#awinewith Cassie Li
MEET Cassie
Cassie is the Founder of Eethos.
Find Cassie here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:06):
Woohoo. Cassie, welcome to Spark tv. I'm so excited to have you here.
Cassie Li (00:12):
Thank you for having me. I'm really glad to be here.
Danielle Lewis (00:15):
So good. And now we have been working together for, I dunno, it's got to be over a year now, right?
Cassie Li (00:24):
Probably, yeah, A bit more than half a year, I would say. But time flies.
Danielle Lewis (00:30):
It does, doesn't it? And so I'm so excited that you're here to share your story. So why don't we kick things off there and just tell people who are you and what do you do?
Cassie Li (00:42):
Yeah, for sure. So my name is Cassie and I'm the founder of Ethos. We are a social enterprise, so we sell eco-friendly laundry cap shoes, and part of the profit goes to support a youth mental health charity. So a lot of the laundry detergents in the market are make up of to 90% water content, and it doesn't make sense that we are transporting water around in a plastic jug. That's why we are getting rid of the plastic drugs, and we are packaging them in a biodegradable film in a recyclable carpet box. So there's no scooping, no measuring, no mess. You just place a pot in the laundry machine and then hopefully that will make the whole laundry process easier to the planet and also supporting a course.
Danielle Lewis (01:42):
I love it so much, and I have used them myself, and they smell divine, so I'm total advocate for them. But I mean, look, laundry detergent, how on earth did you get into laundry detergent?
Cassie Li (01:59):
Yeah, so I think I have some unfair advantage in there. So I grew up in China and I happened to grow up to have grown up in a family business where my parents have the manufacturing facilities. And so they've been producing shampoos, conditioners, and household products for a while. So kind of grew up knowing a lot about the production side of the business. And so when I started my corporate career at some point I just felt like I actually have some resources that I can do things and maybe start a business. And so when I had some ideas we thought, I thought leveraging what I know would be a great idea and laundry detergent, that's I think maybe just a special moment walking down the supermarket aisle because I just see this so colorful plastic containers on the aisle and it's like I know we have a product and I know that it's going to solve a problem and I know how to produce it, and I know the manufacturer, which is my family, and I can control the production and the supply chain a little bit more than what other people could do, knowing the family and knowing who actually produces them.
(03:30):
So that's how I ended up with laundry detergent.
Danielle Lewis (03:34):
I love it so much because you're right, laundry, it's just an integral part of everyone's life, and as much as you love it or hate it, it's something that we all do. And there's always memories of your mom doing the washing and it's such a family affair, so kind of cool that you would get into laundry detergent. It's just so niche. I love it. And you mentioned the corporate career, so what happened? Yeah, I know you said that you had a corporate career and then you said, I've got all of these resources, why not start a business? Was there a catalyst that kind of pushed you over the edge and said, Nope, that's it, I'm going to do my own thing?
Cassie Li (04:18):
Yeah, so looking back, so I went to university in the UK and I started my first job in a consumer electronics brand as an analyst in their headquarter. And I think it was just an easy path as a very young person to have a stable salary. And I actually love being a data analyst. I still do do some of the data analytics in a company right now, and I love that in the data world, in any businesses, there are many opinions about what people should do in the marketing team for or r and d, but the data doesn't lie and it's there. And I love that being a data analyst adds so much value to any business. So yeah, that's how I started the corporate courier. And somehow we ended up in Australia because my partner at the time had a job offer. So we both migrated to Sydney, but I guess I was going through some quarter life crisis and just not really completely happy and fulfilled in the job that I was in, and I didn't make the right choice in the beginning.
(05:55):
Actually a few years ago, I think back in 2019, I just had this big passion for I want to start a business and I just quit my job without a really solid plan. And I thought, I'm going to be this. I love it person who's going to years and years later, people would think about my story as someone who quit their job and started this business. But it didn't work out because obviously I didn't have a solid plan. And then the rushed decision of just quitting my day job so quickly gave myself a really, I guess, stressful financial situation where I had to think about paying the bills while starting up something small. And I just had so many ideas at the time and I wasn't sure which one I should pursue, but after a few months of that being crazy and ambitious, and I actually realized that no, I have to do this slowly in a gradual way and prove my idea, have an MVP and actually do some market research, but all of that's not going to pay the bill. So I actually went back to find a job to support myself first while I figure things out. So that was a huge lesson there that I learned that we can all start a business, but we don't have to quit our job just yet figure out what we are doing. So to not put ourself in that kind of stress where Yeah, that's what I,
Danielle Lewis (07:39):
Yeah, I mean, I really agree with you. I often see Instagram quotes where they're like, go all in and burn the bridges and do all this stuff. And I'm like, no, that is just a recipe for stress. I actually love the approach of having a job, having a backup, even if it is only part-time, but something that's like financial security, there is financial stress is the worst kind of stress. I think it's just hangs over you every minute of every day. And it's really hard to be creative and love what you're doing and run a business if you're so stressed out.
