#awinewith Amanda Crawford
MEET Amanda
Amanda is the Founder of Leadership Shapers.
Find Amanda here:
Transcript
Danielle Lewis (00:09):
Oh my gosh. Amanda, welcome to Spark tv. How are you?
Amanda Crawford (00:15):
I'm great, thank you. Apart from being a little bit cold, but I know we're all contending with that. Do what we need.
Danielle Lewis (00:22):
That's right, that's right. Well, thank you for being here on Spark tv. Let's start out by giving everyone your backstory. So super interested to I guess find, how did you get to start in your own business? What was the career journey? Did you have a career or was it just business straight up? How did that process unfold? When was that spark moment where you decided to get into business for yourself?
Amanda Crawford (00:50):
It's a bit of a windy journey, so as
Danielle Lewis (00:54):
It always is, don't worry. Well, I'm just going to sit back here and listen to sit back
Amanda Crawford (00:59):
And relax. I have gotten I think quite good at the abridged version of it. So I'm an accountant, so that's the original part. So I did commerce at uni, went and actually worked in professional practice, but insolvency, which is sort of a little bit of a left field accounting path to take. So I have a very good understanding of what not to do in business and what has led to many business failures. So that was I think a really good grounding. I think having that sort of professional services background, obviously the accounting side of it, definitely foundational. And I did spend about seven years doing it, so that's also quite a while in a pretty interesting industry. And from there I ended up having a bunch of consulting commercial type roles, but always in that sort of finance projects corporate space. So I was the operations manager of an English language school, a consultant into a legal firm, which is interesting.
(02:02):
So an accountant in a law firm. But I actually spent about a year there as a knowledge management consultant, so building this massive database and all sorts of things. So even from back there, if I kind of draw some threads to where I am now, it's about that sort of connecting people boosting performance. In that case it was about having all of this collective knowledge and how do we leverage that. So that's actually, if I think about it, quite foundational as well. And then as I said, some operational type roles, big corporate sale transactions. So I actually worked Graham's home loans as a commercial manager there. So that was a great role connecting finance and sales and marketing sides of the business. And then went on to work on the float of the Rams home loan business. Oh wow. Yeah, that was an interesting one. We actually floated into the global financial crisis.
Danielle Lewis (03:02):
Oh, fabulous.
Amanda Crawford (03:03):
So that was great, but we got the float away and then ended up actually selling the business again that same year because basically everything tanked so well. I
Danielle Lewis (03:14):
Mean it's so interesting. I know we haven't even got to your business yet, but I'm like, we talked to so many founders and it's like these are all the missing pieces that most founders have. Most founders go product creative something, solve a problem, and then they miss business, finance, legal operations. They're missing all of those skills, but it's like you went out and you got all of those skills first. This is really interesting
Amanda Crawford (03:39):
And yeah, I like that you've kind of identified that, and I think that's right, and I think that if I sort of fast forward that combination of that commercial background and my career really sort of ends up into halves. And the last role I had in that kind of corporate, big corporate space was another major sale transaction and then career phase two or maybe 1.5 was having kids. So that was the fork in the road.
Danielle Lewis (04:11):
Is that the biggest challenge thus
Amanda Crawford (04:13):
Far? Absolutely. I describe that. I mean, I had some of those roles I had previously and definitely those big sales transactions, I mean, we're talking crazy hours, really intense deadlines, et cetera. You work really hard, massive pressure, but doesn't come anywhere near having children. That's definitely the toughest and obviously ongoing challenge. So I've got three kids, so my eldest just started high school, so the career reinvention aligns with that. And so I finished the contract I was on, and so I spent about a year not actually thinking about what would come next. And so the path down the coaching road, so that was the avenue that I took. It was a couple of light bulb moments. The first was at the end of the day, my highlight and big excitement to declare was that nappies were on special. And in that moment I realized I had to do something else.
Danielle Lewis (05:14):
Oh, no. Quick
Amanda Crawford (05:16):
Changed. It was literally one of those things where it was like, that cannot be the highlight of my day. And I feel I've been very blessed. The universe has been kind to me in sort of delivering moments and opportunities, if you like, and it is then very much about taking them. Absolutely. So it's having your eyes open. So I see that nappy moment as the eye opener to, right, I need to do something else. The next sort of little window into that opportunity was hanging out with my mother's group and our babies were probably not quite a year at that stage. And just in a really casual conversation evolved. And one of the girls dropped to me, have you ever thought about coaching? And so this is 12 or so years ago at the time, my brain literally went to tennis coaching.
