#awinewith Dr Angela Genoni
MEET Dr Angela, Founder of gutscience.au
You can find them here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:07):
Amazing. Angela, welcome to Spark tv. I'm so thrilled to have you here.
Dr. Angela Genoni (00:13):
Thank you, Danielle. It's great to be here today.
Danielle Lewis (00:16):
It's so good. We've just been pre-recording, reflecting on our time in Kalgoorlie, so I love that mother, regional girl at heart. Let's start off by telling everyone who you are and what you do
Dr. Angela Genoni (00:33):
Well. Okay, let's get started. My name is Angela and I am a gut microbiome scientist and registered nutritionist. And about five years ago when I finished my PhD, I kind of realized there was a big gap in the way that we translate science out to the people, and particularly in the area of gut health because everyone's really interested in it, but there's just so much complexity and confusion. And the other thing is that I love talking to people and I love chatting and I love engaging and sharing what I do. So it was a perfect fit for me to go out on my own and start my own thing. So now I've developed my own sort of academically based, but very intuitively delivered gut training program where people can learn more about their bodies and how it works and be totally in awe of how amazing we are so that they can be empowered to perhaps be more in control of their health journeys.
Danielle Lewis (01:39):
I love it. And I think you're right, especially over the last few years, the topic of gut health has become quite, I guess, top of mind, front and center, lots of coverage, and it's really interesting, I think reflecting over time, different things seem to be in the spotlight at different times, but I feel like gut health is one of those things that people kind of went, oh, okay. And it really started to explain some of the conditions or physical or mental even ailments that people had. What got you so excited about gut health that you did a PhD in it? Yeah,
Dr. Angela Genoni (02:20):
Well, it was a pretty interesting journey of how I ended up doing a PhD in that area, to be honest, because I went back to uni when my kids were very young, so I juggled my PhD with three small children in tow. And so I guess as a woman in business now I can look back and reflect on that and think, how did I do that? But it got done. So I did an honors degree, I added an honors degree onto my undergrad, and I ran a small dietary intervention in 40 women. And one of the side effects that these women reported, they were on a low carb diet. One of the side effects they reported was they all had gut disturbances or a lot of them had gut disturbances. And my supervisor at the time said, well, why don't you take that further and look into that for your PhD?
(03:12):
And I was a bit hesitant because I knew what that meant. I knew that I would be in the lab with poo samples and I was a bit like, oh, do I really want to do that? But I had three kids, I'm desensitized to all of that bodily fluids. So I just thought, oh, what the heck? And so I did it and do you know what? It was the best experience of my whole life and I would go back in at heartbeat and do it all again because I loved it. And yeah, that's how I kind of ended up in that area. But yes, I spent a lot of time in the lab analyzing samples and really kind of putting things together.
Danielle Lewis (03:50):
So what came out of that, so obviously you said that you've got these courses and ability for anyone to come online and go through and understand what's going on with them, but what are some of the issues that can happen if you do have an imbalance or gut issues?
Dr. Angela Genoni (04:10):
I think what science has taught us in the last 10 years is that just about every health condition that we could possibly think of really has been linked or has got a link with the gut microbiome. And so that's the first part. And then the second part is that we also know that diet culture hasn't worked. If you go on a diet, statistics tell us that within one year or two years, you will have regained the weight that you lost plus some. So since I finished my PhD, I thought, I think we need to take things at a different angle. If you are trying to lose weight, it gives you a bit of a negative connotation in your head and you're a bit negative on yourself that you need to get rid of something and do something better.
(04:59):
And then there's so much complexity out there around the gut, and I thought, well, why don't we help people understand how amazing their gut microbiome is and what we can, how it works, and how we can nurture that. And then by doing that, people want to take care of their health naturally, and they can do it more intuitively without being told what to do. And then the byproduct of that is often people feel better, they sleep better, they're in a better mood. They might lose weight actually, but that's not the intended outcome. It often happens, but it's not the intended outcome. So there's lots of different inputs into sort of putting a lot of things together. And I think my journey has evolved as after I finished my PhD, you have that set of knowledge, but then it's kind of, well, how do you apply that and make it applicable to the real world? Because I know my little bit of information, but really we need to get that out to people. The important thing is eating a wide variety of plant foods. How do I get people to do that?
Danielle Lewis (06:04):
And that was going to be my next question. Is it specific to the individual or is there a set of rules that we can all follow to generally improve our gut health?
Dr. Angela Genoni (06:16):
I think there's a bit of both. So in general, if we eat more plant foods and lots of different types of plant foods, then we are providing food for the microbiome. Now in saying that, there's lots of individual variations. So some plant foods might not work for you, but they work really well for me. And that's where that sort of tailored advice comes in because you can't do a one size fits all when it comes to the microbiome. We've all got a different set of little critters on board and we need to nurture what we've got already.