Cassie Li (08:17):
Yeah, you're so right. And I mean, don't get me wrong, it works for someone. It definitely works for some people when they just have all the, it's stars aligned for them and at that point they just quit and everything works out. But for many of us, it doesn't go that way. And yeah, that's the big lesson I learned.
Danielle Lewis (08:39):
Yeah, no, it's a good lesson. I did the same thing. I worked full time when I was building scrunch, and I just used to sneak off in my lunch hour and do things and work all night. And it was kind of exciting at the time as well. I'd be sitting at my desk at work and I'd be thinking about the business and what it could be. But yeah, I think that is such a great lesson to leave people with that you don't actually have to throw everything in to start. You can't actually chip away at it and build it. I mean, I know we'd all like to be overnight successes. Nobody works like that.
Cassie Li (09:18):
And it's what the media highlights every day, and that's what gets people's attention. And you always wish you are one of those people who have overnight success, but to be honest, most of them would have worked years and years to get to that point of what seemingly as overnight success, I guess. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (09:37):
Yeah. It's like, well, if 10 years is overnight, then sure.
Cassie Li (09:42):
Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (09:43):
Oh, so good. I love it. So we had a corporate job, we quit, we started a business, went, oh my god, too much stress. Didn't quite think that through back into a job as you started to build the business. So what have you found, so you have a physical product, which is super cool. I love physical product based businesses, but there's so many different things to think about. Obviously getting supply chain, I mean, I know you've got the competitive advantage there because the manufacturers and all that kind of stuff, but still considering how much product and inventory to have, where to sell it, whether you sell it online or in retailers or I know you do markets as well. How has that whole process been? Has it been just a matter of testing everything and seeing what works or what's kind of your thought process been over the last few years?
Cassie Li (10:42):
Yeah, that's a great question. And to be very honest, I haven't figured out all of that about where Me neither.
(10:51):
Yeah, but like you said, it is just a lot of trial and error. So with like you mentioned, Danny, with the physical product, you start with the packaging design and the formula, the ingredients that go into a product and all of that. And I think also accepting that it's not going to be perfect the first time. And that was a really hard, I guess not an easy attitude to have because when you start something, you treat it as your little baby and you want it to be perfect. And that's just unrealistic. And no matter how good you feel that the packaging or design, how good it is at that time, years later, you might still look at it and realize, oh my God, have I done that? And I guess for me, I probably didn't have too much of a methodology. I didn't have an accurate model trying to figure out pricing or how much to order.
(12:00):
I guess with the imperfect information I had at the time of how much a container could feed and roughly how much I could afford with the lead time, I just kind of gauge what the best decision is. And shipping was really expensive at the time with the tension between China and Australia. A lot of logistics company are coming, sorry, they're going to China from Australia empty with all the trade embargo. And we had the beef and Bali ban at some point where there was some tensions. And so, so just working out roughly what's needed, not perfect, but accepting it, that's going to be okay in terms of marketing and sales channel, that's a really steep learning curve because I quickly realized that how a lot of us having launched the website and having the product ready thinking that I've done so much, oh, it's done.
(13:06):
Yeah, it's the very, very beginning. And to be honest, one of a really good lesson I've learned is also that I've been focusing so much on the product, and I guess that's quite common when you are just the one person doing it and that's what you do in the beginning to get ready to launch. And I hadn't really thought through a lot of the marketing strategy and sales strategy, and that's why I found the Spark Founder program really useful. Oh, yes, really targeted to marketing and sales and being a woman in business. This is just probably speaking for myself, and I just always lack that confidence to speak out for myself and to promote my brand. I wish I could do that a bit more naturally, and I often still feel shy to talk about it and this imposter syndrome of, oh my God, I am a business owner. No, I don't feel that way.