(06:11):
Back then it wasn't really a thing. Sure. And she's like, no, no life coaching. I'm like, oh no. But that was the start of that process and actually looking into that and realizing that in all of the different roles that I'd had, I had sat there in that coaching capacity, which is around creating insight for other people with that very much that solution focus. And if I think about having to walk into a failed business and you basically take over and have to run it until you work out what to do with it. So I know nothing about that business, so I have to be able to ask the right questions to get the answers, to get people engaged and aligned in their interests and all those sorts of things. And what I realized was that's all that fundamental to coaching. So then I went and trained as a brain-based NeuroLeadership coach and did that on and off as I then had the other two children and started off doing the life coaching and got to a point once I'd had the three kids that I'd wanted to then look at, okay, well how do I get into the corporate space?
(07:24):
So that's my background. I had 15 odd years in corporate and just through leveraging connections and basically asking for the opportunity to say, look, this is what I can do, got anyone who would fit the bill in terms of needing this type of coaching, and started from there. And so I did do that as just me, myself in a, so that consulting type role. So I guess that really is the first business that it run. And then we had other corporate structures and so forth. So I always ran the finances of those household finances, all of that sort of stuff. And then through that and through the connections in the coaching space, was invited to join a coach network, so based up in Brisbane, who was sort of building out the coaches there to really focus on at that point in the education space. So it was back when the registered training organizations were kind of the rage that all went a bit pear shaped afterwards.
(08:30):
But it got me into the business and I actually then over the next year or so ended up being the CFO and a co-owner of that coach network. So that was really the big step up in terms of that exposure to running a business. We had about 20 odd coaches. So it was sizable. Yeah, it was sizable. And my decision, leave that business and go out on my own with leadership Shapers was a really tough one, but the dynamics changed. My business partner, it was actually her and her daughter. So it was a tricky dynamic for me. I'm based in Sydney, they're based in Brisbane, and at the time I was looking to go in a different direction, really focus on mentoring and particularly for our young women running a pilot at university and also really leveraging that corporate space. So, so that was back 2019.
(09:32):
And even then it was sort of quite passive until really 2020 where I know for all of us, the world kind of turned upside down. But about a month before that, my own little world had its own set and I separated, so three kids from a 16 year marriage. So that was really a okay pedal to the metal, we've got to make something happen here. And so it's been on the journey with that for the last two and a half years. And again, I think just really blessed in the opportunities, but also I know that I'm good at relationships and connections.
Danielle Lewis (10:12):
Yeah, you're amazing. Yes.
Amanda Crawford (10:16):
And that's where I've been able to, I suppose, build the foundations of leadership shapers.
Danielle Lewis (10:26):
So what would you classify, how would you describe Leadership Shapers today?
Amanda Crawford (10:31):
I'm glad you asked Danielle. I've recently participated in this amazing program that got me to really focus in on what it is that we do and who we service. So let me give it a roll. So Leadership Shapers, we help close the gap between where leaders, teams and organizations are and where they want to be. So we work with corporates, large and small and associations, and we discover the unique challenges and then we design and deliver bespoke solutions that incorporate coaching, profiling, mentoring, facilitation.
Danielle Lewis (11:16):
Wow, I love it so much. Isn't it amazing how all of those experiences, I know you mentioned the universe and doors opening and bits and pieces and decisions being hard to move on and those sorts of things, but isn't it amazing how all of those things kind of led to where you are today?
Amanda Crawford (11:37):
Absolutely. And I think that that's something I do talk to about my clients as well. And often dipping back into those past experience to demonstrate people are feeling stuck or if they're looking at a challenge ahead of them, it's really amazing how often people have actually walked the path before. And so rather than having to look at it as treading new ground, okay, well what can you actually draw from past experience that's going to help you now?
Danielle Lewis (12:10):
Yeah, absolutely. I love that actually, you do sometimes when you're getting in your own head a little bit and things are feeling a bit overwhelming, it's very easy to forget all of the amazing things you've done, all of the lessons you've learned. And it's almost like you sit down with a blank page and you're like, thou shit, what do I do now?
Amanda Crawford (12:29):
And we've kind of got just our brains working against us as well. So our brains have a negativity bias. I've got this great little cartoon where it's sort of this image of two brains, and there's one with this big pile of all of the good stuff saying, look at this, look at this. And then there's the brain, the other brain, this one thing that's the bad. And it's like, hang on, I can't look. I'm busy. And that's exactly what, but it's part of our survival from way back in caveman days that we had to be alert to the threat. So that's what our brain scans for, that's what we look for. And so unless we intentionally stop and focus on what is going well, what has gone well, what can I be grateful for, all that optimism and that kind of underpins and fuels us for going forward and helps to get us unstuck.
Danielle Lewis (13:24):
And do you, just while we're on that topic, because I know this will affect every person on the planet who's listening to this, are there any ways that we can trigger ourselves out of those negativity or negative conversations that we're having with ourselves?
