in whatever part that they do, which is awesome for them. But it's also a really challenge for a big challenge for us. So one of the things we're thinking about is, okay, what does the model look like and how can we keep the facilitators if we can't necessarily employ them in a full-time role, but what are the other options that we can do? So that's always been a really big challenge. And because our facilitators are our product, we have to have high quality.
(22:07):
So we put a lot of money that goes into our facilitation training, and so then it's hard when they leave and we're like, oh, okay, start from scratch. So I think that's a really big challenge and one that we're going through again at the moment. And then I think the other thing, one of the challenges for me, and I'm sure that there's plenty of women on here, like me as a young woman trying to raise money for an organization and trying to be the face of an organization and to have people back financially, it is really hard. And I'm only just figuring that out now that there is actually an impact of being a young woman in business who has big dreams and needs funding and support, and the lack of being taken seriously or being taken in a way that there's belief and confidence behind the organization. It's really interesting, and I haven't nailed it and I don't, so any tips is great while I'm on here,
Danielle Lewis (23:19):
But yeah, that's a big challenge. It's so frustrating, isn't it? I think it was really, so it's interesting. So yesterday I was on LinkedIn and there's just been this new LinkedIn report done about startups, and there's one female led startup on there. And the the way the video was positioned was that Australia has a lack of female founders. And I was like, bullshit.
(23:43):
We're plenty of female founders. The problem is backing the female founders investing in them. The federal government just closed down the boosting female founders grant, all of this stuff. And I was like, it's just so infuriating because all of the blame or problem solving just gets pushed back to women. So they go, there aren't enough women starting businesses and there aren't enough women taking risks. I was like, that's bullshit. There are plenty of those things going on. It's the investors who aren't stepping up and taking the risk and betting on a woman in business because you're right, we do get disproportionately asked questions that are sexist and our legit is questioned and it is infuriating, guys. Just don't get the level of criticism that women do when it comes to capital raising especially,
Fiona Sanford (24:40):
And even partnerships. I've noticed it even in the space of partnerships and we've worked alongside another men's organization who have been around longer than us, but in a very similar field and doing similar things. And yeah, it's really interesting to be like, it's a very polar opposite support that we end up getting and we are further behind in terms of time. But also I think there's something to play for being a young woman and running an organization and having a dream and having a vision, but also needing that support financially in partnerships or however it might, has been a really interesting challenge that I hadn't expected to this extent.
Danielle Lewis (25:30):
And the infuriating part of it is it becomes a numbers game. So women I find just have to pitch so much more than guys to get somewhat of the same level of return. So there's literally nothing you're doing wrong. It is the state of the world we live in, and the only solution is to just keep going and go harder. I know, which is really infuriating. I wish there was an actual answer, but I think while we all work on changing the world, women need funding now and have to get things done. So I'm like the only solution is to just keep knocking down doors until you get it. So don't give up. It's absolutely going to
Fiona Sanford (26:13):
Happen. And also that sustainability of women as well, I think is a really interesting one, and
(26:20):
The levels of burnout, and I know I've experienced it and just having such passion, I think especially as a woman so deeply connected to wanting to make a difference. And I see the girls that I went to gymnastics with and had eating disorders, and I wish they had this, and I wish I had this program so that I knew how to help them because I didn't, and I didn't even know what I was saying wasn't helpful. And at the end of the day, we are so passionate, we care so much as women that sometimes it's at our detriment a lot of the time. I feel like it's at our detriment.
Danielle Lewis (27:01):
Well, I mean I think it's our superpower, and I think this is the missed opportunity for investors and partners, is that women tend to build businesses that are impactful because we are so, emotional is the wrong word. Empathetic is the word. Yes. I'll get in trouble for that. We're so empathetic, and we do think about our communities. We do think about bettering society, so we tend to build businesses, even if it's not directly impactful, women tend to donate more, set aside a portion of their profits more, all of that kind of stuff. So backing female founders is actually for the betterment of society as well, which is why, again, my mind boggles as to why there isn't more money going in that direction. Yeah,
Fiona Sanford (27:53):
Absolutely.
Danielle Lewis (27:54):
And because we have that level of passion and drive, they are more successful. They make more money as a business. It's interesting what the stats show. The evidence is so clear. We should be backing more women.
Fiona Sanford (28:10):
Yes, we should. So yeah, that's one of the challenges I think that I'm facing
Danielle Lewis (28:15):
And look, and it, you're not alone in that challenge. It is so infuriating and why we exist at Spark. That's the mission that we're on as well. And all I say to people is, we'll keep on the changing of the world thing. You keep pushing for your business. Oh my God, I love it so much. We could talk all day, but I always love to wrap up these podcasts with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on your time in business, what would be one piece of advice that you would give to another woman on her journey?
Fiona Sanford (28:53):
I think one of the things that I love that we do at Flourish, we are so heart led and it is all about the mission, but it's all about slowing down enough in ourselves and slowing down enough as an organization to stay really connected to the mission. And I think the times where I get burnt out all the times that I get exhausted or whatever, it's because I'm so far from the heart of what we do, and sometimes I just need that little reminder to come back to why am I here and what's the impact when I see it for sure. But actually feeling it makes a big difference. So I think, yeah, that's something I learned from our incredible founder, and she does that in every single day that she is around and doing what she does, and that's something that I need to keep reminding myself of as well.
Danielle Lewis (29:45):
I love it. It is so easy to get overwhelmed and burnt out, especially in these day and age of you have to be everywhere and do everything. I love that idea of just giving ourselves that space to reconnect with our heart and our purpose and why we're doing what we're doing.
Fiona Sanford (30:02):
Yeah, I think that why piece is so important, because ultimately if we lose that, then what's the point?
Danielle Lewis (30:09):
I love it. I love it so much. P, you are amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your story and your wisdom on the Spark tv. It's been fabulous to have you.
Fiona Sanford (30:20):
Thank you so much.
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