(14:15):
But yeah, it's been a journey and we are still a very new business. We only launched about a year and a half ago, only just started to have a small community of repeated customers. But I would say my customers are my motivation to continue. And because when you first launch a product, you don't really know how people will react to it. And I guess it's also, I feel that in the beginning I always assumed the worst case scenario where people would attack me online and complaints, but actually none of that happened, and it turned out to be a bit more positive than I originally imagined and still a lot to do. We are going slowly, and as I told you earlier, I often feel that feeling of I could have done more and there's so much more I want to do, and I think I am coming to this turning point where I need to think about delegating and a lot of the business responsibilities and just accepting the fact that I can't do everything on my own. But yeah, that's where we are at.
Danielle Lewis (15:42):
I love it. That's amazing. It's such a cool, I mean, you've just really articulated everything that every business owner, especially women go through. I love that you said you thought maybe people would attack you online or they'd complain. I'm like, because I know your product,
(16:04):
It's so funny. But we do do that. We build up this picture in our mind like, oh my God, if I post that, what are they going to say? Or if I talk about it, if I show up and I start talking about this, people are going to be like, what an idiot. Why can she do that? I still think that, and I actually love doing that stuff, and I still have those days where I'm like, oh my God, everyone is going to think I'm a complete idiot. So it's so interesting that we do that we like, but what I love the most is that even though you had those feelings, you still kept taking steps forward and you launched it, you do the marketing, you've grown the community, you've got repeat purchases, you've proven the model. And yes, there are going to be so many different things that you can try, so many things you can tweak, but now you have that amazing foundation you can start building on it, which is like, that is huge congrats moment. That is a huge feat. So you're amazing.
Cassie Li (17:04):
Thank you. That's very kind of you to say.
Danielle Lewis (17:08):
No, I mean totally mean it. I don't think business ever really gets easy, but those initial stages where you are trying to figure everything out can be super challenging. Even though you might've had some connections with manufacturing, you've got everything else to figure out still. So yeah, it is such an interesting process. What do you think, actually, I wanted to ask you. So one of the key points of difference for the brand is your impact partner. So a percentage of the profits donated to their mental health charity. Talk to me about that, why you made that decision to be a brand and a company that
Cassie Li (17:48):
Cares about a cause. Yeah, definitely. So just to take a step back, growing up in China, mental health is not a thing. Nobody really has any awareness or have any education on it. So it's always been a cultural taboo, I would say, to say someone is mentally ill. So I really didn't hear any of my family or people around me talking about mental health growing up. And then I just personally went through a really tough journey. It started when I was in my first job, and I guess growing up in that environment, I became really harsh and critical of myself and developed some really unhealthy thinking habits like black and white thinking I'm either really good at something or I'm total failure. And over time in my mental health, it's like an elastic rubber band. I just kept stretching it and it broke eventually. And so yeah, I first noticed something was wrong in my first corporate job.
(19:07):
I was just afraid to ask questions because I was worried that people would think I wasn't good enough for the job. And I tried to figure everything out by myself, and eventually I became really stressed, and when I received a new email in the inbox, my hands started shaking and I would go to the bathroom and crying. Any little task became really difficult and I wouldn't be able to sleep and rest at night. And over time, it was just a vitreous cycle, but I guess hadn't realized that it was something that I needed professional help, and I was just so afraid to talk to anyone about my real thoughts because of the stigma and the shame of knowing how people would perceive and think of me. Anyway, so the charity element of the business is what I guess I wanted a business to not just have a commercial value but also an impact into the community and the society.
(20:23):
A big part of it is because of my personal journey of recovering and surviving and attempts to harm myself with those really dark thoughts. And because I had those feelings and went through that tough journey when I was transitioning from a student to a young adult, I believe that young people are a really good when they're in schools and university, that's the perfect time to educate them with not being ashamed of asking for help when they need to. So yeah, so that's why we are supporting a charity called Illa. They work specifically with young people. They run workshops in schools and universities and encourage young people to get help when they feel the need to.
Danielle Lewis (21:20):
Oh my God, that is absolutely incredible. It is really interesting. And I mean, I think we're lucky in Australia because we do probably have a little bit more of an openness to talk about mental health and mental health issues. But even still, still with that, I know a lot of people who have struggled have really struggled and really struggled to ask for help. So I'm so impressed that you turned an experience that was negative, potentially life-threatening and have actually taken that and are now giving back and helping other people who might be going through something similar. It's absolutely incredible.