Amanda Crawford (13:40):
Yes. And this comes up so often and really probably the key thing is if you do nothing else is to pay attention. It's about awareness. It starts with awareness. And what I would say to people is, what are those voices saying? And just even having a conversation about it and kind of putting someone on the spot to say, and what tone of voice is that? How do you actually talk to yourself? Then the next piece is, okay, well do you talk to anyone else like that?
Danielle Lewis (14:13):
And is it alike?
Amanda Crawford (14:15):
Exactly. And then evidence, and you've basically gone to the second key point, which is what's your evidence for that?
Danielle Lewis (14:23):
So
Amanda Crawford (14:23):
It's
Danielle Lewis (14:24):
Such a good question to ask
Amanda Crawford (14:27):
Because most of the time, well a lot of the time, even just getting to that first question of going, what's the tone of voice? What is that voice saying? People will often follow it up themselves going, well, I know it's not true, but that when you say, okay, what's the evidence? And then they can't find that. But again, if you think about those two piles of the good, the bad, it's sort of no wonder. So again, the other piece is that whole consciousness and awareness and stopping to take the time to catalog,
(14:59):
Catalog your successes. At the end of the day, if it's on your commute home or while you brush your teeth, it's not about committing an enormous amount of time. It's not about if you journaling or the idea of that, it's kind of like, oh, I just know I'm not going to do it. Don't do it. Don't even try because it's another set yourself up for failure, but everyone hopefully brushes their teeth at nighttime, use that or something else that you do. It's that piggybacking the habits kind of thing. But even just that piece of celebrating your wins for the day have a huge difference.
Danielle Lewis (15:36):
I write myself love notes. Oh,
Amanda Crawford (15:38):
Yay. I love that. I love it, love it, love it. So
Danielle Lewis (15:41):
That way, because invariably you're having a moment at your desk and then I just look up and there's a little pink poster in it with a love heart, and they're like, you're doing great. Or This is working, keep going. It's interrupting for me. It's exactly what you said like that, the acknowledge. So I am just becoming that. The thing for me, it's just interrupting the flow of negativity. If you're having a little moment and that, Hey, whatcha doing, giving yourself a little pep talk I think sometimes helps.
Amanda Crawford (16:12):
Oh, I think I love that. And actually I'm going to steal that now thanks to
Danielle Lewis (16:15):
Absolutely. Please
Amanda Crawford (16:17):
The interrupt. Yeah, it's that circuit breaker.
Danielle Lewis (16:21):
Yeah.
Amanda Crawford (16:22):
Yeah. So it's that firstly noticing, you've got to notice that it's going on, that dialogue, that record on repeat, whatever it is that resonates with you, what are the triggers that that is happening? And then as you said that, interrupting it with whatever you do, and I love your little love notes, I have a collection of things, so this is one of my little interrupters.
Danielle Lewis (16:47):
Oh, cool. Is that bru?
Amanda Crawford (16:49):
It's brute. And so my partner bought me that and just had some really nice thoughts about it and that all good, the good stuff. He reminds me, there's some connections there about just having a bit of fun and resilience and all of those sorts of things. So I do think that you having just those little triggers is really good and really simple. People just find the right, totally.
Danielle Lewis (17:16):
And that's the interesting thing. None of these things cost money or a lot of time either, which I really love. It's sort of, yeah, why not be happy when you're having a little moment?
Amanda Crawford (17:33):
And it's that self acknowledgement that's not about being boastful in any way, and particularly, and females are just not good at this, is that needing that sort of validation or acknowledgement. And if we can deliver that to ourselves, we are not reliant on outside of us for that. And again, it's that looking for evidence because we will find the evidence the other way that we're not doing well enough that we're not doing enough. It's just there's something weird in our scripting around that. So I do tend to talk about that quite a lot, coach around that.
Danielle Lewis (18:25):
No, and it's so funny because I don't think it even matters where you're up to how successful you are or how far along the journey you are. I talk to people who haven't started a business yet and are just on the taking the leap through to, well, I don't know. I've been doing it for 10 years, still have them to me. And then hugely successful people who are still doing the same thing. And it's like, when will this end? When madness end?
Amanda Crawford (18:50):
Oh, I know exactly what you mean. Some of the most successful senior executive women. And it's just you hear that doubt that, and I mean, I'm just constantly curious about that and the source of it. And I think this is where that peer support and that sort of peer mentoring and kind of breaking down some of that stigma around or just really highlighting that we do have that thinking, but also questioning why.