Danielle Lewis (06:51):
Yes. Well, I'm allergic to kale, which is the weirdest allergy on the planet.
Dr. Angela Genoni (07:00):
There's some funny jokes about kale. It's like I'm sure people have said, oh, I'm sure that's not a bad thing. You get to avoid having the yucky green stuff.
Danielle Lewis (07:09):
It's so funny. So the only way I found it out was I went on a cleanse, like a juice cleanser. I was trying to be very healthy and I'd never had it before, and I was putting it in smoothies and making kale chips and doing all of the things thinking that I was being very healthy. And I liked it. I thought it was fine. I thought it was just whatever. But it is interesting that you just made me think of that when you said plant foods and then, but everyone's a little bit different.
Dr. Angela Genoni (07:37):
Yeah, exactly. And so each type of fiber feeds different types of bacteria, and unless you understand all of those complexities that run with it, then people might not put the whole picture together and that's hard.
Danielle Lewis (07:53):
Yeah. So when you said you have this skillset, you have this knowledge, you want to bring it to the masses. So how did you go about doing that? What was the process like for you going from, okay, I've finished my PhD, I know that I'm now empowered with all of this knowledge, I know that I need to get it to the people. What was that process like for you, getting it from the university type environment or the academic environment and bringing that into more of a business commercial concept?
Dr. Angela Genoni (08:24):
Yeah, that's a really good question. And that from someone who's entrenched in the science of stuff, that's really hard. And I think most academics have got a pretty open mind and they're eager to learn and take on new skill sets. But I sort of was like, I don't know where to start to, I know I want to work for myself, but how do I do that? What do I do first? What do I do with my social media? How do I structure it all? And so I ended up hiring a business consultant to help me get going. And within the space of three months, I went from zero to having first clients on board. So I think that's worth its weight in gold. If you want to get up and running and you want to do it in a timeframe, you need that expertise and you need that guidance from people that are experts in what they do. I can deliver the science of what I do, but I need help with the other stuff.
Danielle Lewis (09:24):
I think that is the most brilliant piece of advice because I always straddle the, I need to be lean and doing things myself and figuring it out and learning, and then like, no, I just want to shortcut my success and stay in my zone of genius and get there faster. And the way I can do that is by leveraging people who've done it before.
Dr. Angela Genoni (09:48):
Yeah, exactly. And you kind of know when it's worth your time investing in learning a new skillset. And then you also know, actually this is not worth me wasting my time on because one, it's going to take me way too long to learn the skills I need to do this. And two, do I really want to do it anyway? I just want to be chatting to people about what I'm doing. So yeah, it's hard, isn't it?
Danielle Lewis (10:14):
Yeah. But it's interesting that you say that because I mean, whilst you enjoy and love the chatting piece, you're also the only person that can do that. You are the person with the knowledge. There's this great concept that I learned around thousand dollars tasks and $5 tasks and how there's a certain set of tasks that only you can do, and they are super high value to the business. And then there's a whole lot of other stuff in varying degrees that other people can do that really aren't high value to the business, that are repeatable and low value. And if you find yourself doing those tasks and not doing the thousand dollars tasks, then they're the things that you should be delegating potentially.
Dr. Angela Genoni (10:55):
I completely agree. And I think as I go through some of the things, I think when you're starting out, good to know, to understand to make the mistakes and learn what you should be doing, but then yeah, definitely getting some support is essential.
Danielle Lewis (11:11):
I love that. And makes me think, so through your business journey, obviously a real winning decision was bringing in expertise. Have there been any other decisions you've made in the business that have really made an impact on your growth?
Dr. Angela Genoni (11:30):
Yes. And I would have to say is my mindset, if you're not in the right head space to feel comfortable selling what you've got, then you clients can see that energy. Whether you say those words or not, they can sense it. And if you're not putting the right energy out into what you do and truly believe that you have value. And I think women, we are very good at underselling ourselves and giving stuff away for free and wanting to help people without charging for it, to be honest. So flipping my mindset around and just really knowing that my time is valuable, my expertise is valuable, and knowing the value of what I'm offering has been a huge part of getting going properly.
Danielle Lewis (12:22):
I love that as well. It is interesting, obviously we do this podcast here, but I listen to a lot of other trainings and experts and all of those things, and I was listening to one the other day, and it was a very similar thing around, you can learn all of the things, but if you don't take action then it doesn't matter. And the mindset is the biggest blocker to you actually taking action.