Cassie Li (22:04):
Yeah, definitely. And it's just not an easy journey, like you said, so many people struggle with it. And it's funny how if we have a flu or a call, we won't be ashamed to say, I need to rest. I need to go to the doctor. You wouldn't ask someone who has fever to calm down yourself without Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (22:27):
Exactly. Yes,
Cassie Li (22:30):
That's right. So actually I think looking back, I reached the lowest point in this journey when I was constantly told to just cheer up and be positive, but I couldn't. And the moment I realized I couldn't, that was the moment when I really reached the lowest point knowing that I couldn't control this and the thoughts were tormenting. And that's when I began to go down a really not healthy route of trying to harm myself. But I'm all better now with professional help and the support of my family. And it takes a lot of trial and error of trying different treatment or even different medications. And even now, there are still good and bad days for me, and I recognize that my mental health is a continuous journey and I've got to persevere with it. And what I found really helpful for myself is to schedule time to do those meditations scheduled time for those anxious thoughts and to not try to suppress them and just let 'em feel them, but let them go.
(23:51):
And I have a journal that I can note down my emotions and feelings. That's been really helpful over the years to, it's like I have this friend who is a journal who's always listening to me. That's cool. I love that they're not going to judge me. And it's almost like an emotional outlet. And what else? I've also learned to not be so harsh to myself in the past. I would be really critical of myself, and I would even say very unkind words to myself in my mind like, oh, you're a failure. You don't deserve this, but I've actually learned to treat myself as a friend. You wouldn't say those unkind words to someone else, to a friend of your, so why would you say that to yourself? So it's a learning curve, and I'm sure you would agree, Danny, that in the business world, that's even harder for a business owner, especially women, to take care and prioritize their mental health because we take on so much.
Danielle Lewis (25:01):
Oh, I totally agree with you. I mean, I am also guilty of saying very mean things to myself sometimes, but I do love what you said about it being a forever process and I think it's a amazing that you are where you are now. But I do like that you acknowledge that it's something that you always have to work on. I think you said before a rubber van that you stretch. It's kind of like a muscle. We don't go for a run once, and we're healthy for the rest of our lives. So it is something that we do need to incorporate into our day. And I think you're right. As business owners, it is so easy to look at our to-do list or look at something we tried that doesn't work and just want to throw it all in and give up. And I love your advice of journaling, of scheduling time. I must admit, I find the best thing that works for me is getting away, actually just going and sitting in the sun, reading a book, going into the pool, just something to get away. I feel like we feel as business owners, we feel guilty if we are not working 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and it's so unhealthy.
Cassie Li (26:22):
Definitely. Yeah. It's almost like you feel guilty when you rest, but not realizing that to rest is part of the job to get back your strength.
Danielle Lewis (26:35):
Totally. That's such a good way to put it. Resting is a part of your job. Exactly. You must rest.
Cassie Li (26:45):
Oh,
Danielle Lewis (26:45):
That's incredible. So what does the future hold? What is next for you as a fantastic woman in business? What are you looking forward to for the rest of this year?
Cassie Li (26:57):
I'm really looking forward growing our online channels, and I know we will start working together on some of the social stuff, which I'm really excited about. I'm
Danielle Lewis (27:08):
So excited about it too. Yeah.
Cassie Li (27:14):
But to be honest, I feel that I have a general direction. I also don't want to stress myself too much for having a very rigid goal, and I'm kind of taking it a day or month at a time for now. I love that, knowing that I've got a lot on in my personal life as well. So yeah,
Danielle Lewis (27:38):
I think that is incredible, and I just think that that is the best approach. Sometimes when we put these big lofty goals up, it's more stressful than it is helpful, and actually chunking it down into just looking at the day ahead of me or the month ahead of me is great advice for also retaining your sanity as well.
Cassie Li (28:00):
Yeah, definitely. And I've actually heard many of the Spark TV or podcast episodes, and a lot of the lady entrepreneurs would say, dream big, but take small baby step at a time and kind of following that advice because yeah, we chatted the other day. You always see these big business milestones of people getting millions of funding or being really successful, but I guess we got to celebrate our small wins in our journey and just take it easy.
Danielle Lewis (28:40):
Yeah, exactly. I love it so much. That is the best advice is if we could leave everyone with a message rest and take small steps.
Cassie Li (28:50):
And if you want to start a business, don't rush to quit your job. Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (28:54):
Don't rush to quit your job. That's the top three advice from this show. I love it. Oh, Cassie, you are so amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your story with the Spark community. I know that everyone listening in can relate and take some of those nuggets of wisdom. You are incredible. Thank you so much.
Cassie Li (29:16):
Thank you so much.
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