Danielle Lewis (19:23):
Yeah, yeah, totally. And what does it serve? What does it serve? And if you're having, I think too, I'm really into, I love coaching, I love mentoring. I think it's just asking for help and it can take many different forms. So I was having a mental breakdown a few weeks ago and I was like, but I'm getting really good at the self-awareness piece so I can go, okay, this isn't how you normally are, so what do we need to do to fix this? So literally that day it was book a therapist, book a kinesiologist, took my partner out to dinner, booked a session with a girlfriend for lunch. I was like, alright, I just need to verbal diarrhea my life at everyone with different perspectives. And I came out of it and it was every person said the exact same thing. They're like, you're just not backing yourself. You are awesome. Got to back yourself. Just keep going. And I was like, yeah, it's just me being an idiot talking down to myself. You often, sometimes it's just you need those cheerleaders in your corner or somebody that can just remind you or ask you the questions to get you to remind yourself that you were totally doing okay.
Amanda Crawford (20:34):
I love that. And I just love that you've got that plan. I think that's something that everyone needs to have. As you said, it's that awareness, but it's also that owning the fact that asking for help is not a sign of weakness through a topic. And I've presented, I've run workshops on this, I've spoken on this, I've written articles on it. And so I call it putting on the oxygen mask.
Danielle Lewis (21:01):
Yes. Oh my God, I love that. Yeah,
Amanda Crawford (21:04):
Just we know that. We cognitively know that. And I've sat on planes and thought about, especially once I've had kids thinking about, okay, can I actually do it? Like, oh no, I have to do it. Even though your brain's, everything's screaming them first, but you also know you passed out. You are no good to anyone. So again, this is a conversation I have, particularly at senior leadership level and within teams because it's all that modeling as well is what's it going to take? And if you don't look after yourself, then if it's coming from this place of give and support and doing and working hard, whatever's driving you to that point where you need to stop, it's important enough for you to want to do it to the best of your ability. So that naturally means you have to prioritize yourself. And that's not being selfish. It's not a sign of weakness, it's just smart, smart, sensible.
Danielle Lewis (22:06):
Yeah. I dunno where we got this martyr mentality.
Amanda Crawford (22:11):
I dunno. Yeah, overwhelming exhaustion. Burnout as a badge of honor.
Danielle Lewis (22:17):
Totally. And even I like now that we're talking less about hustle culture before it was, I remember in the early days of scrunch my co-founder being like, if you're tired, have a cup of coffee. Go, go, go. And it was all this very masculine energy, very how hard can we hustle? How big can this be? But it's just not sustainable. And yeah, I think without a little bit of self-awareness, you can get yourself into real trouble.
Amanda Crawford (22:51):
Oh, definitely. And the reality is that most people who are working like that are assholes.
Danielle Lewis (22:58):
Totally.
Amanda Crawford (22:59):
And it's not always entirely their fault, but if you're at that point, you just can't. It's just the smallest things. We know those people where something really small and have this exaggerated response to it. But that's because we don't know all of the stresses and what it's like an escalator. It's like riding the escalator, each new trigger, just taking you higher and higher until you explode. And the thing that makes you explode is generally disproportionate. Yeah.
Danielle Lewis (23:32):
Oh my God, yes. That is so true. So before I forget, I want to ask a question because you mentioned when you were talking about your journey that you were doing accounting for and you said it's interesting having the complete flip view of business in the beginning. So obviously usually when you start a business it's on build, build, build. What are all the things they've got to do to scale? But so interesting that you were in a position where you could see where people went wrong. Did you notice any, I'm just super interested in that perspective. Did you notice any key themes come out of that experience?
Amanda Crawford (24:11):
I think probably one of the key things, and this is something that obviously I'm now carrying with me, is that scaling to almost too fast and outgrowing your systems and your people. So the bookkeeper who becomes a CFO, who actually doesn't have the skills to operate at that sort of strategic level, for example, and then your systems where you had a simple debtors system and you've grown. And I mean I saw businesses fail because they double counted their debtors. Just not having good systems going out there and overselling and then not being able to deliver on the product. So really I think that whole visibility, so this is where, and this is my accounting nerdy background, definitely cus your
Danielle Lewis (25:04):
Wisdom, give us your wisdom.
Amanda Crawford (25:07):
But it really is that whole, you can't underestimate that function. And as you said, understanding the business, the pieces get the expertise. If you don't, having a really good advisor understanding enough about your numbers, and I know you understand that and it is that where are your limits as well? So how much can you genuinely afford to invest in your time and money? What's the tipping point? And if you assume that the worst case scenario, then worst case it again to say, are you prepared to, because really as you know, because
Danielle Lewis (25:49):
Entrepreneurs tend to be optimists too, we tend to,
Amanda Crawford (25:53):
And that's great and you do need that. So if your tendency, and this is where actually I've got some really good profiling tools that can help give you insight into this, we
Danielle Lewis (26:02):
Will link you up.