Dr. Angela Genoni (12:49):
And I was surprised at that because I guess when I made the decision to pay the money for the consultant, I had already done that mindset shift because I was already there. But I've seen some of their other clients who have really needed that nurturing and support with the mindset to get them to the end point. So I guess we're all on a different journey with that. So, and you can recognize that your mindset is not feeling the value in what you're doing, then that's one of the most critical things to work on to get you to that place where you want to be.
Danielle Lewis (13:29):
Was there anything that you specifically did to flip your mindset?
Dr. Angela Genoni (13:36):
I can't say specifically. I think I've always been a bit of a doer. So sort of I had already decided that I wanted to be my own boss, and so I was happy to go through the steps to make that happen. And I knew that would going to involve a little bit of self-reflection at times, but that's part of the process. And I did take it with the right attitude. And yeah, I guess that's part of it too. You can't take those things personally, I guess when you're in academia, it's very harsh and some of the criticism you get on papers being reviewed is really harsh and quite soul destroying sometimes. So we're kind of used to that.
Danielle Lewis (14:19):
We used to that you already have thick skin. Yes,
Dr. Angela Genoni (14:21):
Yes. You have to have thick skin. When you submit your hard earned work for a publication and they send it back with red pen all over it and really harsh comments, you learn pretty quick to not take it personally.
Danielle Lewis (14:35):
Oh my God, I feel like social media is the equivalent to that. People are showing up and giving you unsolicited advice on how you are running your business in life
Dr. Angela Genoni (14:46):
Or just giving you advice on what you already know. I participate in lots of forums in gut health and people like to tell me something they've seen on YouTube, and I'm just like, okay, sure, sure, okay.
Danielle Lewis (15:01):
It's hilarious, isn't it? I dunno. I feel like it's the people who are not chasing big dreams just have all of this time to dole out this advice to people that are already on that journey. Blows my mind a little bit.
Dr. Angela Genoni (15:16):
I think there was one, and I did see it on social media, so I'm probably just as bad, but there were some comments somewhere, no one who's achieving more than you will criticize you. It's the people that are below where you're at are the ones that are making the criticisms. And that kind of has stuck with me. So when I get those comments now I'm just like, it's okay. People who are already running a successful business are not going to comment those types of things, so I don't need to worry about that.
Danielle Lewis (15:45):
Oh my God, it's so true. I mean, in saying that, it's hard not to take it personally. Sometimes I feel like that's an ever evolving skill to learn your advice of don't take it personally and is an ever evolving skill, but one I think that is just so, so important.
Dr. Angela Genoni (16:04):
But it's hard though because you put your heart into things when you put them out there on social media and yeah, people can be a bit harsh sometimes.
Danielle Lewis (16:12):
People can be so harsh. It just, yes, it boggles my mind a little
Dr. Angela Genoni (16:16):
Bit.
Danielle Lewis (16:18):
And I think too, I mean I am shocked that you haven't mentioned gut health as one of the key factors in your business success, but it is interesting, as you were talking about gut health being one of the primary contributors to a lot of ailments out there, it just makes me reflect on my own journey in business and how energy has been the biggest problem for me showing up every day and doing all the work. And I know when I am actually paying attention to things like gut health and movement and mindset and all of the things that perhaps we don't learn in a business degree, that's when it is so much easier. And I do have so much more energy. So yeah, it really interests me the connection between health and business,
Dr. Angela Genoni (17:12):
And they really go hand in hand. And one of the things I they're aiming to do is to implement my program in some corporate settings. So just do a sort of modified program for a wellness program offering. And I think that is really important because everyone wants to know about the gut, and it's a really good way to get people to understand that actually they might be more productive at work tomorrow if they just think about what they're eating tonight for dinner or if they just get out and have a little bit of movement, then that has a positive impact on the microbiome too, and all of those things together. If companies want us to be productive with what we're doing, then we need to have healthy and happy staff and they go hand in hand. And the other thing on that is that when I've been studying, I've done a PhD with three small children in tow. I've worked full time, the kids are teenagers now, but I still juggle everything. And I couldn't not do that unless I looked after myself because trying to juggle stuff is hard as it is as a mom. And unless you take the time to have some time for yourself to eat well and exercise, it probably wouldn't happen.
Danielle Lewis (18:39):
Yeah, you're so right. I mean, everything seems to be a full-time job, whether it's like being a mom is a full-time job. Being a business owner is a full-time job. Looking after ourselves is a full-time job. You just start stacking them on top of each other and it's no wonder that people are burnt out, unwell, not excited about life. It doesn't surprise us anymore that people are feeling like this when they're just cramming so much in their day. And I feel like, and I love what you're doing because it is sometimes the education piece that's missing. And I think sometimes we go reach for quick fixes. We know that I know I probably shouldn't have another coffee today, but if I just have another coffee I can get through this afternoon, if I just do this, I can get through the next hour of doing X, Y, z. Rather than having that foundational layer of, oh, okay, this is really what I need to look after myself and have enough energy to manage all of these things. But if we're not educated and we don't have access to that information, we dunno what we dunno.