Amanda Crawford (26:03):
Perfect. Do that. Because understanding that you are in that head space and you do need that big picture, innovation, optimism because that's where that energy and drive comes from. And actually the inspiration leading others, you can't then under support I guess the other functions. So that particularly that measurement piece, just understanding if you need help around timing and delivery, which is one of my areas that I'm definitely need support in. I'm pretty good on the measurement side of things. So that's that accounting kind of piece. And then just that communication sort of all comes into it. So the question I would say is how are you going to ensure that you actually understand your business? It's fine. You can be out there driving business development, sales, delivery, where's that backend support and the visibility around your performance.
Danielle Lewis (27:02):
And I think almost what I'm hearing as well is don't forget to sit down and think about all the things you hate doing. I know this for myself. I'm a salesperson by trade. I love being out there talking to people about all the things, hate being on delivery. But if you don't sit down and understand, all right, who is doing the numbers? Who is doing the delivery, who is doing customer service, who is doing this or sucking it up? And I'm doing that and that at the moment, but I do have those other two things outsourced, just actually stopping and assessing the load on the business, the health of the business, how are all of those puzzle pieces fitting together and is it really working in each one of those areas? I'm being honest with
Amanda Crawford (27:48):
Yourself as well. And I was just going to say, I was going to make exactly that same point, is just that brutal honesty to know and to say and to realize and that it's okay because again, it's that whole people don't want to fail who wants to fail. But it's that twisting that mindset around it to say that they're all still opportunities and to learn. And if you don't do it early enough, I've seen what happens because people, particularly if you do have that optimism, it can turn into a little bit of a bury the head in the sand piece as well that oh, it will be okay. Yes, I know you want to believe that, but what are you actually doing
Danielle Lewis (28:34):
About it to ensure that?
Amanda Crawford (28:36):
Yeah,
Danielle Lewis (28:36):
Yeah, totally. And that's it. And it's not to say that there aren't hard times and that sometimes things get a little hairy or things don't quite work out to the scale or at the speed that you had hoped. But if you don't sit down and figure out how to adjust, it's really interesting. I know being on the, so we haven't raised capital since 2019, but we were very much back then on the hamster wheel of raising capital. So it was very much the norm to outspend because you had gone out to raise capital to be growing as quickly as possible. But as we've had financial crisis, pandemics, the way to run business, the access to capital has completely changed. So you really do have to actually monitor how things are going and making sure that if the market changes or your strategy changes, that the whole business gets on the bus if you like, and that you are actually checking in to make sure things are okay. And if they're not moving as quickly as you can to make sure they will be, not just, it'll be okay. It'll be okay.
Amanda Crawford (29:47):
And yes, as I said, that's what we want. I think Danielle, you've kind of hit the nail on the head and I mean I would sum it up as being it's that time in the business on the business, and you have to make that time. And when people don't spend it on the business, it's probably because often because they're really passionate about what they do, so they're either delivering or selling. But it's that, as you said, making that time, investing it and not that false economy of I need to be out there selling and delivering. So that is as critical.
Danielle Lewis (30:27):
And people talk about that I love in the business, on the business, I've heard people say to the CEO O time, don't forget to be the CEO of your business. Because usually if you're in a small business or a startup, you are doing both. You have the title CEO, but you are out there selling or you are doing delivery or whatever it is, you are still the one responsible for that title or for that task. So you have to make sure you're doing it.
Amanda Crawford (30:56):
And I think that it's, again, these are all kind of time management 1 0 1, but it's that booking the timing, committing to that as if it was a meeting with someone external, do what you have to do, bring someone in. I think this is where again, having, even if it's just as a casual type relationship from a, it doesn't necessarily have to be your board. And people will often set up, say advisory boards and so forth, but again, the benefit that they bring is the structure and the committed time. So I think that if in yourself that you can't commit to that time, if you just put it in your calendar, then make it a coffee, catch up with someone, find that sort of trusted advisor or they don't even have to have expertise. They just have to be probably a good listener more than anything. And this is where again, people find coaching so valuable because it's that committed time and space which is focused on, well, whatever you need it to be focused on. So whatever structures you have to put in it is about process. And even
Danielle Lewis (32:04):
I love too, I was about to say when you said find someone that might be just a good listener, but also a good questioner as well. And I love how you circled back to that's where potentially coaches or that person that can carve out that time. I also find coaches amazing at asking you questions to actually make you stop and question your own bullshit.
Amanda Crawford (32:23):
Oh, totally. And that's my favorite thing to do. I love the moment where I'll ask that question and you can see the person on the other side just going, damnit.
Danielle Lewis (32:33):
Yes, exactly. Exactly.
(32:35):
But it's so true. I love that so much because I've been in so sales situations and presentations where you get asked the tough questions, but you are so thinking on your feet, putting on a show that you almost do fall for your own bullshit over time. And I'm like, no. And that's what I love when someone asks me, I'm like, oh, I actually use my brain and think about what I genuinely think about this situation, what I think is the best for me, the business, our team, our customers. And then I'm like, okay, maybe I've been making the decision from up in the cloud in my big picture, fancy presentation and not actually down in the reality.
Amanda Crawford (33:19):
And so for you, how do you create those moments and opportunities, that space of that type of thinking, which is different from what you just naturally do. We do all have a natural place that we like to work where we're in flow and all that sort of stuff. And like you said, I think that idea of write down all of the things, well, particularly the things that you don't like to do, the ones that you find hardest
Danielle Lewis (33:45):
Because
Amanda Crawford (33:46):
They're the ones you're going to have to have the most discipline around. So totally schedule that time in or whatever it is that you need to do. But yeah, get the help. That's the other thing too, is how can you find that support and there's so many options.
Danielle Lewis (33:59):
Yeah, and that's the thing too, like you say now, we don't need to have our ego and we don't need to worry about asking for help. And not only that, there are so many different options of people that you can actually talk to or seek out depending on what it is you're looking for
Amanda Crawford (34:17):
Or even outsourcing, I think mean if we look at the whole Covid pandemic and just the disruption of the last two and a half years, I think some of the gifts that I see from that are that shake up. So firstly, I think that whole questioning of burnout as a badge of honor and the hustle as a badge of honor, I think it's kind of helping to reset that. It's definitely opened up a conversation about wellbeing and particularly mental wellbeing that is just so, so needed. So I think that that's a gift as well, but also flexible work. It's been the challenge, but it is also the gift. And as I said, it is about finding and tapping into resources. It doesn't matter where they are, it's not about having to set up an office space to build out that capacity because you just find the people and everyone now knows how in some way to work virtually. So it's kind of less excuses I think.
Danielle Lewis (35:20):
Totally. And I love that now too, that we do have such a strong freelance culture that you don't have to jump into a huge commitment of outsourcing. So you don't actually have to hire a full-time team member straight from day one, especially if you are smaller and it's like, you know what? I just need 10 hours and that would mean these two tasks and that would just give me so much more mental capacity to work on the business. There's so many people available like that in different marketplaces where you can be connected to them, which actually helps you, I think financially make that call a little bit earlier.
Amanda Crawford (35:57):
Oh, totally. I think that that's such a good point. And that is the sort of thing I think startups particularly thinking about, and again, this is one of the really valuable takeaways that I got from working professional services is that your commodities time, so you put a value on it. And again, the number of people I talk to about, well, where are you spending your time and people doing tasks that someone else can be doing, but it's this sort of, well, I don't want to be seen to or I don't want to give that to someone else. But at the end of it, it's pure economics. If your time is worth a hundred dollars an hour and you can pay someone $20 an hour to do the same thing, like you said, outsource that X number of hours, that's going to free you up. And my guess is that those things are probably the things that float your boat anyway.
Danielle Lewis (36:52):
Totally. We'll make money for your business.
Amanda Crawford (36:55):
Exactly. But again, this is where simple business fundamentals, if you can be charging $200 and paying someone 20 and change the numbers accordingly, then that's where scale comes from as well. Because we know mean particularly in a consulting type business where your time is your commodity, then it absolutely caps out. So unless you think of ways to scale, then you are only ever going to have X amount of potential revenue.
Danielle Lewis (37:30):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think that's even non-con consulting businesses, if you just think of your capacity for how many hours you can physically work in a day without wanting to bury your head in the sand, then you've got to think that way anyway. You've got to think of how productive you can be in the amount of time that you physically have energy to work. And that's going to be different for everybody. There's absolutely people out there who love a 12 hour day, but that's not reality for a lot of people, especially people that have families to look after where sometimes their time is even broken up a little bit more. So it becomes around, I might not be selling my time for money, but I only have a finite amount of time to do my job in. So I think that's something super important to look at.
Amanda Crawford (38:19):
So true. And I think that the good question to ask yourself in that moment or just in appraising that is why am I doing this?
Danielle Lewis (38:27):
And
Amanda Crawford (38:27):
Then is this the best use of my time?
Danielle Lewis (38:31):
Yes. The old letting go of control.
Amanda Crawford (38:34):
Yes. Oh, absolutely. And then yes, if you were sort of in that coaching conversation, the next sort of line of questioning is, okay, and then what's it going to take? Because a choice, I mean if you are choosing but acknowledge own the choice that you making, that you are choosing to continue to do everything when you could be outsourcing or whatever it is. Then when you're saying yes to that, what are you saying no to?