Dr. Angela Genoni (19:51):
Yeah, exactly. And taking some of those quick fixes, like having a coffee late in the day then might stop us sleeping well tonight, and then we don't, again, tomorrow's equally as bad. So just those quick wine. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I should tell you a funny story about that. No, don't we? My Garmin does not like it when I drink wine. I've got this fancy Garmin for my training and my heart rate variability, which is a measure of fitness and also sort of general wellbeing, and it's quite sensitive. It's quite a good marker. But when I have a glass of wine at night, the next morning, it's really low. It's not a good, it's not a good, so it stinks. I've been over training when my heart rate variability goes down that much. Oh my God. Yeah. Last night I had a glass of wine for dinner and I knew that was going to happen, so I took the Garmin off when I went to bed and I was like, Garmin, this is not something you need to know about. That's right. You not need to know that I had a glass of wine tonight. Oh my
Danielle Lewis (20:55):
God,
Dr. Angela Genoni (20:55):
I'm not telling you about that.
Danielle Lewis (20:57):
It's so funny though, isn't it? I, and I think sometimes we think, well, one glass, it's fine. At least it's not half a bottle or a bottle, whatever. But I was even talking to my husband this morning and we were talking about when if we do have a couple of glasses of wine, especially later in the evening, you get up to go to the toilet, so your sleep's interrupted and it just seems like it piles on again if you're haven't quite had the healthiest dinner or you've, okay, now we've had a couple of glasses of wine and now I haven't slept so well, and it's just pile and pile and pile that detracts from the energy. We need to do the pile and pile and pile all the things that we're going to do in the day.
Dr. Angela Genoni (21:36):
Exactly. And I think sometimes with diets, people try and make all the changes all at once to try and improve things, and just by itself, that's overwhelming and you wonder why it's not sustainable. It's because you're trying to change too many things at once and you're already stressed out and feeling under the pump with everything you've got on. So part of what I do in my program is just doing small incremental changes and then taking the time to notice how you're feeling at each of those steps. Just changing breakfast, and we work with working out what foods we can swap out and change out for that particular meal. But yeah, it's just once you've got that habit down pat, like the atomic habits type style thing, then you can move on to the next one. And over time, that means your gut microbiome can adapt more slowly, and then you start feeling better, and then you want to do more and continue the process. And that's where we want to get to that sustainable endpoint where then the whole thing is a habit, not just a six week thing that you can't sustain.
Danielle Lewis (22:46):
I feel like that is such great advice for literally anything that you're trying to achieve. Yes, yes, it is. So I think, and especially as ambitious business owners, we go, okay, I'm going to be on social media every day and I'm going to do this every day and I'm going to change my diet. I'm going to run 10 Ks. We just go into this. I will be a perfect person tomorrow.
Dr. Angela Genoni (23:08):
And then we wonder why we can't survive the week
Danielle Lewis (23:12):
All the day. I'm
Dr. Angela Genoni (23:13):
Like,
Danielle Lewis (23:14):
By the end of the day, I'm like, no, that's it. I am having a wine. I can't deal with my life. I love that so much. It's just true. I feel like just small steps, incremental improvement. I refer to it as tricking myself. I'm tricking myself into healthy habits or tricking myself into doing, changing the way I run the business or do whatever. It's just like if I just do it in such a small way that I barely notice the impact that stacks up over time,
Dr. Angela Genoni (23:44):
And then it's embedded in your routines before you know it, and then all of a sudden you're feeling good. Particularly when it comes to the gut. People try and change their diet all at once, and then they've just got the sorest tummy or they're on the toilet all day, or it's not a comfortable experience, although things are just quickly, we don't want that to happen either. So yeah, taking it slowly is actually the best option.
Danielle Lewis (24:09):
I love it. I love it so much. Angela, I always love to wrap these podcasts with one last piece of advice. So reflecting on your time in business, would there be a piece of advice that you would give to another woman in business to help her on her journey?
Dr. Angela Genoni (24:28):
I would say don't doubt yourself. You are the expert at what you do. Just know your value and your worth and hold true to that.
Danielle Lewis (24:39):
Absolutely incredible. Thank you so much for sharing your journey and your wisdom with the smart community. I really truly appreciate you.
Dr. Angela Genoni (24:48):
Thank you for having me, Danielle. Been lovely to chat.
✨ Thank you to IP Australia for supporting the SPARK podcast and women in business ✨