Danielle Lewis (39:05):
Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. And yeah, it's really interesting that once there's a name for this exercise as well, you'll know it. It's that quadrant of important, urgent, urgent. Again, those kind of things. It's sort of assess your tasks on all metrics, I think. Are they high value? Are they low value? Could somebody else be doing them? Are they growing the business? Are they valuable to the business? Are they actually important or is it just someone yelling at me? And I don't like that. I think that, again, it's just that sit down and actually get out of your head and get out of the business and look at things objectively then. And I love what you just said about owning the decision, because you're right, sometimes we will hold onto tasks that probably shouldn't, but there might be a reason. But don't berate yourself around that. If you make that decision, own that decision for whatever reason it is, you can't do that task and feel crap about it all the time and be having that negative self talk. I love that. Own it or get rid of it, make the decision either way and move forward.
Amanda Crawford (40:15):
Oh, definitely. And remembering that choosing to do nothing is still making a decision. Yes.
Danielle Lewis (40:24):
Love that. Oh, God triggered.
Amanda Crawford (40:27):
Yes. So I think that's one that usually gets out. Yeah, okay. And I'm the same, but again, it's just owning that by not taking action. So it's that. I mean, we all know those people who every conversation, they're making the same complaint, whether it's about their dog, the partner or whatever it is where they live. And you hear it so many times. And then, I mean, I kind of lose tolerance for that after a while because it's like, well, okay, well what are you going to do about it?
Danielle Lewis (40:58):
Yeah, totally. You can't live in, it's so miserable living in that state of limbo where you don't make that decision. Yeah. I must admit, that's a big frustration work for me too. I'm like, I just hate having the same conversation with people over and over again. Come on.
Amanda Crawford (41:18):
And I'll actually used those words just to say, look, I actually can't have this conversation with you. Or Yeah, I'm actually kind of over having this conversation. What are you going to do differently?
Danielle Lewis (41:30):
Yeah, I know. And isn't it funny? So we equal parts need to call ourselves on our own crap and people on their own
Amanda Crawford (41:37):
Crap
Danielle Lewis (41:39):
And
Amanda Crawford (41:40):
Find those people, like you said, who will ask you those hard questions or turn the mirror around the other way and help you realize that in those moments that you need them.
Danielle Lewis (41:50):
Yeah. So another question I've got for you, based on the story that you took us through at the start, and now, not to harp on the life change in the beginning of 2020, but I guess you went through that you were starting a business, you have three kids, you've had the different career progression, you decided to step out of another business. I'm hearing change and I know how hard running a business is. What did you do in those moments to be okay to I guess get through to the next stage to help yourself, I guess take a breath to relax and know that everything is going to be okay?
Amanda Crawford (42:41):
Well, I can't deny that there may have been some red wine moments.
Danielle Lewis (42:46):
I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I know,
Amanda Crawford (42:50):
But we also know that that's not the be all
Danielle Lewis (42:53):
Answer. It doesn't help in the long term. No,
Amanda Crawford (42:55):
That's right. Only
Danielle Lewis (42:56):
That's
Amanda Crawford (42:56):
Right. But there's also an element of, again, it's a decision and owning that and a consciousness of it. And it's not necessarily about, I guess it is always easy to make those excuses and so forth, but it's also knowing where those limits are, but it's also cutting yourself some slack. I figured that's the thing. And to be honest, I've got such an amazing support network, and it's those people who, if I'm not saying it to myself, who will just tell me how it is
(43:37):
And turn the heat up on it if I'm not seeing things clearly because just so much fog at different times and just angry and trying to navigate through all of that. So having people who can help you make sense of it. And if you don't have those people in your network, like you said, go, there's people out there, they've made careers of helping people through this stuff. I mean, I've got a naturopath, so she's amazing. So she's a sounding board and it's the Headspace piece plus just the physical side of it. So it really is that whole oxygen mask piece going, okay, I've got to get through this. I can't end up rocking in the corner in a heap or even though I've just many times felt like that's, I just want to curl up, just want to curl up and just cry in a corner. But then it's
Danielle Lewis (44:39):
In there.
Amanda Crawford (44:41):
And I a bit challenge anyone out there to tell me that they haven't.
Danielle Lewis (44:46):
Exactly.
Amanda Crawford (44:48):
And different people in their own ways and for different reasons. I think for me, having three kids, it is just one of those things where even when you don't feel like it, you just got to get up and put one foot in front of the other. And if you haven't picked up already, I love all my little quick quips and quotes and whatever. So another one, another one
Danielle Lewis (45:08):
Do yes. Well,
Amanda Crawford (45:10):
It's just easy. It's like I brain, there's so much going on. You just need something short and sharp that pops into your mind at the right moment. But really it then becomes about the giant baby steps and what can you do? And it really is said, just stop. You've got to stop and take that time lists loads and loads of lists, relists and reprioritizing, and just taking those moments to step back and say, what is it that I need to do? And I've got a quote up on my wall. It's a Simon Sinek one, which is if we think of everything we have to do, we feel overwhelmed. If we do the one thing we need to do, we make progress.
Danielle Lewis (45:49):
I love that.
Amanda Crawford (45:51):
And my current intent word that's driving me, and I went on a retreat recently and we had to make kind of a little bracelet thing, so you use the letter punches onto the metal. So my word on this is it's progress, but it's actually both the noun and the verb. So it's progress and progress.
Danielle Lewis (46:20):
That's awesome. I love that.
Amanda Crawford (46:22):
So it is, we've just got to find whatever it is we need in those moments to just take that step forward.
Danielle Lewis (46:31):
And
Amanda Crawford (46:33):
I think ultimately underpin with that optimism that it will be okay, this too shall pass. And you've got to hold to that belief because otherwise you do end up in the corner and
Danielle Lewis (46:44):
Totally, I know. And it is so easy, even in so going through all of the different things that we've all gone through in the years, but even just day to day, I still have those days where you sit down in the morning or the night before and you write out all of the tasks, and then I look at the list and I'm like, oh my God, I don't have enough time to do everything.
Amanda Crawford (47:08):
I can't do it.
Danielle Lewis (47:09):
So I've gotten to, I need to get everything out of my head, so I write down the big list. But then if I do, I love my post-it notes, as you all know. But if I can only fit one thing on a post-it note, so then I go, cool, what's the one thing? So then I just keep looking at that rather than looking at the whole list because I just think sometimes it's all a little bit easy to get too much, and we need those strategies. We do need those strategies so that we don't sit and rock in the corner.
Amanda Crawford (47:41):
Yeah, I love that. And it is such a simple one, Daniel, but you've just, I think now with that as a process and having that consistency in it, and as you said, because we do get so overwhelmed and you think about it all, but it's like Right, capturing it because we need to get it out of our head. But then as you said, just that keep coming back to, I often work with three, so I'll just work with what's the top three? But then I think it's even better if you can just go just the one thing, what's the one thing I need to do now to that? And then it's also not, and this is sort of another recent insight I've had myself. So I've had this mantra of focus on finishing and when I had this kind of progress insight was that that's actually quite limiting because we are never finished.
Danielle Lewis (48:37):
And
Amanda Crawford (48:37):
So it's sort of almost, you set yourself up for failure because if you've got that long list and then you look at it and go, oh, all you focus on is what we still have to do, what we haven't done.
Danielle Lewis (48:49):
Exactly.
Amanda Crawford (48:51):
And that's when, as I said before, it's taking that time to reflect and acknowledge and give ourselves a pat on the back for what we have done.
Danielle Lewis (49:00):
And I love that too because you're right, it is never done. Literally as you cross one thing off, you've thought of two other things to tack on the end, and now the piece of paper's run down and I hear a piece of paper, oh my God, so true, so true. Well, let's leave these fabulous spark members, spark community with a final word of wisdom. So thinking about and reflecting on your journey in business, any piece of advice that you might give an aspiring business owner or a business owner who's in the trenches right now who's feeling like it's all a little bit much,
Amanda Crawford (49:41):
Find your support crew.
Danielle Lewis (49:43):
I love that.
Amanda Crawford (49:45):
I think it's funny, when you were asking me that question, my brain's rattling through a whole bunch of stuff, but I've got a hundred
Danielle Lewis (49:50):
Things you could do.
Amanda Crawford (49:52):
But I think thinking about what you shared, what you talked about, and that question you asked me, which was really quite a challenging one, thinking about getting through the time that would be absolutely. You think about tying that back into those business failures that I've seen way too many of it's not having the right people. So it comes down to that support crew, really, those people who can help you with that brutal honesty of where you're at and make you realize it's okay wherever you're at and whatever you need to do. Okay.
Danielle Lewis (50:36):
Oh, you are incredible, Amanda. Thank you. Bye back at so much.
Amanda Crawford (50:42):
You are welcome. Lovely to see you.
Danielle Lewis (50:44):
You too. Thank you for spending your time with the smart community. That was absolutely incredible. Thank you for being so honest and sharing your stories and your words of wisdom with everybody.
Amanda Crawford (50:55):
Oh, well hopefully there's something, a nugget in there for everyone.
Danielle Lewis (51:00):
Absolutely.
